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Tanuki Racoon

I hate Gay Stories

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Hello :)

That subject ought to have riled you all up a bit. It's true, you know, I hate most gay stories. I'm sure, coming from me, that's quite a shock.

Let me explain. I love a good story (novel, novella, short story, essay, whatever). However, many people write these specifically gay pieces and most of them, quite frankly, aren't very good -- more later.

However, good writers write a fantastic story and one or more of the characters happen to be gay. That's not the same thing. And I'm not arguing semantics. In a good story, it should work pretty well regardless of the genders of the characters.

Stories where the whole plot exists SOLELY because the character is gay are generally weak.

(I am not referring to 'sex' stories where the point is sex. If you're not sure, remove all the sex scenes. If there's no story left, you've written a sex story. Call Harlequin and understand that what you have isn't literature.)

Most of the authors here are good authors and write good stories that happen to have gay characters. Sure, some elements won't work -- like getting your ass kicked in school because you're straight.

And there are exceptions "New Brother" is a fine work and if the character wasn't gay the story just wouldn't exist. No rule is absolute.

Anyway, I wanted to vent after getting hosed, yet again, on Nifty. But I keep going back because sometimes you find a piece like "tapping" which is well worth sifting through the hellish morass of crap that lives at Nifty.

-- wbms

[/b]

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Hello :)

That subject ought to have riled you all up a bit. It's true, you know, I hate most gay stories. I'm sure, coming from me, that's quite a shock.

Let me explain. I love a good story (novel, novella, short story, essay, whatever). However, many people write these specifically gay pieces and most of them, quite frankly, aren't very good -- more later.

However, good writers write a fantastic story and one or more of the characters happen to be gay. That's not the same thing. And I'm not arguing semantics. In a good story, it should work pretty well regardless of the genders of the characters.  

Stories where the whole plot exists SOLELY because the character is gay are generally weak.  

(I am not referring to 'sex' stories where the point is sex. If you're not sure, remove all the sex scenes. If there's no story left, you've written a sex story. Call Harlequin and understand that what you have isn't literature.)

Most of the authors here are good authors and write good stories that happen to have gay characters. Sure, some elements won't work -- like getting your ass kicked in school because you're straight.

And there are exceptions "New Brother" is a fine work and if the character wasn't gay the story just wouldn't exist. No rule is absolute.

Anyway, I wanted to vent after getting hosed, yet again, on Nifty. But I keep going back because sometimes you find a piece like "tapping" which is well worth sifting through the hellish morass of crap that lives at Nifty.

-- wbms

[/b]

http://crvboy.com/stories/index.html

I haye Nifty also, because most of the time any good stories end up not getting finished or end up getting finished on better site like Dudes, Dewy and a few others

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It may be semantics, but I believe what you are really saying is that you hate bad stories, not that you hate gay stories.

Gay-themed or gay-centric stories can be very good reads. After all, drama, stress and conflict can make for interesting and entertaining reading. Coming out, the problems of forming a relationship in a heterosexual dominated world, and enduring homophobic reactions, are elements that can be used for writing great stories. These concepts, while having parallels in non-gay situations as well, have a unique spin for gay characters.

Coming out: As Blue and Codey have indicated, disabled people endure a type of "coming out" every time they meet someone new.

Relationships: There are still many places around the world where it can be hard to form relationships because the person is not of the same ethnicity as the community they live in. This is not just a "black/white" racial issue, but includes any racial, ethnic or even religious minority. Consider the caste system that exists in certain parts of the world.

Reactions: See above for relationships, as the two are very much linked.

However, the differences when considering gays, while sometimes subtle, can be quite dramatic. Simply the fact that sexual orientation is not something physically obvious makes it different to ethnic/racial similarities.

With the option that the internet gives for everyone to become an author, it is easy to lose the good stories amongst the average, and sometimes outright bad, writings. Because there is no real moderation process at Nifty, everything gets lumped together.

Is this the real problem?

Graeme

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Dear WBMS,

I'm really pleased that you decided to begin this thread.

It tackles an issue that I?ve often mused and thought about a lot. There are many ?formularies? out there when it comes to writing and not just gay literature. But it seems that with the growth of the internet, and the ability of anyone to post anything at any time, there is this great plethora of gay literature that all appears the same.

I do agree with you that so much of gay literature is written as just that ? ?gay? literature? no plot, no decent characters, no point? it?s just GAY!!! Worse yet are the gay stories that simply pander to sex.

