Jump to content
Chris James

Watching the Immigration?

Recommended Posts

Our less than illustrious new president has stirred up the hornet's nest with his new executive orders on immigration from what he sees as the seven deadly nations around the world. (read that as Muslim nations).

Foreign persons from these locations are being refused admittance to the Unites States. ( although he has decided to give foreign Christians a slightly better deal). This includes foreigners who have green cards and have been residing here for years. If they were overseas doing their jobs for American companies....well, too bad, they won't be allowed back. Typical of this condition were two Muslim gentlemen who were on flights into New York on Friday. They were detained without warrant, not allowed to see their lawyers or family, and may at this point be deported back to their country of origin.

The ACLU and several other organizations have filed suit in a N.Y. Federal Court demanding immediate release of these men and a lifting of these sanctions.  Less than a week in office and Trump is already facing legal opposition. At the base of this issue is that no one on Trump's staff seems to have the legal knowledge of what a mess this would cause. Not that Trump would listen to advice, he seems to be on a roll and creating a disaster of his own making.

Trump started off the week with his wall order, which will cost the American taxpayers about 25 billion dollars...before cost overruns double that price. But since Mexico will not play Trump's game he plans a 20 percent tax on all imports from Mexico. Financial experts feel this will cost American business owners up tp 500 billion dollars in revenue. That will add to the howl of indignation.

And finally, Trump insists we resume building the Keystone XL pipeline. With a twist, he insists all the material to build the pipeline must be made in the USA. Sorry to tell him, that industry doesn't exist anymore. If only US pipe is used it might take 20 years to get a large enough supply out of American mills. No matter that the movement of oil from Alberta to Gulf of Mexico processing facilities isn't needed to meet demands in the country, we have a surplus. But the Big Oil plans are to put the processed oil on ships and sell it overseas for larger profits...all paid for by the American taxpayer.

All this sounds like a typical Trump bunch of nonsense. At some point I expect the courts to shut down some of these things, or at least cripple the big money grab for Trump and his business friends. Next month we will see a new phase of the Trump Follies as the court in D.C. hears the case against the new Trump hotel. It seems Trump & Company owe the contractors about 2 million for work done under pressure and they responded with a mechanic's lean on the property. Stay tuned for the clash.  

 

Link to post
13 hours ago, Chris James said:

Foreign persons from these locations are being refused admittance to the Unites States. ( although he has decided to give foreign Christians a slightly better deal). This includes foreigners who have green cards and have been residing here for years. If they were overseas doing their jobs for American companies....well, too bad, they won't be allowed back. Typical of this condition were two Muslim gentlemen who were on flights into New York on Friday. They were detained without warrant, not allowed to see their lawyers or family, and may at this point be deported back to their country of origin.

Now wait just a minute! Our illustrious chief-bombast/emperor/dictator/leader-for-life has stated/propounded/blurted/tweeted that this Executive Order is not anti-Muslim! So, if it isn't, he could not give Syrian and other Christians any kind of a better deal! It would definitely be anti-Muslim. Nah, he wouldn't do that! Would he?

Colin :icon_geek:

Link to post

 That's the thing. That's exactly the point. We're all immigrants here on this continent, us or our ancestors. Every last one of us.  - Gee W.

 


Well, that does pose an interesting suggestion.  The Trump is supposed to fly to England, or was until he got in a kerfuffle with Prince Charles.  But, if he does, we should be able to prevent him from returning: he's an immigrant, like all of us, but who knows which of his ancestors might have flirted with Islam in the past?  So, until Homeland Security can vet him, thoroughly vet him, including checking his tax returns to see if any charitable donations went to any organization that include any Muslim members, I think he should be kept in isolation in a small room, perhaps on Ellis Island.  I think they have some abandoned buildings there that would be just right for him.

C

 

Link to post

I like that idea, Cole. Nothing like a president who knows nothing. But he has Steve Bannon, the right wing tea party lunatic to tell him what to think.

But wanted to share this. Trump's immigration ban is supposed to save us from terrorists sneaking into the country. Well I have news....they are already here. Just look at the statistics in the following article:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/many-terrorist-attacks-u-carried-150056041.html

 

Without a doubt the most dangerous terrorists in this country are Americans...U.S. citizens.

