Recovery, new story on nifty

[ubik]

http://eu.nifty.org/nifty/gay/highschool/recovery/

There are just two chapters yet, but I found the beginning very promising.

[colinian]

http://eu.nifty.org/nifty/gay/highschool/recovery/

There are just two chapters yet, but I found the beginning very promising.

Interesting story, the setting is different, the characters are well written so you know enough about each of them to form opinions which will probably change as we learn more about them. I especially like the developing relationship between Greg and Seth.

Some things can be confusing, with almost everyone in Bonner related it takes some extra effort to figure out what's going on. For example, in one place it says "Greg had been to the Patterson place..." and later it says "Greg had to ask directions to the Patterson farm..." made me think, why did the author do that? Well, it's because the "Patterson place" is Evan's house and the "Patterson farm" is Seth's house.

The story could use a pass by a good editor to fix a few punctuation and tense problems. The way eliotmoore has written the story in first person from both Greg's and John's perspectives works; usually it bugs me, but doesn't in Recovery.

I'm not ready to follow another serial chapter-by-chapter right now. I'm going to wait a couple of months when the author has posted more chapters and there's a lot to read in one sitting.

Colin

[ubik]

I too thought it was sometimes a bit confusing. An editor could be of benefit for the story, agreed. I wrote a mail to the autor and suggested him to submit the story to Awesomedude.

Anyhow, third chapter is in, and I think the story should be added to Best Of Nifty now.

[Nevius]

I agree that the story should be added to best of nifty. And also agree it could use a thorough pass by an editor. Yet despite the extra effort it takes it is worth it for the depth of characters and setting. I somehow feel it is not going to be a long story either. Spring is coming. Let's hope we're not disappointed.

[vwl]

I look forward to reading the story. As moderator of the Best of Nifty site, I have to enforce the criterion that a story is not added until it's finished. There are too many stories at BoN that are never completed. However, I'll consider it on the nomination list and have it considered when done.

vwl

[Tanuki Racoon]

I agree that the story should be added to best of nifty. And also agree it could use a thorough pass by an editor. Yet despite the extra effort it takes it is worth it for the depth of characters and setting. I somehow feel it is not going to be a long story either. Spring is coming. Let's hope we're not disappointed.

I think nominating a story after just three chapters is premature. Especially considering it needs clean-up work. You dilute the value of BON. BON should be for proven, clean, stories.

[Cole Parker]

I've read all four chapters posted. I like the fact that Greg is attracted to Seth, yet feels very ambivalent about it. The boy is younger and that bothers him. That sort of dissonance isn't seen very frequently and adds spice to the story. The fact the ambivalence is manifested in Greg not always treating Seth very well just adds to our frustration and angst, which keeps us involved.

On the other hand, the writing is very uneven. Several people have mentioned the need for editing, and I enthusiastically agree. There are spelling, syntax and grammatical errors that greatly detract from enjoying the story.

Perhaps it's just me -- a distinct possibility -- but I find clarity to be a huge problem. I'm simply not sure what he's saying some of the time. Just as one example, and there are more that could be cited, he has an abundance of sentences with two people in them, then begins the next sentence with "He." Who is he referring to? I'm frequently unsure, and the context of the sentence doesn't help.

The story is very enjoyable, but rather desperately needs serious editing at some point. I'm not volunteering for the job. It would be a lot of work. And of course it's quite possible the author wouldn't agree on the necessity.

Cole

[colinian]

I've lost interest in Recovery. Too much partying with sex and drugs and booze. Every weekend. Where are the parents? Where are the neighbors? Where are the cops?? No one in this small town seems to either realize what's going on with these kids or they don't care or they think it's OK. 11th grade boys having sex with 8th grade girls and boys. An unending supply of beer without anyone questioning how. Kids going into the only store in town and buying a couple of cases, yeah, sure. Oh, how about the apparent unending supply of money to buy the beer. Man, how unrealistic!

I agree with others that Recovery needs editing. That's one of the disadvantages of posting on Nifty, it's a readers' site, not a writers' site. The advantage of posting on AD and Codey's World and GA is that writers can get knowledgeable editing and reviews and even helpful criticism.

Colin

[blue]

When Colin's right, he's so right. It's sure nice to be appreciated. The check is in the mail.(*)

(*) Yes, somebody sent me a check too. It was imaginary. It was much like free advice, in its value.

I don't think I've read "Recovery" yet.

The general consensus seems to be that the story might have potential, but it has problems with some basic writing skills, like pronoun antecedents (that "he" stuff you mentioned) among others, and it has some problems with plausibility.

