Hello...

[Naiilo]

Hi there,

Well, as you should all be able to see and/or know, I am new to this forum. I found this site via jamessavik's (sp?) link on the CRVBOY.com forums. I am a uni student going for a BA in professional writing, also considering a double with publishing and a few foreign language minors.

Okay, so a little about myself: I live in the states, love to travel, and read everything i get my hands on. Right now I am reading short stories by Oscar Wilde, the Divine Comedy, Vita Nuova, Joesph Stiglitz, as well as some non fiction and the stories I find online. I have a great interest in marine biology and oceanography, not to mention other sciences, but i absolutely cannot stand physics. Other than general academics, I love art, languages, painting, photoshop, and scuba diving (even though I have only been once).

Now on to a probably important subject:

I expect that most, if not all of you guys expect me to be gay because of the nature of the site and forum. Personally I dislike labels, to call myself 'gay' would not be correct, but I am definitely not 'straight' either. In all truthfulness I am still sitting on the fence with my sexuality because I am attracted, quite heavily, to both genders. I have dated both, and prefer both the wonderful feeling at night of protecting a woman in my arms and the feeling of holding a man while I sleep. It is really a hard thing to cope with, but I am certain that in the end it will work itself out. I'm only 20, so no rush there.

Anyway, that's all for now, but I do have an issue that I will soon ask all of you about concerning 'gay culture'.

See ya',

-Naiilo

[Graeme]

Welcome, Naiilo!

I dislike labels myself, so don't be concerned about that. Everyone is an individual, with unique attributes.

Cheers!

Graeme

[Tanuki Racoon]

I dislike labels myself, so don't be concerned about that. Everyone is an individual, with unique attributes.

So if I called you an "address label" you'd hate that? Just trying to be clear?

Same for "mailing label"?

Do you hate all labels? Or just the ones that are sticky on the back?

Love,

WBMS

:)

[aj]

howdy! welcome to the happiest place on earth...well, ok, maybe not the happiest, but it's pretty damn gay. With your interest in publishing, perhaps you'll join the (rather thin) ranks of the people who are too damn lazy to do all that typing, and prefer to kibbitz about what other people write--the editors.

cheers!

aj

[JamesSavik]

Hi there,

Well, as you should all be able to see and/or know, I am new to this forum. I found this site via jamessavik's (sp?) link on the CRVBOY.com forums.  

:D

I'm very pleased that you found us! Welcome, and tell us a story.

-James

[blue]

Hello, Naiilo. Don't try to define yourself one way or another, that'll work itself out. If you like both, that's fine too. Just know it's OK to like either or both.

[Tragic Rabbit]

howdy! welcome to the happiest place on earth...well, ok, maybe not the happiest, but it's pretty damn gay. With your interest in publishing, perhaps you'll join the (rather thin) ranks of the people who are too damn lazy to do all that typing, and prefer to kibbitz about what other people write--the editors.  

cheers!

aj

Hehe. Naughty, naughty, AJ. Though I challenge the idea that writing a story is just typing, if it were, it wouldn't take so damn long. But you know that.

On the sexuality thing, I think Kinsey made it clear that most people are bisexual, that there's a continuum of sexuality [as defined by fantasies and sensual experiences of all kinds as well as 'relationships'] and that it is somewhat fluid through one's life. I usually call myself homosexual or gay but sometimes just say 'queer' because, to me, that word encompasses more of who I am. I have had sex with women, lived with women, also with men and have had attractions to both since before I started school. That I now significantly prefer men is more a product of emotional interactions with men and women that I've had, I find that men are generally better intimate company in and out of bed.

Maybe that awareness, of the difference inside me, colored how I saw myself in society, in that social constructions, in life, in film, on television, in books, clearly indicated, even to a very young mind, that whatever I was, was not the 'norm' nor acceptable. Which is a very bad message and I'm sorry its the one I received. It doesn't lend itself to self confidence as one grows up. Which is yet another reason why this site is so great, the stories and interactions allow us to support each other and send that other kind of message, that this other thing, being queer or gay or homosexual or questioning or bisexual or WHATEVER, is a fine thing to be and doesn't disqualify you for any perks of human associations. Someone's sexuality, whether gay or BDSM or whatever, or their gender presentation, typical or atypical masculinity for instance, does not bar them from the tribe...or make discourtesy or discrimination acceptable.