Link to post

There's an article on The Onion (considering the source, read with tongue firmly in cheek and BS filter turned on) you can read here. Here's the title and a brief extract:

Quote

From http://www.theonion.com/article/trump-deploys-national-guard-press-conference-stan-55134

Trump Deploys National Guard To Press Conference For Standing Ovation

NEWS IN BRIEF January 24, 2017

VOL 53 ISSUE 03 · Politics · Politicians · Government · Media · Donald Trump

WASHINGTON—Activating the reserve military forces to assist in the urgent mission,
President Donald Trump reportedly deployed the National Guard to a press conference
Tuesday in order to provide him with a standing ovation...

www.snopes.com and www.politifact.com don't have comments on this story yet.

Colin  :icon_geek:

Link to post

A while back, C-Span did an excellent series on the history on major rulings of the U.S. Supreme Court. [ http://landmarkcases.c-span.org/ ] In the opening segment they examined the case that established the Court as the ultimate arbiter of the law in this country, something that is not really stated in the Constitution. Unfortunately, the Constitution does establish the President as the ultimate enforcer. I am concerned that at some point soon those two doctrines are going to collide. And the 150-member Supreme Court security force is slightly outnumbered.

What's the old curse? "May you lead an interesting life!"

Link to post
On 1/30/2017 at 1:39 AM, Chris James said:

I hope we all know that The Onion is nothing but satire, humor sometimes at its best. The original "fake news" site has always been so good it almost sounds real, and that is often scary.

That's the reason for my suggestion "considering the source, read with tongue firmly in cheek and BS filter turned on." This is my kind of fake news! At first I thought it was funny, but then I thought about it and realized it's depressing and something I wouldn't put past the Donald.

Colin  :icon_geek:

Link to post

Little late to the conversation but...

I'm not an immigrant. I was born here. Most of my ancestors from about 1700 onward were born here too. Not a lick of Native American ancestry in there, either.

At what point do I get to call myself "American"? At some point, we stop being from the old country and start being from, you know, here. Where is that point?

I'm absolutely opposed to what trump is doing, but man, people don't like to acknowledge their American heritage. My sisters went to Ireland and were nearly thrown out of a pub for saying they were "Irish". We're not Irish. We barely have any Irish heritage. But say that to them and it's like I've just ruined their childhoods.

 

so yeah. Not an immigrant.

Link to post
On 1/29/2017 at 11:27 AM, Gee Whillickers said:

 

Well, technically, they are too. In both my country and yours.  It's just that the Native Canadians and Native Americans happened to precede the European and other immigrants by a few thousand years. That's the thing. That's exactly the point. We're all immigrants here on this continent, us or our ancestors. Every last one of us.

 

To pick and choose this way, for insensible and arbitrary reasons, is immoral.

 

 

 

I'm sorry - but this is the opinion of the dominant culture.  The Native Americans were here, and had respect for the land provided by mother earth.  There were First Nation civilizations throughout North America which were in many cases socially and culturally years ahead of the now dominate culture.  The Europeans came to this land to find gold, wealth and land which could be claimed under their law.  No where else in the world where one force conquered another was there ever the claim "they were immigrants too."  Your comment is directly proportional in the magnitude to Hitler's claim that Germany "needed room to grow."  Or do you justify the RCMP going into First Nations communities and taking the children in midnight raids until the 70's - sending the children into the US or other non-native homes?  I'm an Albertan in Saskatchewan.  Treaty 6 and 7 in our provinces are different than what the United States did with the First Nations.  These two treaties share the land, but retained ownership with the Crown in the concept "we are all treaty people" to live together.   There is a lot more history about what the dominant culture has done to the first nations, the real truth hidden, the victor writing the text books for schools.   Trump would call it "False news" or his information "Alternate facts."  History is being rewritten again, by the new dominant culture - and he will be writing the new text books - the way he wants too.  That would be with out modern immigrants of all cultures, women back to the days of  1Timothy 2:12 ‘do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.’ (meaning subservient, barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen), and the LGBTQ2 community being controlled or worse.  

 

Do you really want to isolate other potential allies like the First Nations in a human rights fight?  The LGBTQ2 people need friends from every sector, even the red neck Albertans. 

 

Sorry my first post is such a contentious topic.

Link to post

Welcome, Snowblind 94.  I thought your first message fine, until the last five words of the penultimate paragraph.  One rule here is to be polite.  It separates us from so many other forums where name calling and put-downs are the theme of the day.

