Confused by my elders

[Codey]

Ok....now I'm completely confused. In a post on 08/29, 'someguy' asked if he was gay and somehow i got lost. Blue, AJ, Dewey were talking about people getting married and there seemed to be a difference of opinion about whether someone could not know they were gay. These guys realize it sometime later after they're married and have kids. I can understand how hurtful this could be. If to no one else then to the person who discovers he's living a lie but loves the people that populate his lie.

Should he live with the secret and suffer himself or out himself and stand the chance of losing his children? Would he love his family enough to suffer in silence or hate himself enough that he couldn't live the lie any longer and would risk everything to find peace?

All of this got me thinking about me and my Champ. He is positive he's gay and loves me. This wasn't easy for him and he needed the help of a shrink to work out his sexuality. Could I wake up some morning in ten years only to be told I was a mistake and that he's really straight? If he was gay, how could he not know it?

I don't understand how you can not know what you are unless you're bi-sexual. If you're bi-sexual then could the 'I'm really gay' or 'I'm really straight' not just be an excuse to get out of a relationship that for some reason doesn't satisfy you anymore? Not intentionally but subconsciosly at least.

[Graeme]

I will put my hand up as one of the people involved in that discussion. I am a married gay man, with two kids. I have been asked several times does that make me "bi" and in my opinion, the answer is "No". The closest I can explain it is I'm 20% hetero and 80% homo, but even that leaves a lot to be desired. Just let's say I love my wife and she loves me. However, if the worst thing happens, I'll be looking for a guy to spend the rest of my life with, not a girl.

A lot of this occurred because I was not comfortable with my sexuality until quite recently. Since then, I have learnt that over 90% of relationships in my situation fail. I'm working as hard as I can to ensure that I don't add to that statistic. I have an essay in the Authors Speak at the Mail Crew website (http://www.themailcrew.com) if you want to read more on my background.

Dewey is in a similar situation. He has published statements on this before, so I'm (hopefully) not putting words into his mouth. In his case, he didn't realise he was gay until after he was married. He also has an essay at the Mail Crew website on the subject of emotions that gives some of his background.

Should he live with the secret and suffer himself or out himself and stand the chance of losing his children? Would he love his family enough to suffer in silence or hate himself enough that he couldn't live the lie any longer and would risk everything to find peace?

I'm not sure I can give a good answer to this one. For me, it was a question of honesty, plus I had assumed that my wife had already known. I am aware of others who had marriages lasting decades who only came out after their partner died.

In a large percentage of cases of marriages that fail after the person came out of the closet, the failure can be partially attributed to the fact that the person had an affair. From discussions with my wife, I think a lot of women would probably consider casual sex with another guy as constituting an "affair". On that basis, if the man can control himself enough so that it is only a mental temptation, and does not take it the next step, then he has the option of keeping the secret. What that will do to his mental health, I can't say. My wife has made the comment that I'm a happier person since I've told her -- take whatever conclusions you like from that. On the down side, she also recently told me that she seriously contemplated suicide at one point after I came out of the closet.

All of this got me thinking about me and my Champ. He is positive he's gay and loves me. This wasn't easy for him and he needed the help of a shrink to work out his sexuality. Could I wake up some morning in ten years only to be told I was a mistake and that he's really straight? If he was gay, how could he not know it?

I don't understand how you can not know what you are unless you're bi-sexual. If you're bi-sexual then could the 'I'm really gay' or 'I'm really straight' not just be an excuse to get out of a relationship that for some reason doesn't satisfy you anymore? Not intentionally but subconsciosly at least.

As someone who has known his sexual preference since year 6 in school, but was not confident in myself to admit it, I can't really answer this one. However, I'm aware that it happens. I would like to think that the problem is caused by society -- the lack of acceptance of homosexuality feeds back to young people and they subconsciously suppress what they are feeling. Once they have gotten past that, I doubt they go back.

My opinion only, of course.

Graeme

[blue]

Hello, Codeyspen,

Gee, I don't feel elderly! :D

I hope aussie_gw answered your questions well enough.

You had a couple of things I'd like to respond to.

