A New Pride Flag?

[ChrisR]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/13/health/new-pride-flag-colors-trnd/index.html

Really?

[ChrisR]

On the other hand, it looks like the folks at Skittles - you know - "Taste the Rainbow" - have gone 180 degrees in the opposite direction and have issued packages of all white Skittles. It's a world gone mad.

http://time.com/4818777/white-skittles-lgbt-pride-month/

[Chris James]

I find this new version of the pride flag a little absurd. The original flag celebrated diversity, not skin color. I don't imagine there are many LGBTQ people who are purple or red so the flag was just brightly decorative like the people it represents.

The new flag speaks specifically to race because of the black and brown stripes, the original was not about race. Why is it when we have a well accepted image for diversity that someone has to come along and make it about race. Is this the objective?

We already have multiple flags that speak to the Black Lives Matter movement, although I think the black flag with the white fist is a little ridiculous and is obviously meant to be confrontational. Given the chance, I would refuse to display the pride flag in this new incarnation.  

[Cynus]

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment, though I'm truly on the fence with this one.

I can see a purpose for it, whether or not this is the right way to address the specific issue or not is something else entirely, but there is a tremendous amount of racism within the LGBT community. There are a lot of people who reject potential partners because they're "Asian" or "Black", and on no other basis, purely because of stereotypes associated with those communities (For example, it is commonly said that Asians are small. I know for a fact this is certainly not always the case ;-) ). I understand preferences, but to reject someone solely on the context of one's race seems a little absurd. Maybe, regardless of what happens with the flag, we can use this as a teaching moment to remind ourselves to be watchful of racism within our own communities?

Again, not necessarily in support of the new flag, but I can see some reasons for it to exist. Even if I do think race shouldn't be an issue, it already IS an issue in our community.

[Addym Kehris]

6 hours ago, Cynus said:

I can see a purpose for it, whether or not this is the right way to address the specific issue or not is something else entirely, but there is a tremendous amount of racism within the LGBT community.

Huh. I'm surprised to hear this. I've visited many gay communities across the country over the decades and hadn't noticed any racism. Preferences, surely. And yes, I suppose there are some stereotypes, such as the Asian thing mentioned. But I've never considered that racism, perhaps because I've always subscribed to the following definition of racism:

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior"

I've always seen a good mix of ethnicity in the places I visited, and always witnessed those ethnicities intermingling quite amicably. So, I'm with Chris on this one. If I ever have occasion to display a Pride Flag, it will be the old style and not this new abomination. Hasn't the LGBTQ community always been about acceptance? My experience says it has. Frankly, I see this as a slap in the face of all those who have paved the way for GAY rights and equality.

[colinian]

A group of us got together and discussed this idea. Doug (he's Chinese) and Mike (he's Japanese) and Ron (he's black) and Chris and Steve (both are white like me). Our opinions were unanimous.

Don't change the flag.

Both Doug and Mike said the black and brown stripes aren't inclusive for Asians. They think adding a pale yellow-brown stripe would be ridiculous. We agreed with them. Then we wondered, what about transexuals? Shouldn't they have their own stripe, too? Lesbians? Bisexuals? Asexuals? Intrasexuals? Hermaphrodites? We all think adding any stripes to the flag is ridiculous.

Like Charlie Brown would say, "Good grief!"

Like Ron said, "Stop, already!" That's a good plan.

Colin 

 

[ChrisR]

Funny how things happen. This evening I stumbled upon a short video about the Rainbow Flag origins and creator. I definitely prefer this tale to what some people seem intent on turning it into.

https://www.greatbigstory.com/stories/a-gift-from-the-sky/?xrs=CNNHP

 

[Addym Kehris]

Nice to know, ChrisR. thanks for sharing.

[colinian]

That image of the rainbow stripe flag covering the street from the bay for so many city blocks is fantastic. How great it would have been to be there that day.

Colin   

[Merkin]

Thanks Chris R for that wonderful bit of film, it brought a tear to my eye.  I wasn't there in SF in '77 for Gilbert's unveiling, but as soon as we learned of the flag here in the east we embraced it.  I remember thinking 'That's what Dorothy would have wanted for us!'.

[Cynus]

19 hours ago, Addym Kehris said:

Huh. I'm surprised to hear this. I've visited many gay communities across the country over the decades and hadn't noticed any racism. Preferences, surely. And yes, I suppose there are some stereotypes, such as the Asian thing mentioned. But I've never considered that racism, perhaps because I've always subscribed to the following definition of racism:

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior"

I've always seen a good mix of ethnicity in the places I visited, and always witnessed those ethnicities intermingling quite amicably. So, I'm with Chris on this one. If I ever have occasion to display a Pride Flag, it will be the old style and not this new abomination. Hasn't the LGBTQ community always been about acceptance? My experience says it has. Frankly, I see this as a slap in the face of all those who have paved the way for GAY rights and equality.

Again, just to clarify, I was playing devil's advocate on the issue. I have heard the stereotyping, but I otherwise have no direct experience with the racism itself, I've only heard it secondhand from those who have. 

I fully admit that I could be dead wrong. :)

I think I've swung fully into the leave the flag as it is club, anyway, but I still think there's points to be made. 

[Addym Kehris]

Fair enough, Cynus. It's only fair to acknowledge that even our culture can contain small minded people who react only to what they see and, for whatever reason, choose to posture as the superior people they aren't. I'm just glad I've never encountered it in my experiences among LGBTQ folks. I'm the sort who'd probably get hurt because I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut when I see crap like that.

I suppose I should go looking to buy a small version of the Pride Flag before it becomes unavailable.

[Joe]

I agree with Chris James.

I have next door neighbors with whom I routinely and regularly disagree on every subject save, perhaps, the weather.  If I were to bring this subject up for discussion with them, they would immediately point to the absence of a white stripe and bring up all the usual nonsense about reverse discrimination and political correctitude.  I would never bring the subject up.  I called Trump a carnival barking flim-flam man and was rewarded by a sniff and several days of neighborly silence.

Still in all, I think we should just leave the flag alone.  It's beautiful as it is, implies a connection with the earth, and is already a  successful rallying symbol.  We ought not try to add new colors, that are not of the rainbow, in an effort to cover every possible point of view out there.  There's not enough room and, I suspect, not enough colors.

Let's leave it alone.  Except, of course, to fly it.

[Merkin]

7 hours ago, Joe said:

 

Still in all, I think we should just leave the flag alone.  It's beautiful as it is, implies a connection with the earth, and is already a  successful rallying symbol.  We ought not try to add new colors, that are not of the rainbow, in an effort to cover every possible point of view out there.  There's not enough room and, I suspect, not enough colors.

Let's leave it alone.  Except, of course, to fly it.

Well said, Joe.