I think Gee was making the overall point that everyone in the West began somewhere else, some just much further back in time than others, and so, in fact, everyone living here is an immigrant.  He wasn't trying to stir up controversy, simply making a point.

 

C

Link to post

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit late on Saturday (February 4, 2017) denied an emergency appeal from the U.S. Department of Justice to restore Trump's immigration ban. This stay is temporary, and will be considered by the Court of Appeals on Monday.

One step, but a good step.

Colin  :icon_geek:

 

Link to post

Cole,

I'm a red neck Albertan - and Alberta is known in western Canada as the "red neck province,"  and we are proud of it.   One of our greatest Premiers,  Peter Lougheed, stood up to the province of Ontario in the 70's when they demanded a deal on oil prices because they were central Canada.  Our red neck Premier's response, which was printed in the headlines of newspapers till this day was "let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark."  There is no social stigma applied to the term of endearment unlike other typical applications.  My apologies if it confused you.  

The immigrant comment made has been made by many, many people in an attempt to deny the First Nations status before the dominate culture of today. This is the argument put forth by many to justify the dominant culture's control of the land today after taking it from the First Nations.  The belief of the people presenting the argument is the First Nations were only immigrants and didn't actually own the land so the Europeans were justified in their claiming it as their own.  If you wish to go back further and claim humans were immigrants on the planet. that might work - but we weren't (that I'm aware of, lol - although it would explain some people).  Even if you look to the Bible or the First Nations stories of man, none of them were immigrants either - they were placed on this planet to thrive.

Unfortunately, this immigrant point and the term red neck are purely western Canadian terminology and background and would be unfamiliar to other locations.     

 

 

 

 

Link to post
5 hours ago, colinian said:

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit late on Saturday (February 4, 2017) denied an emergency appeal from the U.S. Department of Justice to restore Trump's immigration ban. This stay is temporary, and will be considered by the Court of Appeals on Monday.

One step, but a good step.

Colin  :icon_geek:

 

 

It is a good first step, but beware of the magicians slight of hand.  This is something a rallying cry can be built around for many of the Trump supporters and while everyone is focusing on the left hand (and the ban order) the right hand is negating the LGBTQ2 rights.  He already did this when he slipped in the cuts to funding of pro-choice and abortion in his first 2 days of office.  The announcement was not made until a full day after the fact, and then another executive order had been signed which refocused everyone away from women's rights.

 

This is a well orchestrated process going on. 

Link to post

snowbird wrote:

Quote

 Your comment is directly proportional in the magnitude to Hitler's claim that Germany "needed room to grow."

I think the Hitler reference was what Cole was referring to.

Mike

Link to post
On 2/4/2017 at 2:23 PM, snowblind94 said:

I'm sorry - but this is the opinion of the dominant culture.  The Native Americans were here, and had respect for the land provided by mother earth.  There were First Nation civilizations throughout North America which were in many cases socially and culturally years ahead of the now dominate culture.  The Europeans came to this land to find gold, wealth and land which could be claimed under their law.  No where else in the world where one force conquered another was there ever the claim "they were immigrants too."  Your comment is directly proportional in the magnitude to Hitler's claim that Germany "needed room to grow."  Or do you justify the RCMP going into First Nations communities and taking the children in midnight raids until the 70's - sending the children into the US or other non-native homes?  I'm an Albertan in Saskatchewan.  Treaty 6 and 7 in our provinces are different than what the United States did with the First Nations.  These two treaties share the land, but retained ownership with the Crown in the concept "we are all treaty people" to live together.   There is a lot more history about what the dominant culture has done to the first nations, the real truth hidden, the victor writing the text books for schools.   Trump would call it "False news" or his information "Alternate facts."  History is being rewritten again, by the new dominant culture - and he will be writing the new text books - the way he wants too.  That would be with out modern immigrants of all cultures, women back to the days of  1Timothy 2:12 ‘do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.’ (meaning subservient, barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen), and the LGBTQ2 community being controlled or worse.  

 

Do you really want to isolate other potential allies like the First Nations in a human rights fight?  The LGBTQ2 people need friends from every sector, even the red neck Albertans. 

 

Sorry my first post is such a contentious topic.

 

Hi, snowblind94, and welcome to AD. Looks like you may have read rather more into my comment than I intended! Sorry about that.