Whether it's a fantasy story or a soap opera or a very real-life drama, plausibility is a key. Not so much, would it happen in real life as, is it plausible/believable that this might conceivably happen, and would you pretend with me until the story's done?

A life of parties, sex, drugs, booze, and rock 'n roll? That can only last so long. (One college suite mate was an astonishing exception, though I don't know what happened later.)

In my family, *one* party like that, in high school, attending or throwing it, and I would've been in the doghouse until I was 30. (Alright, I heard the snickering from the back corner. Now cut that out!)

[colinian]

...In my family, *one* party like that, in high school, attending or throwing it, and I would've been in the doghouse until I was 30. (Alright, I heard the snickering from the back corner. Now cut that out!)

If it was me (and I'm 17 and still in high school), *one* party like that and I'd be locked in my room until I was 60! And no snickering, please!

Colin

[ubik]

I've lost interest in Recovery. Too much partying with sex and drugs and booze. Every weekend. Where are the parents? Where are the neighbors? Where are the cops?? No one in this small town seems to either realize what's going on with these kids or they don't care or they think it's OK. 11th grade boys having sex with 8th grade girls and boys. An unending supply of beer without anyone questioning how. Kids going into the only store in town and buying a couple of cases, yeah, sure. Oh, how about the apparent unending supply of money to buy the beer. Man, how unrealistic!

I agree with others that Recovery needs editing. That's one of the disadvantages of posting on Nifty, it's a readers' site, not a writers' site. The advantage of posting on AD and Codey's World and GA is that writers can get knowledgeable editing and reviews and even helpful criticism.

Colin

well, if I compare the partying in this story to my youth, it is actually pretty tame. They only drink and smoke some pot, and only at the weekends. Perhaps you grew up in a very protected enviroment, colinian, but not everybody had the same experience.

But this still isn't an excuse for a repetitive and confusing story structure of course.

[colinian]

well, if I compare the partying in this story to my youth, it is actually pretty tame. They only drink and smoke some pot, and only at the weekends. Perhaps you grew up in a very protected enviroment, colinian, but not everybody had the same experience.

But this still isn't an excuse for a repetitive and confusing story structure of course.

The minimum age for purchasing beer in Saskatchewan (where Bonner is supposed to be located) is 19. I'd assume that it wouldn't be lower in the mythical Assiniboia. None of these kids are 19. Or even 18. Bonner is a very small town, not a large city where it's easier to score booze and drugs. It's just not plausible. I want the stories I read to make sense and be plausible. Even SF and Fantasy stories have to make sense in the context of their imaginary environments. For me, Recovery doesn't make sense and isn't plausible.

I don't live in a very protected environment. A story about kids who score booze and drugs in the area where I live is Bodega Bay by Nicholas James on GA. Except for needing some editing to fix a lot of geographic improbabilities, this story makes sense and is plausible in the same ways that Recovery isn't. If you're interested, the link is http://members.gayauthors.org/nickolasjames/bodega1.php.

Colin

[Cole Parker]

I agree that plausibility is a vital ingredient in a story if the story is going to hold a reader's interest. Without that, anything goes, and drama is reduced as any conflict can be resolved without resorting to a need for reality.

Cole

[DesDownunder]

A party like that in my family would have gone unnoticed as my folks would have been in one of their alcoholic comas, which is probably why I wouldn't have ever gone to such a party.

As a child my task was to make sure the adults were being nice to each other as they got drunk.

Quite often they began screaming obscenities at each other, but never used four letter words if I was present. They really cared about me.

I threatened to lock them up until they were 60, but they just fell about laughing while they tried to open another bottle of sherry, whisky, wine, brandy etc. They really believed in being sociable too. Anyone who turned up at the door would be offered a drink, including the police officers who were called by a neighbour who evidently was upset they had not been invited to the party.

They loved playing card games while they drank. They would yell at each other until exhaustion overcame them when they would fall asleep in each others' arms on the nearest bed. I had a very loving family.

I thought this behavior was normal until I came from school one day and found them all sober. Someone had died or got divorced or something.

Is it any wonder I don't drink.

Now you might not think this is at all plausible but it happened.

[Cole Parker]

Des, It's really sad it happened.

You seem to have developed a sensitivy that they didn't have. It's wonderful you did that.

Moving on the Recovery, with the latest chapter now up, my question is, is the story finished? I remember the recent rule we read, that there is no need to write "The End" when we're done; it'll be apparent. I thought that silly at the time, and this simply is another of abundant examples of why. The story could end here, or not. I like it when an author is respectful enough of his audience to let these good people know.

Does anyone have a guess whether this was the last chapter or not?

