Character decription

[Camy]

A quick question.

What do you all think about character description. Is it important to describe characters in detail as soon as they are introduced, or do you think it's ok to build the character in your own head, learning bits as time goes on?

Cheers all

Camy

[Tanuki Racoon]

A quick question.

What do you all think about character description. Is it important to describe characters in detail as soon as they are introduced, or do you think it's ok to build the character in your own head, learning bits as time goes on?

Actually I don't describe my characters all at once other than a cursory idea so they know we're talking with a male/female of a certain age. Beyond that I just leak hints out slowly. It takes more work but I like it. Nobody's chastised me for it yet.

[Graeme]

Character descriptions is one of those very variable areas.

In general, I would recommend making descriptions minor and subtle, and spread over the story. Initial descriptions should be the obvious things, like gender, height (if unusual), weight (if unusual) possibly hair colour. Don't go overboard because it's NOT adding to the story to have a long paragraph describing a person.

Descriptions that describe more about the person, like their personality or attitudes, can be added when appropriate later in the story.

When I started writing, I remember looking around a crowd and trying to work out how I would describe someone. That's when I realised how DIFFICULT it is. Most people fit into the broad amorphous grouping "average". If I had to describe them, I'd have to go with something unusual about. In my New Brother story, two of the main characters are largely described by their physical characteristics: Stick (thin as a stick insect) and Giant (extremely big for his age). I can't remember if I put in a lot of other description, but I suspect that most reader's mental image of the characters revolve around those two physical descriptions.

There are a lot of variations, so don't take this approach as the "best" way. It is very appropriate when introducing someone new, because people see obvious physical characteristics first. As a side point, I have to admit that there are only a handful of people who I know what eye colour they have -- for most people it's not something I notice -- it's not that important when I'm looking at someone.

In other situations, a detailed description would be very appropriate. On obvious example would be when the person being introduced is in a fashion/beauty parade. Giving a detailed description fits the circumstances in how the character first appears.

My opinion only. Just treat these things as guidelines and make up your own mind as to whether a chunk of description is adding or substracting from the flow of the story.

Graeme

[TalonRider]

I just finished editing a story in which the author was concerned about descriptions. In one paragraph, he gave the height and weight of a character which was appropriate to what was going on at that point. Later on, in another paragraph, he describes the bully of the story.

When it was appropriate, he gave more of a description of the main character like hair and eye color. The only indication to age was 10th grade was mentioned.

Jan

[Camy]

Thanks for the feedback y'all

I'm three chapters into a serial and I realised I haven't actually described the main protagonist other than in passing. Other minor characters yes, him no... It seems to flow and work ok though, so I guess I'll ... sleep on it

Camy

[The Pecman]

I believe it's very wrong to provide direct character description -- particularly of the lead character(s) -- unless it's through observation, or if it's part of the story. Read any major published work of fiction, and I defy you to find one where the author runs down the character's physical appearance, listing every element.

Find a way to describe them indirectly, by the situation. For example: if two characters are getting dressed, and one has to wear the other's shirt, then you can have the latter character say, "hey! This shirt is much too big/too small for me." Then we know their relative size, and that the other person is taller/shorter/bigger/smaller than they are.

I think the key is to be subtle and non-obvious about it. Otherwise, you risk violating Nick Archer's rules, one of which is to avoid starting a story with, "hey, my name is so-and-so-, I'm five foot ten and weigh 160 pounds and have ripped abs, etc., etc." as if it were a personal ad. Aside from being boring, that's the worst possible thing you can do in a story: remind the reader they're reading a story. (Another is making the characters perfect physical specimens without any flaws, but that's another topic.)

Find a way to introduce the character description in dialog, or through comparison. And don't ever go through a list of height, weight, hair color, eye color, body type, and so on. To me, that's total amateur-ville.

That having been said, I admit to having succumbed to the lame cliche of having the character look in the mirror and commenting on their physical flaws (or positive traits). In one case, I had our hero stand next to somebody he was attracted to, looked at himself and his friend in the mirror, and cursed himself for not being taller, for having glasses, and not looking like his friend, who was blond, handsome, and looked like a Greek god. True, it's a cliche, but at least I waited about 10 chapters into the story before doing it.

Bottom line: I'm not convinced it's important to have readers know all the details about what a character looks like, particularly early on. Let the facts slowly come out over time. Obviously, if there's a major physical issue -- like blindness or a handicap -- we'll know that pretty soon. If the kid's a shrimp, and he gets picked on or bullied in the first chapter, we know he's not built like a lineman and 6'4", 220 lbs., without ever saying it. Sometimes, less is more, and I think it helps to parcel out the details of a story sparingly, and not hit the reader with too much all at once.