I suspect that part of it has to do with what I guess is a rather large, still closeted worldwide gay/bi population. It seems to me that there remains a substantial number of closeted individuals in what we think of as the ?developed? world of North America, Europe, Australia etc., not to mention most third world countries or nations where certain religions are dominant (many of the Islamic countries immediately come to mind). So writing and reading gay stories is one of the few outlets some individuals have.

Closer to home, I often think of the married gay man, with a wife, house in the suburbs, 2 or more cars in the driveway, the mandatory 2.3 kids, a job he may not be crazy about, a mortgage to pay, a monthly collection of bills, his family obligations, and possible college tuition for the 2.3 kids thinking, ?how the hell did I get into this!?

He may not have any friends to ?come out to,? he certainly can?t tell his wife (although there are some exceptions to this ? but not many), he has to stay closeted at work because god forbid that anyone ?suspects,? so he goes to the one area where he can find solace, friendship, companionship, information etc. ? that magical digital world known as THE INTERNET. Sure he may have gone to a gay bar or two and maybe he occasionally has the furtive gay sexual encounter, but sadly this is a quick fix to something more substantial and real that he needs and desires ? even more then the sex.

So he goes to his computer when no one is in the house or closes the door to his home office or bedroom (worse yet he?s out in the open and every time someone comes in the room he has to change the screen to avoid being ?caught?), and he surfs the web. He enters gay chat rooms, he goes to the gay porno sites, he discovers sites like Nifty Archive etc. and this is the only place ? sitting by himself in his chair, his nose a foot or two from the screen where he can ?experience? what is means to be gay. No wonder we still have so much progress yet to make.

The stories that he reads (or writes) if he decides to write usually fall into the tried and true ?coming out? genre: 1. Boy is an average ?normal? guy, 2. Boy discovers he is gay, 3. Boy is horror struck and scared (or even much much worse, fosters an inner feeling of self-loathing), 4. Boy somehow, someway, gets outed (usually by weird chance, accident or stupid mistake). 5. Boy deals with the retribution of that fact. 6. Boy falls in love with another Boy who LOW AND BEHOLD just happens to also be gay!!! 7. More troubles and travails continue? 8. The author runs out of steam and the story never concludes? *sigh*

But sadly WBMS this circle goes on and on and I think it will continue for a long time.

I agree we need good gay fiction. I?ve been on this soap box for years ? mysteries, detective novels, historical novels, romances, science fiction/fantasy, horror etc. maybe with a gay character or even ?gay themed?, but without all the excess baggage (and at least somewhat well written).

How many of the current gay stories have you read knowing exactly where the author was heading? how many gay stories have you read where one of the characters has the famous ?single tear streaking down the side of his face.? (I for one never had or have a single solitary tear when I cry? when I do it?s TEARS!!! As in LOTS!!!) And how many gay stories have you read where (when it?s all said and done) there?s really nothing memorable that you can recall about the tale? all of the above is true for me.

All literature has its standard tracks? and they all occasionally generate substandard product. Bad horror stories, bad straight romances, bad science fiction are all out there, but it does seem that there is an ever blooming crop of gay literature that just stinks!!!

Yes, anyone can put anything on the web and at this point I think they have! (The guy selling his soul on E-bay proved that once and for all). But I think it?s up to us to voice our opinions about it and sites like this are part of that.

One reason I decided to post TSOI on Awesome Dude is that Dude has made every attempt to create a decent, enjoyable and interesting site. The authors here (and I?d also like to think the readers) are a little more sophisticated, thoughtful, and interesting).

I think part of this goes back to the big "brew-ha-ha" I watched with great interest and sometimes amusement that Mr. Gabe and Mr. Codey started when they simply said they were looking for some positive gay role models. Many of our current crop of gay youth don?t fall into the traditional view of queers (thankfully). They are often open, out, well spoken and some are even in your face? and they really want healthy, well-adjusted and positive role models to look up to. Is this so impossible, so bad, or so difficult to deliver to them? Some of them DESPERATELY need those positive roll models.

Part of that revolves around our history and our literature. We all deserve better then ?the single solitary tear.?

One of the things the membership and management of this site have discussed is the appalling issue of gay teen suicide. Well the more out, open and honest we are the more we will become accepted (abet grudgingly in some quarters). Will and Grace never did a damn thing in promoting a healthy view of homosexuality and QE for the SG only reinforces the idea that all gays have ?good taste,? and know the ?proper? paint to splash on the wall. Uhm, do we still all think all Asians are super smart, all Hispanics are only good for being migrant workers, Native Americans sit on their reservations drinking fire water, and all African Americans can sing and dance like they used to in the old Shirley Temple movies?