First, you asked if your Champ might one day decide he's really straight and end the relationship. From how you said it, I think you're just speaking in "what-if" and hypothetically, that you don't really think he would do that.

I think people can end relationships and give other reasons rather than the real reasons for why they broke up. It seems less likely to me for a person to decide they're straight after being in a gay relationship for a while, but it could happen, particularly in your teens. But saying you're straight seems less possible after a relationship that lasted a while. So try not to worry about something that hasn't happened and that is unlikely. Don't borrow trouble. Be happy you have someone to be with.

Your second question was about how someone could be confused, how could they not know their sexual feelings? Those feelings may be slow to start up. They may not be often or strong, at first, but later, they build up in strength and happen more often. They might be confused with friendship. Personal beliefs and how people around us believe influences how we feel about things. It can also be harder to figure it out without experience. (If someone does experiment, it's important that they practice safe sex.)

It's very possible to have gay feelings and not know what to think about them, whether to accept those feelings as OK or not. It's also possible not to recognize those feelings for what they are at first, because they are new to you. Then there's the question of whether you can open up to anyone else to talk to them about it. The lack of examples or role models, so that you can see what it's really like for someone to be gay, is also a problem.

Eventually, though, it becomes clear to a person how they feel, and it can be tough to know where to go from there.

[Dewey]

I don't understand how you can not know what you are unless you're bi-sexual. If you're bi-sexual then could the 'I'm really gay' or 'I'm really straight' not just be an excuse to get out of a relationship that for some reason doesn't satisfy you anymore? Not intentionally but subconsciosly at least.

The only way I can describe what happened for me is to liken it to a mental block of a traumatic event. My brain simply couldn't put all the evidence together. All the pieces were there, but there was nothing consciously linking them together. My mind refused to grasp the concept that I was gay until I was shocked into the realization, and when that happened, it literally made me non-functional for four days.

Looking back now, I can remember events going back to the time I was eight years old, and trace a pattern through my childhood, adolescence and adult life up until the time I came out to myself.

Like Aussie_GW, I consider myself gay, but I'm at the 95% mark. I love my wife, I can love my wife (if you understand the distinction), and she loves me. She knows I'm gay, and she doesn't like it. Frankly, I can't blame her. This wasn't "in the brochure" as she puts it. In spite of that, we too are trying to make our relationship work, but again, as our Aussie friend said, it is difficult at best.

[Codey]

Ok...I can understand the blocking of a traumatic event....I understand that completely from experience. I know what happens when the memories decide to pop back up. I guess because I have had very few really negative reactions to me being gay that I just can't see it in the same light as those who weren't reared in a family that was completely non-judgemental. hummmm...I don't like that term. It implys that you've done something that others have they right to judge you for. Being gay is something no one has the right to judge me for any more than they have the right to judge the color of my eyes or my skin. I guess accepting would have been a better word.

I was seperated from the real world for quite a while when I was 12 and 13, and missed a lot of the peer pressure that might have caused me to question my sexual feelings. I just woke up one morning knowing I was gay and then went back to worrying about the other things going on in my life. I suppose that fighting to stay alive one day and wanting nothing more than to die the next left little time for the sexual angst I was supposed to be going thru at that age.

Dewey, I love the Brian and Pete series and I feel a kinship with Brian. Now that I know what you went thru, I understand how you were able to write feelings for him that were so close to mine. We both feel anger,loss and betrayal...him from rejection and people not respecting his feelings, me from loss by death not rejection. He seems comfortable with his gayness just as I am and people tend to treat him as if being gay is causeing his problems instead of listening to him and seeing that there's other things bothering him that are more important than sexuality.

Damn...writing my life story here lol I guess what I'm trying to say is I just can't understand why being gay or having gay thoughts is that traumatic to some. I know it is from watching Champ go through it. I guess it'll be one of those things I'll never understand and will just have to accept.

I wrote this poem last spring...it might explain my feelings a little more.

Codey

HOW?

a poem by codey

How can four souls so filled with love

just suddenly be taken away?

And what was the wrong committed

that demanded this price be paid?

How can a God of infinite love

take them but make you stay?