[Camy]

Thanks Pecman,

It was just that I was panicking. I do that a lot. Suddenly wake up in the night and think "umm - does he have blonde hair?"

I'd like to have an outline, I'd like to have a little card file with descriptions of all my characters, and the scenes all worked out, but I'm so disorganised it just never happens. It's almost as if my muse is giving me grief. Damn him.

Camy

PS I also worry about style. Short stories are ok, but I'm writing two chapter stories and I'm desperately trying to keep the style constant. It's hard.

[EleCivil]

I'd like to have an outline, I'd like to have a little card file with descriptions of all my characters, and the scenes all worked out, but I'm so disorganised it just never happens.

If you want to keep a character bible (which I highly recommend), do it now - it's a lot easier to start one when you're three chapters in than it is when you're ten chapters in, and have already dropped ten chapters' worth of subtle references to appearances, quirks, etc.

One of the worst things is when you're far along in a story and all of a sudden think "Wait - did I give this one a last name, yet? What about eye color, did I mention that? It wasn't important then, but now..." and have to pick through all your chapters looking for any passing reference that you might have made.

I like to keep a Word document open with all the characters, their appearances, likes/dislikes, relationship to other characters, even page/chapter references to important scenes - that way, I can make updates to it as I go. Helps so much when it comes to continuity.

[Camy]

If you want to keep a character bible (which I highly recommend), do it now - it's a lot easier to start one when you're three chapters in than it is when you're ten chapters in, and have already dropped ten chapters' worth of subtle references to appearances, quirks, etc.

Yep, I've been thinking about this all day, and I'm going to give it a go.

As you say, it's much easier at the beginning. I've already had problems and I'm only at chapter 3.

Thanks

Camy

[colinian]

Camy asked:

What do you all think about character description. Is it important to describe characters in detail as soon as they are introduced, or do you think it's ok to build the character in your own head, learning bits as time goes on?

I let the story dictate whether I describe my characters or not. In "Escaping Katrina" I don't describe my protagonist / narrator Cody. Cody does describe some of the other characters as he encounters them in his narrative, not in detail but more in general, the way a teen might think about someone he sees for the first time. In the chapter of "A Day When It All Went Wrong" that I posted to the Bull Pen, Tony descirbes Todd in more detail than I'd usually use because the two boys look like twins, and having Tony as the narrator describe Todd and by "reflection" himself is a way to let the reader know how much they look alike.

I don't like stories that start out "My name is Bill, let me tell you about myself. I'm 5' 9-1/4" tall, skinny but with a great bubble butt, my hair is light brown and hangs over my forehead and ears and my mom is always on my case about getting it cut, my eyes are a piercing blue..." Gaahh!

I write an outline shortly after I start writing a story. The outline includes details of every character who's going to be involved in the story, including how I see them physically and emotionally and how they relate to the other characters. I learned to do this early on when I was taking Creative Writing in intermediate school. I wrote a short story for class where I described the main character as having brown hair then later wrote that she had blond hair. I got a B because of that gaffe, and it taught me a lesson: outline, outline, outline! I also create an Excel spreadsheet to track timelines and events in my stories so I don't screw up. Excel makes it easy to update by inserting new rows and columns.

Colin

[Camy]

Excel vs word. Hmm. I have a couple of word docs with the odd note or two, but I think it's a better idea to use a spreadsheet.

Camy

[Tanuki Racoon]

People always have this vivid image of my main character Alex in AWMS. But my initial description is rather small:

Had anyone stopped to take notice of him, they would have seen an average-looking, typical, teenager, roughly six feet tall. His eyes were pale grey, with perhaps a hint of blue or green depending on the light. His hair was a very dark blond, almost brown. He was clean cut, with just the faint beginning of a moustache. He was neither fat nor thin, though he fancied himself a bit overweight. His clothing was not typical of a modern teenager's excessively baggy clothing; he was dressed simply, in a regular pair of proper-fitting black Levi's jeans and a plain grey t-shirt.

The other protagonist (Nicky) in AWMS has an even tinier description.

In the corner of the corridor was a young man who appeared to be no older than Alex. He looked at the young musician in awe. Alex was amazed not only by the young man's flute playing, but by his looks: the busker was very tall and looked almost like an elf out of a fantasy novel complete with delicate features and bright blond hair. The only difference was the busker's hair was decidedly unkempt and short, but not in a sloppy sort of way.

It's not even the words you use but the images you paint. I drop hints about their appearances and ages throughout. (The above bits are put together. They're actually spread out over some space with intermingled text. I just kept the descriptive parts so you can see how little I actually said.)

Seriously, think -- I haven't said much but I've painted a rather vivid picture using very few words. Writing is a craft.

