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Nick

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  1. Dear Jamie et al Yes, I agree with almost every word of what you write, Jamie. I want to think some more about your point two, though your caveat about some religions having objectionable practices probably takes care of what niggles. I see you live in Europe, as I do. So you will know that the stance of the Church vis-a-vis homosexuality is not nearly so homophobic as it seems to be in the States. I read about all these pulpit rants Stateside, and I can honestly say that I have never heard one in Europe. Sure, there are those documents and declarations from on high that tell us to put our dicks away, but its okay for us to love another guy chastely, but in practice, I have seen far less real homophobia among Christians than among, say, football supporters. Priests, catechists &c all know about the Church's official teaching, sure, but they apply it with a light and gentle hand in my experience. Perhaps some of those reading have had other experiences: I can only speak of my own. This suggests to me that homophobia is not the result of a religious attitude fundamentally, but is a 'naturally occurring' or secular prejudice, for which people who believe various religions adduce different arguments drawn from their bible or koran or vedas or whatever to support. People use their religion, therefore to provide support for their own prejudices or desires. This goes as much for crusaders, conqustadores and terrorists as it does for homophobes. On another different, but related subject; if the fight between Bush and Kerry had been fought in Europe, there is not the slightest doubt that Kerry would have won a landslide. Very best wishes, Nick
  2. Dear JamieofIcaria (Good story, by the way) You raise some really good points in your posting, and actually I agree with a lot of them. I was raised a Catholic, too, though in me it 'took', and I've done an awful lot of thinking over the years about how to reconcile the two. In all religious debates, one has to be really careful not to simply heap on to all who believe in a particular religious system today all the unpleasant things that all who share the basic theories have done to others in the past. This form of argument is done far too much these days; in philosophy it's called the 'ad hominem' argument; X can't be true, because look what wankers A & B were who shared the same beliefs. In Catholic terms, Catholicism is bollocks because Mary Tudor of England burnt Protestants, witches were burnt in Germany, and Richard the Lionheart went on the crusades. That's the same as saying that atheism is bollocks because Stalin butchered millions of his own people; I wouldn't want to make that argument, simply because it is a weak one, in both regards. As human beings are concerned, whatever they believe, you simply can't rely on people to be sensible even with regard to their own beliefs. Human nature is fundamentally unreliable. The ad hominem argument doesn't work. Now clearly there are many people who are both gay and who believe in God; I am one. And I have never burnt anyone, nor do I even remotely wish to do so. Especially not you (and especially if you keep on writing) :D In fact, (can of worms here??) I hate the whole capital punishment thing from beginning to end. It's one reason why I'm glad to live in Europe. I can only speak for Catholic theology. You're right in saying that Catholics have no problem with a person 'being' gay. That's where (as far as I can see) we differ from fundamentalist Protestants (feel free to differ, guys; I want to learn if I'm wrong). Thus, a Catholic could never say those appalling words 'God hates fags' and still claim to be a Catholic. We believe it is what you DO that makes a difference. Hence your point, which you make very clearly. And here's where I really do agree with you. What comes next is not articulated clearly in Catholic theology. OK, so we're gay, it's not our 'fault'. What happens if you actually dare to do something about it; i.e. have sex with another man? Ow, ow, ow! This is not consistent. It is a clear principle in Catholic theology that what you cannot help is not your fault, and therefore is not a sin. But how often do you hear this said? Oh, I've gone on long enough; sorry, brothers (and interested sisters). Lots of love. Nick Turner
  3. Another useful book, especially for those with a Catholic background is Gareth Moore's A Question of Truth, published by Continuum, ISBN 0-8264-5949-8 Best wishes, Nick Turner
  4. Thanks, Ena; glad you enjoyed it. Nick
  5. Dear Dude, Thanks for your kind remarks; I hope you enjoy the rest of Dancing as much, and that everyone else does too. It's been fun to write. Best wishes to all, Nick[/i]
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