Cole

[DesDownunder]

Thanks Cole,

Whilst it does indeed seem sad, my family really were very loving towards me.

They had a really great sense of humour and would have found my post amusing and then spanked me for posting it.

It would have been a source of amusement for them for many years.

The sense of humour is I think what helped me most.

Enough of my past.

On the end of a story: Sometimes a story can be left hanging with good reason. The point the author wanted to make is done and leaving it hanging can make the reader contemplate the message deeper than if all the ends were tied together.

The Most famous example I can think of is Gone With The Wind where the reader is left hanging because Scarlet O'Hara will "think about it tomorrow, for tomorrow is another day." What we get from that should be Scarlet's philosophical understanding of hope in life and relate it to ourselves, unfortunately some people are still waiting for the sequel because they have not "got it".

Whether this the case with Recovery or not, I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Cole Parker]

Except there's a major difference. You know the book is done whether there is a final The End or not. There aren't any more words to read.

You know a movie is over. The lights come on.

But with an Internet story, without a The End, you just have to keep checking back to see if another chapter comes up. I think that's rude and unnecessary.

But that's just me.

Cole

[DesDownunder]

Except there's a major difference. You know the book is done whether there is a final The End or not. There aren't any more words to read.

You know a movie is over. The lights come on.

But with an Internet story, without a The End, you just have to keep checking back to see if another chapter comes up. I think that's rude and unnecessary.

But that's just me.

Cole

I must admit, me too.

You made me laugh Cole "The lights come on"

End of Post.

[The Pecman]

But with an Internet story, without a The End, you just have to keep checking back to see if another chapter comes up. I think that's rude and unnecessary.

Yeah, I agree that "The End" is a little cheesy. I can't recall ever seeing it done in a major published novel.

I do two things: I put a bullet ? at the end of the final sentence, and then I add an Afterword to thank people who helped with the story, provide some references, and I toss in some extra copyright notices of anything quoted in the story. I figure, people will know that's it, case closed, game over, done deal.

Pieces of Destiny may wind up having a lot of historical references cited, just because of the research I've had to do to write it. It'll probably bore people if I include them all, but I'll certainly put in the top ten.

[DesDownunder]

Yeah, I agree that "The End" is a little cheesy. I can't recall ever seeing it done in a major published novel.

I do two things: I put a bullet ? at the end of the final sentence, and then I add an Afterword to thank people who helped with the story, provide some references, and I toss in some extra copyright notices of anything quoted in the story. I figure, people will know that's it, case closed, game over, done deal.

Pieces of Destiny may wind up having a lot of historical references cited, just because of the research I've had to do to write it. It'll probably bore people if I include them all, but I'll certainly put in the top ten.

I like references at the end of a story but then I am one of the few who actually enjoy reading forwards and introductions as well.

Anyway Pecman, people don't have to read them if they don't want to and it really does help the reader to know the story has concluded. I like a row of ************ at the end.

Acknowledgements are to me a courtesy too often forgotten.

Of course it also possible to place a historical note such as:

"This story completed in February 2007."

*****************

[Mountain Dude]

But with an Internet story, without a The End, you just have to keep checking back to see if another chapter comes up. I think that's rude and unnecessary.

But that's just me.

Cole

I agree with you Cole -- It has gotten to the point with me that I just don't read a Novel until it is finished. If it doesn't sat The End, how would you ever know the author had brought it to a conclusion.

Eddy

[Cole Parker]

Hah! We're not alone. Des feels the same. If we keep adding people to our pile, some day we'll be in the majority. And, as we were the first, we're the ones having fun on the bottom.

Cole

[The Pecman]

Of course it also possible to place a historical note such as:

"This story completed in February 2007."

I don't agree with that. First, I don't think anybody cares about that except the author. Secondly, it doesn't make the story better, more interesting, or enhance any detail. I don't have a problem with the author adding an Afterword, then ending it with his or her name or initials, and the place and date on which the it was written. I've followed that idea because it was used by many authors (among them Stephen King, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, and many others). I think it's classy and tasteful, and says just enough without saying too much.

The stories that really annoy me are the ones that end with "X number of words, started X time and date, ended Y time and date," as if it were some kind of lame English compositional assignment. Silly. Just tell the damned story, and then add a note or two at the end if you want.

[Tanuki Racoon]

The stories that really annoy me are the ones that end with "X number of words, started X time and date, ended Y time and date," as if it were some kind of lame English compositional assignment. Silly. Just tell the damned story, and then add a note or two at the end if you want.

I hear ya' brother.

A good story can end and everyone knows it's over. But it's still polite to end it, with an "end" or "fin" or something simple.

[Cole Parker]

Right on WBMS. I agree.

C