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Dead gay teen caused 'turmoil'


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I'm not following how this:

But in this case, he had a couple of days to think about it, to go home, load up the gun, sleep on it overnight, then take then gun to school, find the gay kid, and then shoot him in the head. Note also that the murderer shot the gay kid twice, just to be sure.

justifies this:

life without a chance of parole makes sense.
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What I meant by that, Mr. (or Ms.) Tails, is a lesser sentence wouldn't be enough. And I think we're in agreement that the death sentence would be too much.

Life without parole would be justified for murder (IMHO) under special circumstances, which would include "lying in wait," "premeditation," hate crimes, and so on.

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It's taken me a while to come to what I think is a logical conclusion in this matter. Reading this thread has been facinating, and it's easy to sympathize with all of the viewpoints expressed. Some of the opinions expressed, I believe, have been seeded in sadness and anger, but again, it's easy to see why. This is a tragedy for everyone involved that won't just go away for the familes of both parties involved, or from the classmates who witnessed the murder.

I'd venture to say that the killer's friends, who possibly sided with him unconditionally before he pulled a gun and committed the murder, probably have a whole new view on tolerance and bullying. I think the real question is, are the killers parents culpable in this? Did they use words like "fag" and "fairy" in their home? Did they teach him that homosexuality is a disease? That it's a choice?

The killer's life is ruined. He'll never get over what he did. What happens from here depends on what the justice system does with him. Will he be locked in a cage and fed three times a day? Will he be placed in a prison cell when he's 18, where he'll likely be raped and beaten a number of times until he snaps again, deepening his hatred of gays and furthering whatever notions he has about us? Or will he recieve couseling and be given a chance to be rehabilitated? He may never be fit to come back out into society, but I'd like to think that he can recover from his own predudicial handicap if he gets the help he needs. Wouldn't we want that for ourselves?

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What is the purpose of the system? It seems to me that the main purpose is to take revenge and I think that is wrong.

It ought to be to bring the offender to realise that what they did was unacceptable and to persuade them to want not to do that any more. Then if they are let out of prison the rest of us will be in no danger.

At present the way people are treated in jail is very unlikely to enable them to come out able to live without crime. In prison they are more likely to learn how to be a career criminal. And to acquire a grudge against society that they want to take revenge about.

It costs a great deal more to keep someone in prison that it does to send them to the best private school there is. If our schools were all at that standard we would have far fewer criminals. Most people in prisons have somehow missed out on their education and, as drop-outs from society, have taken to crime and drugs as the only way to get by. It would be hugely cost-effective to improve our bad schools.

Societies like the USA and UK that put people in prison and do almost nothing to help them 'go straight' when they get out are just making things worse and wasting taxpayers money.

If all schools were good schools then we could (after a few years) close most of the prisons. Society would be richer, there would be less crime and a lot of people would not be miserable as victims of crime and in prison.

Love,

Anthony

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I have to say, I disagree with the lawyer.

but on the other hand they behave as lawyers should behave: throwing the guilt to anyone else BUT their client.

One kid was shot dead! I hope nobody will let the shooter walk away scot-free.

anyway, it's an interesting if, diabolical, defense.

Let's see if the Office of Public Defender can be skillful enough :shock:

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So what should we do, just give him a pat on the back and let him go?

And the school part sorry I don't think schools are the only thing that can make society great, schools can only do so much, Agree schools probably didn't do enough, just because he gets punished or someone steps in doesn't mean he wouldn't kill Lawrence

And then how many years should go in for?, some say he should just get help, then what kind of place then, would he be able to go wherever he wanted?

Not quite sure he should be tried as an adult, not the same what jakob was saying.

What jakob said after he does get out though, I agree, he needs a job, plus a good environment. or the cycle starts again, not saying he would kill again, but "criminal"

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So Pecman, you don't think Juveniles and adults should be treated differently?

It all depends on the circumstances. In this specific case, knowing what I know about it, I say life without parole. And I would also have the dead gay kid's parents sue the murderer's family for wrongful death and get every dime they own.

I think Drewbie above has thoughts similar to mind. I also agree with the previous sentiments that better education would stop a lot of things like this from happening. Even though my partner and I have no kids, my mom was a schoolteacher for almost 40 years, and I'm convinced that a good education makes a huge difference in helping to curb street crime, and also to lift people out of poverty -- on top of helping children and teens understand the differences between right and wrong, plus understand why bigotry and violence aren't answers to anything.

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Mostly said once he gets out it there should be a support or better support system, Im not entirely convinced education will help deter the bigotry and other things, just because it's taught in school, like I said before schools can do only so much depends on home environment the neighbor hood. Parents I think half the time now needs a lesson on somethings, but II do think parents need to really talk to them on how to handle situations.

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Dear Drewbie,

I didn't say "let him go". I said the purpose of the system is wrong and I hope I implied that the purpose ought to be to persuade (convince? educate? ) the criminal not to do it again. And I didn't say there should be no deterrent. I'm in favour of deterring people who are on the way to doing bad things but I'm not in favour of revenge. When it comes to discussions about what to do about crime, the unthinking answer given by the worst newspapers is always to increase the punishment. That ignores the reason most people break the law which is that they can do so and get away with it. They don't get caught. If all lawbreaking was followed immediately by the legal punishment a great many laws would have to be changed urgently because it would be seen that they are unjust or stupid. Many prescribed punishments are much too severe.

You wrote:

So what should we do, just give him a pat on the back and let him go?

I reply, of course not.

You wrote:

And the school part sorry I don't think schools are the only thing that can make society great, schools can only do so much, Agree schools probably didn't do enough, just because he gets punished or someone steps in doesn't mean he wouldn't kill Lawrence

I reply that I didn't say the ONLY thing. I'm a parent myself and think and say that the most important thing anyone ever does is bring up children. The reason I mention schools is because they are provided by society as a whole and could be well designed to bring a good influence on their pupils. This would do some good. Putting people in prison and throwing away the key does harm and is also VERY expensive.

You wrote:

And then how many years should go in for?, some say he should just get help, then what kind of place then, would he be able to go wherever he wanted?

Not quite sure he should be tried as an adult, not the same what jakob was saying.

What jakob said after he does get out though, I agree, he needs a job, plus a good environment. or the cycle starts again, not saying he would kill again, but "criminal"

I reply that it looks as if you are not certain you want to treat a teenager as harshly as a forty-year old and that you don't rule out the idea that when the criminal comes out of prison something should be done to help him 'go straight' (so, in my book you aren't a totally lost cause;-)

And you may want to agree to disagree with me, but I don't want to disagree with you: I want to persuade you that what I say is sense and if I fail I want to be persuaded that I should change my opinion to yours.

And in this respect I think the main danger is 'faith', which gives people the excuse they need to refuse to listen to what other people say. Do I need to explain why?

Love,

Anthony

PS I've never been in prison so I didn't need to be 'straight' when I came out!

[i came out as bent.]

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