A young friend of mine from the Philippines got into town recently as is hanging around while I show him places and just generally let him see people that are atypical behaving normally. It always amazes me how just being around others, of the group I call Queer but has many names, can go a long way fast in improving someone's self esteem. What? all these queer type people do normal things like getting married, dating, raising kids, going to picnics or parties, having coffee and reading the paper, and even if sometimes you can 'tell' they are different, in essence, they are just people, acting like people, not particularly better or worse than anyone else? Yep. Just amazing how meaningful that is for someone who hasn't had the experience. Hell, its still meaningful for me and I'd never choose to live outside of or far from places where I can experience that, it just isn't good for my soul. AD is one of the online places that is good for my soul, and yours too, I hope.

Kisses...

TR

[Graeme]

I dislike labels myself, so don't be concerned about that. Everyone is an individual, with unique attributes.

So if I called you an "address label" you'd hate that? Just trying to be clear?

Same for "mailing label"?

Do you hate all labels? Or just the ones that are sticky on the back?

Love,

WBMS

:)

Tsk, tsk. I would have expected an author of your ability to be able to read....

The word "hate" never appeared in what I wrote. I used the word "dislike" which has a quite different meaning.

Having said, I probably would hate it if you called me an "address label".....

Graeme :-)

[Naiilo]

Okay, so here is the beginning of a list fo replys:

To Graeme: Thanks for the warm welcome!

To WBMS: I don't exactly hate labels, but I do dislike the implied social meanings attached to them. I have friends that label themselves as strange things like "straightedge"(that one is kind of ironic because the kid is so obnoxiously, well not to use a label, but gay), "goth", "punk", "preppy" and the sort. To categorize onesself, as with social labels, is to restirct yourself from experiencing something new, exciting and different.

Also- If you like you can call me "Address Label", or something similar, but in a crowd I cannot guarantee a response.

To AJ: I have written poetry and short stories, but I don't think that I would be comfortable posting them just yet. The creative stuff I write for myself, the technical stuff I write for others. Thanks for the invite though.

To jamessavik: Thanks for the hello and the heads-up on Jamie's "Scrolls of Icaria". You're right-It's fantastic.

To blue: Hello, I think it's very nice of you to take care fo your grandmother like you do. And don't be worried about that closet door of yours, I hear they disintegrate with time.

To TR: I have read some on Kinsey, and some of it makes sense. There is a new film I'd like to see about him, but haven't had the time. Much like you, I have found myself not to be the 'norm' as they call it. Most of my family and friends think so too. But I don't concentrate on what's normal and what is not. My goal in life is to have fun, find something I love to do, find someone to love, and experience as much as possible. Right now I am in the process of obtaining a passport so I can experience other cultures. My uni has a summer term course taught in Rome that I'd like to take, not to mention the internships and such overseas that sound fantastic.

Ok, I think that is everyone...Back to MacroEcon homework.

-Naiilo[/b]

[Rad]

Hey Naillo!

Don't sweat over your sexuality man. I read that wether you're gay or not is not because whom you slept with but whom you fall in love to.

Wow, such a complete description. Any favourite story here?

Cheers L)

Rad

[Naiilo]

Rad: I agree with the philosphy that declared sexuality is not important, but just that you fall in love is. The all-over attachment we call love is a fantastic thing. I can't say much more based upon my own experiences.

--As far as favorite stories are concerned, I have read quite a bit of what's on awesomedude.com already. Like I said, I will read anything I can get my hands on, and I do. I can say that Jamie's "Scrolls of Icaria" has caught my eye more than several other stories. I happen to like the character development and the fresh feel of a story that is not set in contemporary times. Other than that I won't reveal the others I've read and my thoughts of them. I do want to reccommend that some of you read the Will Carter series featured on crvboy.com. I'd read just a little bit when the story sucked me in. It is a little dramatic, but worth the read. That's all for now.

See ya,

-Naiilo

[The Mail Crew]

With your interest in publishing, perhaps you'll join the (rather thin) ranks of the people who are too damn lazy to do all that typing, and prefer to kibbitz about what other people write--the editors.

This is Aaron. I know I can't speak for other editors, but as for me, I'm highly offended by that remark. It makes assumptions about all editors.

I'm editing "New Brother" for Graeme, and I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you that my editing is not a "damn lazy" effort. In fact, thorough editing can sometimes be more effort-intensive than doing "all that typing". I also edit for other authors, and for one of them I probably spend more time editing that he spends writing (doing "all that typing").