I think there is a successful way to present gay literature without it falling into the "same old, same old," but that requires thought, creativity and most of all serious effort.

Yeah WBMS, I agree gay literature still has a long way to go? and so do we!!!

Jamie

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OMG WBM, that's so super! I can like totally relate to what you are saying!

Actually, I gave up on the whole genre some years ago because all I saw when I went looking for gay themed fiction was what I call textporn.

Well hell. I already knew how to have sex. That's the EASY part. I'm not sure that I knew what I was looking for in gay fiction but that wasn't enough to hold my interest.

In hindsight, my objectives were a search for information- any and all kinds of information about being gay. Relationships, meeting people, how to act- the stuff that everybody of any orientation needs to know.

That "information" is easily supplied to heterosexual people by a vast number of things that they would hardly think of as resources: books, movies, songs, poems, art, socialization, etc.

To gay people, that "information" seems like a dirty little secret that is hidden and shameful. There are barriers to it like it should be delivered in a plain brown paper bag. "You must be 18." "You must be 21." "No ID, no entry." "If you are a little bitch and wet your pants when scary things offend you, then please leave now."

There are others out there that are more than happy to "supply information". Organizations like NARTH, the American Family Association and others supply a vast amount of information about homosexuality. Unfortunately it is all wrong, distorted and the worst kind of kind of hateful propaganda that is imaginable, but their connections to religious organizations gives that information validity to a lot of people.

We have to be mindful that there are a lot of closeted kids and adults out there whose only resource for positive information about being gay is the material provided by sites like this one, Nifty, Deweywriter, CRVBOY, etc. Another site worthy of particular mention is the Mail Crew.

We can choose to see this medium as a forum to practice our craft but in a wider sense, there is a responsibility associated with it as well. We are the balancing force to decades, even centuries of anti-gay propaganda. That does not mean that we should or would even might want to become the Goebbles of the gay community. All we really have to do is tell the truth about our lives. Our humanity will speak for itself.

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Is there any such thing as a fresh plot idea in any form of literature today? Almost every conceivable idea has been explored and written about by countless authors in every genre.

It is the authors responsibility to color a plot with his ideas and thoughts. These different viewpoints are what make a story or break it. Just as everyone who witnesses an event will tell what they saw from their viewpoint, an author, whether prose or poetry, must write from the heart and express his views on the subject from his personal beliefs. I think many stories that fail, fail because the author is trying to write from what he considers, someone else?s feelings.

You can write from a number of viewpoints but the feelings have to come from you.

For us younger gays, these different opinions and ideas show us options and give us warnings we?d never realize on our own, until too late in some cases. If the story isn?t boring then the theme shouldn?t matter. Who cares if you?ve read a hundred stories about someone?s coming out and what happened? What matters is the story about this persons coming out and how he and the people around him handled it. If you stop to think about it, The Illiad, The Odyssey and Jason and The Argonauts are all the same basic plot but each is a great story in its? own right.

Authors, on this and other sites dealing with gay literature, need a place to practice their craft and improve their skills to the point they can produce great gay themed literature. They need feedback from readers to improve and increase their skills. If you enjoyed a story, or didn?t, you should let the author know and give him the reasons so he doesn?t get into any bad habits with his writing. If you can spend a half hour reading a story, surely you can spare three or four minutes to tell the author what you think about his work.

BTW?poets like feedback also!!! <big grin>

Codey[/i]

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If you can spend a half hour reading a story...

Unfortunately, most of the stories I like usually take hours, and lots of them, to read....

Re-using plot ideas and bad writing are not the same things, or even closely related. You are correct that at one level, there are very few new plot ideas being presented. However, it is not uncommon to come up with twists that give a feeling of originality or "newness" to an old idea. My simpliest example is New Brother. There is nothing really new in the plot. What I've done, which seems to be rare in this "genre", is to look at that same story from a point of view not normally considered. The plot is one that has been done a million times before (and given the number of posts on the internet, I don't think that is too much of an exaggaration), but the delivery is not.

I have read stories on Nifty which I considered to be quite good ideas, but they were not delivered well. This is often either due to a lack of technical skill of the author (eg. confusing points of view, mixing tenses, or even simply poor grammar and/or punctuation), or because the author lost the "plot" and the story started to drift away into "just more of the same".

Now, I better finish this post, or I'll run the risk of having it drift into "just more of the same" as well.....