[Graeme]

I also have personal problem with how much emphasis people put on hair colour -- because it's one of the easiest things to change.

"Hey, Brett! When did you become a redhead?"

"Last week. I decided I wanted a change, so...." Brett shrugged.

So, if you haven't specified a hair colour and want to state it, then introduce it by having the character change -- or have another character change theirs and suggest the protaganist do the same.

Only a suggestion -- hair colour is an easy thing to drop in at any time

He ran a hand sheepishly through his black curls. He knew he'd been caught.

[TalonRider]

I just finished editing a story in which the author was concerned about descriptions. In one paragraph, he gave the height and weight of a character which was appropriate to what was going on at that point. Later on, in another paragraph, he describes the bully of the story.

When it was appropriate, he gave more of a description of the main character like hair and eye color. The only indication to age was 10th grade was mentioned.

Jan

This is how this particular author did it.

Kyle was no pushover to be sure, standing at 5?11 and weighing around 160lbs, he could handle himself, he had too. Three paragraphs later; Kyle was a good looking kid, his light brown hair, blue eyes and a face that belonged in teen magazines on top of the fact that he had kept in very good shape over the years playing sports, kept more than a few eyes on him.

For the protagnist he has this; Martin was a good 6 inches smaller than Kyle and was out weighed by maybe 40lbs; which is basically the only description.

This is what we know about the ages. The biggest rivalry in the area wasn?t on the football field or between the baskets, it was in the 10th grade class.

[blue]

Neat thread additions.

I have, more than once, written down character names, relationships, and a brief description, when I'm reading a story, to keep track, or esp. when I edit a story.

I've recently found that er, for stories I read months back, online, I probably should've kept some notes handy. -- That isn't bad writing on the writer's part, it's just a crowded brain on this reader's part.

On longer stories I've edited recently, I've either used the author's character notes, or written my own. -- They could stand to be more detailed at times. -- EleCivil's advice to write out a character bible as you go is a very good idea, particularly for long-form stories (novels, serials, novellas, etc.). -- Hmm, Colin, the idea of using an Excel spreadsheet sounds as though it'd get complex in a hurry, but it's one way to track timelines, and that's a good idea. Something like it would be useful.

I prefer character description to be sprinkled lightly throughout. I agree, it is a mark of a beginner or lazy writing to give an opening description all at once. I call that "reading a driver's license." It's the same if a character looks in the mirror to describe himself. Nope, please don't do it that way. Just a few details here, a few there. -- Now, if there's a really good reason, story-wise to use that mirror or read a dossier, that's another thing. But rarely is it needed.

[Codey]

I try to avoid describing characters period. The only exception would be if there was something very unusual about them. In an upcoming chapter of Freefall, I describe a character as "blandly normal looking" and another as "a drop dead georgous hunk" and Let the reader decide what normal and hunk means. In the same chapter I do give height and weight for one character but only because his size is such that it needed description.

I want my characters to all be the person next door, or everyman types and let my readers use their imaginations.

Codey

[Trab]

I'm not a writer, so my opinion isn't particularly relevant, but when I read I prefer to read descriptions much like when I meet someone. Not all the of person is revealed all at once, except the most obvious physical characteristics. The process is one of discovery, and that makes it a good rule to follow in stories as well.

[The Pecman]

Not all the of person is revealed all at once, except the most obvious physical characteristics. The process is one of discovery, and that makes it a good rule to follow in stories as well.

Excellent comments, and your opinion still means a lot. (Particularly when it agrees with mine, but that goes without saying. )

I totally agree that the process of reading -- and writing, too -- is one of discovery, where as you go on, you find out more and more about the characters as time goes on. For example, one character notices another has a scar on his/her leg and asks about it, which leads to a flashback of how they got the scar. A physical characteristic can be a jumping-off point to another story point, or it can be just a minor thing:

"Oh, that. I slid down a hill and caught my leg on a rock when I was 12. Bled like a sonavabitch, but it wasn't really a big deal."

Maybe the scar would come back later, maybe not. But it's one more thing we know about the physical appearance of the characters.

[Guest C. J.]

I'm far too new at writing to have much of an opinion, but I do know my own personal preferences:

I prefer reading stories where the descriptions are a little vague. One reason is that I have some specific dislikes, appearance-wise, and a very detailed description can reveal those. Chest hair is an example: I don't find it at all attractive, so a description of a hairy chest for the protagonist or his love interest can detract a bit for me. I also, if little or no description is provided, make up my own image in my mind.

I'm not criticizing anyone who does the following, but as a reader I strongly dislike the "Police report character description" where characters are described by height, weight, hair color, etc, etc.