And how do you stop the feeling

that you have been betrayed

How do you cling to happy moments

with those you held so dear,

when every word or every sound

reminds you they're no longer here?

How can the memory of those so beloved

grow dim and slowly fade?

like will'o-the-wisps blowing in the wind,

like promises yet unmade

How can those who've known no such loss

have the right to tell me how to feel?

What makes them think they have the answers

and that what I feel isn't real?

How can things once thought beautiful

now always seem so stark

and why does a day filled with sunshine

now always seem so dark?

[aj]

Hey cody--

I was part of that discussion as well. I'm coming at it from a position similar to yours, in that i'm gay and pretty pleased about that, and not in a heterosexual relationship (as you might have gathered from the discussion itself).

I think Blue hit the nail on the head: it's all about one's belief system and the beliefs of those around you. There can be a great deal of pressure brought to bear on a person to be straight and conform, without a word ever being spoken. Most parents just assume their children are straight until proven otherwise, and act accordingly. If you're gay, then you understand that there isn't a whole lot of positive reinforcement for being gay when you're a kid (do i have a talent for understatement, or what?). So i understand how men get involved in straight relationships and only come out years later. Most men in this situation get caught up in a cycle of lies...telling their wives that it's all good, telling their lovers the same, trying to keep way too many plates in the air at once and then having a catastrophe. Dewey and Aussie are the exceptions to what, in my experience, is the norm: they're two straight up guys who bit the bullet and were honest, which gives them a fighting chance to have their relationships succeed. My heart is with both of them, and I hope with everything in me that their relationships work out as they want them to.

cheers!

aj

[Dewey]

Dewey and Aussie are the exceptions to what, in my experience, is the norm: they're two straight up guys who bit the bullet and were honest, which gives them a fighting chance to have their relationships succeed. My heart is with both of them, and I hope with everything in me that their relationships work out as they want them to.

Thank you AJ.

Codey,

Feeling comfortable with who you are as a person, including all the facets of your being, is not something that comes naturally to most people. One cause of this, in my opinion, is that we are taught from an early age that non-conformity will prove painful, most notably through the abuse heaped upon us by our peers and adults during our formative years. In addition to this, many gay teens have religious influences that tell them their very nature is an abomination. It is little wonder that some people look at their own homosexuality with disgust and self-loathing.

For myself, sexuality was not an issue growing up, but my lack of physical stature and preference for intellectual pursuits made me a target for those more socially connected or athletically inclined. I won't go into the details here, but the end result was 15 years of abuse that led to my no self-esteem. If I had been conscious of my sexuality during this period... It is hard to say what the outcome would have been.

[Codey]

Jeez.......I'm at a loss for words for the first time in my life.

Dewey...I know how much I hate for people to tell me they know how I feel so I can only say that I can't imagine the pain you went thru. I recognize the pain you feel and I sincerly hope you find peace and can hold the life you have and want, together. The same goes for Aussie.

One of the things I remember my dad saying was that our past is something we can't change and all we can do for our future is to point ourselves in the direction we want it to go. We have to live in the present we have and use our past as a lesson in deciding where we want our future to go. I'm not sure how that applys except as a reminder not to let your past rule your present or your future. The past can't be changed but there's always hope in your future.

I'm glad we had this discussion...it reminded me how lucky I was to have had the family I had and that there's hope in my future too. Codey

[Dewey]

One of the things I remember my dad saying was that our past is something we can't change and all we can do for our future is to point ourselves in the direction we want it to go. We have to live in the present we have and use our past as a lesson in deciding where we want our future to go. I'm not sure how that applys except as a reminder not to let your past rule your present or your future. The past can't be changed but there's always hope in your future.

I'm glad we had this discussion...it reminded me how lucky I was to have had the family I had and that there's hope in my future too. Codey

Codey, a very good friend and adopted brother once said to me something very much like what your father told you. If we allow it, the past can and will dictate our lives today and in the future. Learning from the past and applying those lessons to our life today is the best way live. It took me 30 years to be ready to learn that lesson, but now I have, and I'm so much happier than I used to be. (LYB! :) )