Graeme

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First, thanks for all the LOOOOOOONG posts :) I appreciate the thought and effort you all put into them.

I was concerned when I first posted it, that I'd get some rather testy "why do you hate gays" type of posts. Obviously, I don't but people tend to get sensitive when you criticise a certain group which they're a member of. (Will all the straights here please speak up?) ::deafening silence follows::

But all three of you last posters make some very valid comments in addition to what I've already said. There IS quality out there but it's hard to find. Dude has done a basically good job of getting it here (he invited me, but I think he was heavily medicated at the time....)

There are NO bad stories here. There are stories I personally don't like, but that's personal taste. What's here is well written (though sometimes grammatically painful), and intelligently presented. I'll say the same thing about Beagle's site.

And there ARE new ideas out there. But, it's hard to do because we all have, when we write, influences in our subconscious. Although I'd like to think my story is entirely original, it owes a debt to Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere. My new forthcoming story (soon, I promise) is also original and undoubtedly owes a debt to some authors as well.

Besides what's here, there is EXTREME EXCELLENCE if you look. Driver's stories are simply the best stories online period. Bad Driver is better than good anyone else. His work is an example of what we all should aspire to be.

Although not posted here, we also have Josh Aterovis' work in Bleeding Hearts. We have Hood's P&J as well (not to bring up a sore subject, but the story was good -- and I'm just talking story here). There was Broken as well, but now our Dude has just brought it here. Dude's good about that, BTW. If we point something out he'll get it here. Rumour is he'll sell his soul for a good story.

If we all keep an eye out for QUALITY and let Dude know (after discussing it in the forum for a consensus) we can really bring this place to the forefront of its field.

I'm rambling so I'll stop now. Thanks again for all your posts, and an apology for MY long delay in getting you new material to read. Sadly, I have a life and it's interfering with my ability to write.

Cheers!

WBMS

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But all three of you last posters make some very valid comments in addition to what I've already said. There IS quality out there but it's hard to find. Dude has done a basically good job of getting it here (he invited me, but I think he was heavily medicated at the time....)

FYI -- the medication is known as "good taste".

Graeme

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haha WBM... Your post was the reason why I wanted to start writing my story here. Since I was a teen, I read stories on Nifty and other story sites that had the same running theme in it. Where the plot centralized on the "depressing" theme of being ghettoized as a homosexual. I have searched endlessly for stories that look beyond this overused plot mechanism, until I finally decided to write my own allegory on it that I've placed here and on Nifty.

I tend to enjoy stories where being gay is just an accessory to an overall plot. I also admire stories like New Brother that take a different vantage point to a plot that has altogether become a cliche for gay teen fiction.

I find that I can't sympathize for the protagonists of these homo-sob stories. I find them too self-absorbed, and it bothers me that many of them depend on stronger characters to save them from their ultra violent homophobic fathers. Maybe others have a different opinion, but I just wish the writer of such a story could give the character a little bit of backbone. Or maybe I've just grown tired of guys who can't fend for themselves. LOL.

Anyway, the plot of these stories usually make me want to punch myself. I agree with the above posters that there is a general outline that many can easily preceive within the first chapter. I like it when writers are able to pull the wool over my eyes and place a storyline twist in unexpected places. When a story revolves around one's sexuality... let's just say that there isn't anything further the writer can teach us about acceptance, love and what it takes to be an American.

I've seen a trend, not only in fiction, but in gay films, where one of the central character dies in the end. Now don't get me wrong, one of my favorite stories here includes a death scene in the end. But it's seriously becoming something of a deus ex machina to evoke some form of sympathy through that type of tragedy.

So in any case, I agree with many of you. Also, a plot doesn't have to be 'new', it just has to be creatively done well.

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Guest rusticmonk86

I've devoted myself to non-cliche writing (as far as novels go). I think you all know how against these cookie-cutter romances I am. (If you could know how violently react to stories of that type, I don't know.) So, while paying homage to the thought and process of wounded people (who may or may not rely on the stronger to help them through) and process of healing (through a more realistic kind of mentoring, therapy and love) I decide to use the basic cookie-cutter outline to spit in the faces of those whome have tried so hard to make the The Great American Gay Novel by making it more believable, less predictable, grittier, faster, and just plain fucking better.