A different method, which I consider a cliche, is (in a fist-person narrative) have the protagonist describe the appearance of his object 'd attraction in a gushing manner. I've noticed that this sort of description is common enough that I half expect it in the first chapter. So, I decided to put a slightly different twist on it, in the first chapter of my as-yet-untitled (and I'm seven chapters into it, sigh!) story.

The set-up is that the protagonist is about to meet his presumptive love interest, in "typical gay fiction" style, setting up the reader for the "first time I saw him" gushing anatomical description. So, I obliged;

The day I moved in, I pulled into the driveway, got out of my Jeep and stopped dead in my tracks as I stared at the vision of perfection in front of me. I was in love! Or was it just lust? I'd never seen such a combination of good looks and raw power, with an absolutely perfect body! A gorgeous skin of honey-gold, 17'3", radial whitewalls and polished chrome, it was obvious that somebody here sure had great taste in cars!"

[The Pecman]

I prefer reading stories where the descriptions are a little vague. One reason is that I have some specific dislikes, appearance-wise, and a very detailed description can reveal those. Chest hair is an example: I don't find it at all attractive, so a description of a hairy chest for the protagonist or his love interest can detract a bit for me.

Well, I think a lot of the stories on this site (and certainly the stories written by many of the authors) have teenaged characters, and few of them are exactly hirsute. I think the choice of the writer has to extend to physical appearance, and some anatomy discussion is going to be necessary -- to a point. But there are probably just as many readers who want to read sex scenes with more-mature characters, who are bound to have more body hair, and that's their preference.

I'm not criticizing anyone who does the following, but as a reader I strongly dislike the "Police report character description" where characters are described by height, weight, hair color, etc, etc.

That's what I like to call "violating Nick Archer's Rule #1," where neophyte authors have their characters introduce themselves by saying, "hi, my name is X, I'm so-so tall, have washboard abs, and a 50" chest," and I just roll my eyes and wanna womit. To me, you never, ever, ever have a character do this.

A different method, which I consider a cliche, is (in a first-person narrative) have the protagonist describe the appearance of his object 'd attraction in a gushing manner. I've noticed that this sort of description is common enough that I half expect it in the first chapter.

I think there's a way to do that that doesn't necessarily have to be cliched, boring, or predictable. I did it in Jagged Angel the way I'd want to see it in a movie: the character moves through shadow into a shaft of light, in slow-motion, and is revealed to the audience (and our lead guy) as being "beyond attractive," with details on his appearance. A few lines later, I described the title character as "more beautiful than handsome... radiant," to underline the point. I think specifying height and weight is ridiculous, and it's better to just stick to what you see, not what you'd measure on a scale or a ruler. But at the same time, you have to keep the story moving, because everything stops dead the moment you start overtly describing something like this in too much detail.

Still, I think in any romantic story -- with or without explicit sex -- you have to make the reader understand why one character falls in love with another. Gay or straight, making this believable is all part of the writer having to make the story work. And if it's truly "love at first sight," that first appearance better be damned good.

[DesDownunder]

Just want to say that all the comments are very very helpful.

Very interesting.

Thanks guys,

[Guest C. J.]

That's what I like to call "violating Nick Archer's Rule #1," where neophyte authors have their characters introduce themselves by saying, "hi, my name is X, I'm so-so tall, have washboard abs, and a 50" chest," and I just roll my eyes and wanna womit. To me, you never, ever, ever have a character do this.

I think there's a way to do that that doesn't necessarily have to be cliched, boring, or predictable.

It was that cliche I was making fun of in my prior post, where I had the protagonist launch into a description that turned out to be of a car.

There is a bit of comedy in my story, so I hope it's appropriate to try and throw readers for a loop like that. If not, there is always the delete key.

I did it in Jagged Angel the way I'd want to see it in a movie: the character moves through shadow into a shaft of light, in slow-motion, and is revealed to the audience (and our lead guy) as being "beyond attractive," with details on his appearance. A few lines later, I described the title character as "more beautiful than handsome... radiant," to underline the point. I think specifying height and weight is ridiculous, and it's better to just stick to what you see, not what you'd measure on a scale or a ruler. But at the same time, you have to keep the story moving, because everything stops dead the moment you start overtly describing something like this in too much detail.

Still, I think in any romantic story -- with or without explicit sex -- you have to make the reader understand why one character falls in love with another. Gay or straight, making this believable is all part of the writer having to make the story work. And if it's truly "love at first sight," that first appearance better be damned good.

Thanks for the reply! I loved they way you did that in "Jagged Angel", it was subtle.

You have also just inspired me to punch up a certain scene in Ch1 of a story I'm seven chapters into! (good thing I haven't posted it yet). Thanks!

CJ