 

We *are* all immigrants or descended from immigrants, of course, and that's all I meant. There's lots there in your post, you allude to treaty  6 and treaty 7, which I certainly have my own thoughts on! And, of course, the many crimes perpetrated by so many against innocents. I agree, horrible and unforgivable. I wasn't however, attempting to bring those particular topics up in my post, worthy topics as they may be!

 

I look forward to your participation here.

 

 

Link to post
On 2/6/2017 at 11:38 PM, Gee Whillickers said:

 

Hi, snowblind94, and welcome to AD. Looks like you may have read rather more into my comment than I intended! Sorry about that.

 

We *are* all immigrants or descended from immigrants, of course, and that's all I meant. There's lots there in your post, you allude to treaty  6 and treaty 7, which I certainly have my own thoughts on! And, of course, the many crimes perpetrated by so many against innocents. I agree, horrible and unforgivable. I wasn't however, attempting to bring those particular topics up in my post, worthy topics as they may be!

 

I look forward to your participation here.

 

 

 

The "we are all immigrants" tag phrase is being used extensively by many prejudiced and hateful people against  the First Nations communities in numerous public forums.    I respect the extensive research and acknowledge the information being used to expand peoples viewpoints on this theory for the origins of humans in North America.    The control of the dominate culture to assimilate the First Nations has been going on for hundreds of years, and the claiming everyone is an immigrant is just another angle.  On a similar line of thought by other special interest groups, being gay has been removed from the DSM V as a mental illness.  Keep in mind there is also extensive credible research and medical information which clearly identifies any person becoming gay as a choice, learned behaviors, and absolutely not genetic or biologically created.  

 

If you look hard enough on the internet, you can find any information you want to support any position.  Many people just parrot the words, not understanding the origin or the meaning behind them.  

 

I am not an immigrant, but I am a brother to all people and would always hold my hand out to anyone who needed help.  That is what God the Creator gave to mankind - intelligence, kindness and love.  My last post for this site.  

 

Link to post
1 hour ago, snowblind94 said:

 

The "we are all immigrants" tag phrase is being used extensively by many prejudiced and hateful people against  the First Nations communities in numerous public forums.    

 

 

Interesting. This is new information for me, and I trust you understand that this certainly wasn't what I was intending or alluding to. Nor was I alluding to the other topics mentioned in the post above.

 

These topics are obviously important to you, and I can understand why. Might you consider starting a topic on one or more of these subjects in the relevant forum section? I think it would lead to some interesting discussion.

As a person who, several decades ago, worked extensively helping folks ensure they were receiving their treaty 7 rights and other basic rights, I can understand your passion on this and related subjects.

 

Link to post
5 hours ago, snowblind94 said:

That is what God the Creator gave to mankind - intelligence, kindness and love.  My last post for this site.

The above quote does not acknowledge the position of the non-believer in deities. Indeed, it assumes belief and I find that unfortunate. Similarly, the idea that:

 

5 hours ago, snowblind94 said:

Keep in mind there is also extensive credible research and medical information which clearly identifies any person becoming gay as a choice, learned behaviors, and absolutely not genetic or biologically created.

can be seen as a promotion of behaviour over our natural instinct. In much the same line of thinking, we might claim that religion is learned behaviour. As such, I would argue that the difference between learned behaviour, and natural instincts, is the key to understanding the fluidity of sexuality as seen in humans and other animals.

However, there is little to be gained in further argument once "God the Creator" is cited as the giver of "intelligence, kindness and love". My only point here, is to clarify that in the secular world view, "intelligence, kindness and love", are attributes of life that work perfectly well without a god or a religion.

Link to post
On 2/9/2017 at 2:16 PM, snowblind94 said:

 

  My last post for this site.  

 

Snowblind94,

It is a shame you're not staying around to defend your beliefs. 

But considering you joined the Forums recently and your four postings have only espoused deeply-felt political/religious views as well as  push the envelope on our Golden Rule policy against personal attacks... added to the fact that you have never made a comment about the AwesomeDude site, its stories or its authors , it has become apparent that your only reason for joining the AD Forums was to promote your political/religious views. 

Having done that you are now preparing to gather up your marbles and go home.

We have a very diverse group here and many, including myself, deplore the treatment of Native Americans in the USA and the First Nation peoples of Canada.  I am sure that there are many who would benefit from reading a reasoned, civil discussion of the topics you raised.  Gabriel Duncan our former Poetry Editor and AwesomeDude Author would especially be interested as a Native American himself.

If you insist on going, however, we wish you Godspeed.

Mike

 

Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...