It's a personal problem for me, really. I don't just hate the fact that these people are not only not original, but they insist on butchering the most commonly used outline of a book. Film noir, heard of that? Always the same thing. Detective films are the most common, most classic. But still . . . Momento. Books by Andrew Vachss. Those are some damn film unoriginal pieces. So I just want to rant here. And no, I'm not giving anyone props for not being cliche. I'll just give you the more than adequate disticion between artist and idiot. You, non-cliche-ists, are artists. You, butchering moron deliquints, are not.

If listing all of the piece-of-shit stories wouldn't take up all of the space on Dude's server, I would. THAT'S HOW MANY THERE ARE!! WHAT THE FUCK? I wish there was just someway to revoke their posting privelages.

But I was there too. I wrote With-Scott. The tritest, most cookie-cutter thing out there. Which is why I hate to contradict myself.

And we get better. Look at Just Don't Think I'm Not. Look at Geoff. Look at Angel.

Angel was called SQUAT. Adam would have happened upon a group of working boys (get your mind off the streets and in the gutters this time). They were squatting in an old abandoned building. Go from there . . . . To the re-write. I kept the first two chapters. That's why they seem a little different from the rest. I wrote them when I was on a train to Colorado. (Go figure.)

So, while I lament, those are bad stories. No, their terrible. Fuck, they should be burnt; because using them for toilet paper would only bet letting them touch a special thing from deep inside of you. It's good that places like Nifty allow this shit. Because, we all have to start somewhere.

Frankly, I would be outraged if any of it was allowed on AwesomeDude, lest it lend bad name and a greater volume or pooref quality work. I'm not saying that there are any bad anythings here, i'm talking ratio. Right now we have no pieces of shit to plenty of awesomeness. That's 0:1.

And, btw, put away your plugs. Put on some rubbers. Ego is an STD, too.

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Stories where the whole plot exists SOLELY because the character is gay are generally weak.

That's a tough call. The only writer I can think of off-hand who has written stories here where the fact that the characters are gay doesn't affect the story that much is David Buffet. Heck, he did a recent story awhile back set in a universe where gay and straight kids are accepted 100% -- obviously a fantasy world in the (hopefully not-too-distant) future.

But I don't think you can have a story with teenage gay characters where some element of the story doesn't involve the fear of discovery. I agree, the discovery element can't be the single most important part of the plot, but it is a pivotal element.

The first two novels I wrote did have these, even to the point where, in one story, a character accidentally killed another out of his fear of being outted at school. To me, this is natural conflict that comes out of the situation, yet it's not the central point of the story.

I do agree that it's great to have a story where there's a real solid story wrapped around the relationship. Too many gay stories -- particularly those on the Net -- are only about the relationship between the key characters, and there's no real plot beyond that. The story isn't "about" anything; it's just an episodic smorgasbord of what goes on in their daily lives, with no real point to what happens. The problem with this, to me, is that it's generally too boring and not dramatic enough. The bottom line is that the best gay stories are those where you could strip the gay element out and still have the essance of a good story left.

I'm about to start writing a new story where the fear-of-discovery won't be a vital plot element, only because there are other, more complex things going on. Like my first two novels, it's just an experiment to see what I can do in this framework. It'll have some action-adventure elements, along with some real romance, but also some violence and (I hope) unexpected developments. We'll see how it goes...

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I've devoted myself to non-cliche writing (as far as novels go). I think you all know how against these cookie-cutter romances I am.

Do tell! I'd like to read some of your stories, Mr. (or Ms.) Monk. I don't see any listed here on Awesomedude.com; can you tell me where to find them?

I agree, avoiding the cliche is an enormous problem, particularly for neophyte writers. One reason I've dragged my heels in starting my new novel is that it's a time-travel story, and a) all the good plots have almost been taken, and b) avoiding the many potential cliches is going to take a big amount of work.

As I've said before around here, though, I think the key thing is to try to surprise the reader, and never give them what they expect. I figure just doing that is a major part of any good story.

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Pecman: RusticMonk is Gabriel Duncan. If you check out his stuff, you'll find that he is indeed samauri.

Ah, that was my confusion. I did glance over Angel, and it looks very well-written.

The only thing gay about my story The Cool Green Sea is the author.

That's cool, but did I say otherwise? I'm confused. :oops:

I certainly don't think a writer has to be gay (or straight or black or anything else) to write a good gay story, even from a viewpoint radically different from his or her own. Within limits, I think the same is true of actors -- though, I guess if a white teenage male tried to portray [black female equality pioneer] Harriet Tubman in a play, that might be a stretch. :shock: But I have no problem with gay actors playing straight characters, or vice versa. The same should be true of writers; they should be able to tackle the whole bredth of human experience, including all the shades of grey -- which, to me, are what make life interesting.