I've read on other sites stories whose authors name and thank their editors. Sometimes I wonder if some of those editors are lazy, or even inept, but I always try to give them the benefit of the doubt, hoping that time limitations affect their editing.

There are differences in effort level among editors, but how can you accuse any of us of being lazy? We editors are an under-appreciated lot. Right, Blue?

Thanks for reading my rant,

Aaron

[JamesSavik]

 We editors are an under-appreciated lot.  Right, Blue?

Yes you are! I would be absollutely lost, LOST I tell you, without my editor talonrider (Jan).

Editors are critical! Without them, the pace of our stories progress and posting would slow down and the quality would suffer.

Aaron knows how much I respect a good editor-- I sent him congrats for his work with New Brother along with the note that I sent to Graeme.

Aaron, Blue and AJ are excellent editors and I don't think you guys are lazy. I happen to know that all three of you are talented writers TOO.

I challenge ALL three of you to come up with a story over the summer!

Oh come on-- just one. Pretty pleeze?

-James

[blue]

Hey, Aaron, I know aj meant his comment humorously. He edits and writes, so he has a good idea of the work involved in editing, and how it contributes to an author's work, from both the editor's and the author's sides.

Also, I know how talented an editor you are, Aaron. I've seen what you can do to improve authors' work.

===== Blue's Rambling Editing Editorial Op/Ed =====

::::: As an editor, I should point out the piece below is off the cuff and certainly not tightly polished as an essay. :::::

I have seen work before and after it gets edited, by various authors and editors.

Readers would be surprised at how even small changes can impact a story, and how much a good author-editor relationship can improve the story, because it helps inspire the author as well as resolve problems the author either missed or wasn't sure how to fix right then. A story can change very little or quite drastically. Readers would also be surprised to see how creative the authors are in writing their original stories and in coming up with new or alternative solutions.

Editors and authors tend to be heavy readers, people who are very aware of what makes a story work, how it's structured in plot and characters.

A good editor does much more than proofread and check grammar and spelling, though those are special skills too. He suggests changes and makes comments on what and why something didn't quite work. An author uses that feedback to fix the tiny flaws and rebuild the major errors.

A good editor is both supportive and tough, because an author is putting out art that's very heartfelt. Authors can be sensitive and stubborn at the same time. So an editor has to be kind and courteous enough so his comments don't sting too much, but firm and strong-willed enough to insist when it matters.

A good editor also has to be conscious of an author's style, and able to make changes that stay within that style. A good editor's work is invisible.

::::: The opinions expressed are those of this writer-editor, and do not necessarily reflect the views of this site, the management, or anyone else in the known universe. :::::

[blue]

Aaron -- I'd love to see you write another story. I volunteer to edit for you, if you'd like.

I hope your finals go well or went well.

[Jamie]

It always amazes me how some of these threads take on a life of their own. What started as a ?Hello? from ?Naiilo? has moved to a discussion of editors and editing! Oh well? anyway? allow me to respond as I sit here recuperating from abdominal surgery!!!

(No biggie just had my gallbladder removed on Monday ? so I?m a prisoner at home for a few days.)

I normally don?t like to speak for others, but I will make an exception here.

Knowing AJ as well as I do, I think I can say that I believe his remark was meant as a joke. Of course in the cyber universe words are often cold marks on a paper, and one doesn?t have the advantage of seeing the person?s face, hearing chuckle in their voice or the inflections they make. But I am fairly sure that what he said was very ?tongue-in-cheek,? and certainly not meant to offend anyone.

I refer back to my post ? ?5 May TSOI ? Update and Thanks? ? as background for my feelings about editing and editors. (But if you don?t want to head there, just read Blue?s comments on being an editor? they are correct!)

I for one can state that if anyone is NOT lazy it is AJ who contributes great amounts of time and effort on the material I send him (probably much more then I have a right to even ask). And I know his statement was not a real world reflection of his feelings. I respect ALL editors who are REAL editor?s not just proofreaders. It takes a great deal of time, effort AND intelligence to successfully edit other?s work. It does indeed take just as much talent and skill to be an editor as it is to be a writer.

It?s very much a symbiotic relationship ? we each need the other half of the equation. Sometimes we may disagree with each other ? even argue, but it is a necessary relationship. And one that can be quite productive when everything is working the way it?s meant to.

By the way I just finished Chapter 26 of TSOI. I was a bit worried that removal of my gallbladder would lessen my writing ability (I thought maybe my creative talent flowed in the bile my liver creates!) But thankfully no? I?m still the same old Jamie except now part of me sits on the shelf in a jar in some medical research lab! Oh to be whole again!

So cut my editor little slack and understand it was just a joke!

regards,

Jamie

[EleCivil]

Interupting the editing talk for a second, I just want to swing through and say hi to the new guy. Hey, Naiilo.

And Jamie - de-gallbladified, eh? Get well soon, dude.

Bah, I've got to work on getting lower-case "dude" out of my AD forums lexicon. Gets confusing.

[Graeme]

Aaron,

When I read that original post, I took it be a tongue-in-cheek comment. I can't remember if it was before or after Jamie's post in another thread about the editing that AJ did for him, but I was aware that AJ does quite a bit of editing, and so was talking from that side of the fence.

There is no doubt in my mind that New Brother is a vastly better story due to your editing. The last chapter you sent back to me was an excellent example of that. Also, as stated above, most, if not all, readers will not notice that work you've done.

It may not happen enough, but every so often we writers do get off our collective backsides and publicly thank our editors. We are all aware of how important you are, and how much we need you.

So, thanks again, and I hope this didn't distract you too much from your schoolwork. (I'm constantly amazed at how much you work you put into the editing process AND still find time for the other things you do).

Graeme

PS: The above has NOT been edited by Aaron or reviewed in any way. All mistakes are the responsibility of the author, who will cringe in embarassment when they are pointed out to him....

[The Mail Crew]

This is Aaron, again. I want to thank all of you who wrote supportive comments about editing and editors, and your kind words about me. After re-reading this thread and after reading some e-mails I've gotten since my post, I do believe that AJ's comment was made in jest.

Last night all of us were worried about a good friend who was to have a cancerous kidney removed this morning, and somehow I let that worry cause me to get "bent out of shape" -- as my dad would say -- by AJ's comment. I apologize to AJ, Jamie and anyone else who has taken offense to my post. BTW, that surgery was delayed until late this afternoon. Early news is that the cancer had apparently not spread and all malignancy was successfully removed. Time will tell.

My time limitations keep me from reading all of the posts here, but I've just now read the TSOI May 5 thread, and I'm impressed, Jamie. Thanks for your accurate description of an editor's work.

Thanks, Graeme, for your kind remarks. If it weren't for school and all my other activities, I'd be getting chapters back to you sooner. You're always patient, and I appreciate that.

I also owe everyone an apology for changing the focus of the thread away from welcoming Naiilo, labels, etc.

Welcome, Naiilo!

Best regards to everyone,

Aaron

[blue]

Don't sweat it, Aaron. I expect AJ will say the same, particularly with your reasons. That's enough to get anybody all bent out of shape. I hope your friend will do fine with whatever follow-up treatment is expected.

Also, my experience with boards is that threads wander on tangents and back again.

:hugs: Chin up, bud, you're fine.

-----

Hey, Naiilo, if this all seems mildly chaotic, well, it's just how things are. I suspect this is one of the better places to hang out on the web. Because issues tend to be discussed and dealt with in a mostly positive way.

You'll get used to us, I hope.

[Naiilo]

Hey, Naiilo, if this all seems mildly chaotic, well, it's just how things are. I suspect this is one of the better places to hang out on the web. Because issues tend to be discussed and dealt with in a mostly positive way.

You'll get used to us, I hope.

][][][Removed][][][

-Naiilo

[blue]

Sounds good. Feel free to ask questions, too. Chances are you're not the only one asking them of himself or herself.

[Guest rusticmonk86]

Hey Naiilo

* waves *

[Jamie]

No need for an apology Aaron, I understand how something can get misunderstood - especially on-line.

I've done the exact same thing myself. So no harm, no foul... and certainly NO bad feelings on my end.

BTW I enjoyed your first story very much... and will be very interested in any others you produce in the future.

May your friend's surgery be safe, successful and painless as possible... having just gone under the knife myself, I can relate...I hope that things go well!

warm regards

Jamie

[Rad]

Hello all!

I just wanna add my thoughts here.

Editor's job is really important because I've read several stories that really need a good editing. The stories are good but can be better. Having said that, Joseph Man at

www.jpoet.4t.com [links available here at awesomedude] is looking for an editor. Please read his story, The Closing, it's good and he can use some help.

For all editors out there! I send you my heartfelt thanks! You make my favourite stories better!

To Jamie,

You're recovering from a surgery?! I hope you're fine now. I was stunned reading that announcement.

Cheers!

Rad