BTW, be careful how you quote other people in your messages. Things can get very confusing, very fast if you quote much too much material. Just a sentence or two is enough for a quote. (And watch out for "their" and "they're" -- one of my pet peeves.)

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I think wbm is absolutely correct. I share a hate for those types of stories as well.

But perhaps we can take comfort in the fact that this same kind of thing occurs elsewhere. Anybody who's acquianted with fanfiction knows about the infamous "Mary Sue" and "Gary Stu" -- in their most rudimentary definition, they are self-inserts of the author. Oftentimes they are Perfect People who possess Superpowers and have canon characters wrapped around their Pinky. But they're invariably manifestations of the author's fantasies.

And so are the "gay" stories we have here. While fanfiction writers (stereotypically adolescent teenage girls) desire to be be bizarrely-named anime characters with obnoxious eye colors, the stereotypical teenage gay/bi writer fantasize about being in a position in which their angst is justified and a knight in shining armor would be able to swoop down and... yeah.

Of course I'm talking stereotypes here. And just as there are extremely high quality pieces of fanfiction out there, there are wonderful stories by teenage gay/bi writers (or those who would "fit" into the stereotype). Moreover, the Mary Sue/"gay" story phase can be seen as a stepping stone to better things. The difference between truly good writers and those who aren't truly good writers is that the former moves beyond this initial stage. 'Course, some (lucky) people just bypass this awkward beginning. But I'm sure most of us aren't so fortunate.

Another point... what are we looking for in stories? I, for one, am looking for a story that'll suck me in and move me. The story doesn't require gay characters to do that (though you can quibble over the fact that Sirius and Samwise are actually gays in disguise...). A story that gets mired in ridiculous and unbelievable teenage angst with a gay slant simply repels me. However, a story with gay characters can help me relate more; a story in which a boy loves a boy, a man loves a man, moves me more than a story with heterosexual love. So the core values of a good story are universal: they don't change with sexuality, gender, race, and location; they're only accessories, building onto intrinsic human emotions.

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However, a story with gay characters can help me relate more; a story in which a boy loves a boy, a man loves a man, moves me more than a story with heterosexual love. So the core values of a good story are universal: they don't change with sexuality, gender, race, and location; they're only accessories, building onto intrinsic human emotions.

Stories with boys or men loving one another also move me more, significantly more, which is one reason I do still surf for new things and check the gay fiction sections in bookstores. When reasonably well done, I PREFER reading about gay characters. I just do. I would like to see stories in all categories but with gay characters, I would like reading them MORE because the hero, the lovers, the whatever were NOT straight. I have been reading almost all of my life and the vast majority of it was about heterosexuals, whether that was central to the plot or not, it was damn sure evident to me. I'm willing, in fact, to overlook less than stellar writing to get those characters and stories.

I disagree with what I've sometimes heard said, that a gay story should be the same as a straight story--that if you just change genders, the story stays the same. Sometimes yes, usually no, in my opinion. I think there are DIFFERENCES in how men are with one another to the way they are, or would be, with a woman. AND differences in how the world looks and works if you ARE gay or bisexual that can influence non-romantic story elements. This is one reason that I prefer the author actually BE gay, although I've read some stuff I liked from authors who were, possibly, not. One 'gay' author turned out to be a woman but undeniably wrote stories that worked for me, that spoke to me, that expressed things about gay relationships or gay characters in their lives.

Yes, there are universal human themes but there are specific kinds of people and interrelationships that I WANT to see and that are WHY I read gay fiction. Race matters, sexuality matters, gender matters and I don't think anyone should be afraid of saying so in order to seem unbigoted. And I don't think its wrong to want to get my fiction, for a change, filtered through a gay lens. Maybe after I've read ten thousand excellent gay stories, I won't need it so much. But then again, maybe I will. And maybe I like the idea of NON-gays reading about gay worlds, gay people, gay lives and loves.

So for all of these reasons and many more, I love gay fiction, rough edges and all.

Kisses...

TR

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(though you can quibble over the fact that Sirius and Samwise are actually gays in disguise...)

If you mean Samwise Gamgee, he IS gay, hehe.

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~amw243/diaries/

Kisses...

TR

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Guest rusticmonk86

LMAO. You are a gem. You are more than a gem. In fact, you are so awesome that I must create my own word to describe just what you are. Scrumptulescent! You are truly scrumptulescent.

see also: tumulscent

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