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Three Derby men guilty over gay hate leaflets

Three men have been found guilty of stirring up hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation after handing out anti-homosexual leaflets.

The leaflets, distributed outside a mosque in Derby and put through letterboxes, called for homosexuals to be given the death sentence.

Ihjaz Ali, 42, Kabir Ahmed, 28 and Razwan Javed, 27, were found guilty at Derby Crown Court.

Mehboob Hussain, 45, and Umar Javed, 38, were cleared of the charges.

A jury found the three Muslim men guilty in the first prosecution of its kind since legislation came into force in March 2010.

The court heard how the leaflets, called The Death Penalty?, showed an image of a mannequin hanging from a noose and quoted Islamic texts.

The leaflets said capital punishment was the only way to rid society of homosexuality.

Prosecutors said the leaflet was one of three distributed by the group as it tried to organise a protest against Derby's Gay Pride event in July 2010.


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You can't remove a behavior from society if it is caused by something within that society or if it benefits that society, without changing the society in some far-reaching, fundamental way. You also cannot remove a behavior in society if it has an environmental or biochemical or genetic basis, without removing all factors that cause it, or all who exhibit the behavior or trait, or all who carry the trait as a potential for their offspring.

Before someone would suggest getting rid of homosexuality that way, perhaps they need to examine their society to see why homosexuality might exist in it. Does it serve some societal or biological purpose? Is it perhaps a safety value on overpopulation, or a way to support cohesion within groups in that society?

Just what, in other words, are you trying to eliminate? What are you trying to do?

Let's say instead of homosexuality, it's some other behavior. Would you propose to eliminate some other behavior by getting rid of anyone who behaves that way? Did they kill someone, that you'd want to kill them? Do they have some other benefit to society besides the one behavior you'd kill them for?

Or it's some other biological or genetic trait, if that's what explains homosexuality, would you kill, get rid of, everyone who either exhibits that trait or carries the genes that cause that trait? -- Be careful! Not only do you eliminate the homosexual, but you've just killed his parents and siblings, because most of them carry the genes too, if it's genetic. If it's a simple trait, a single pair of genetic alleles, then that's as many as three-fourths of all offspring plus the parents, who carry the alleles that might create an individual who expresses that genetic trait or phenotype. (That's basic genetic biology, available in any high school or college textbook. I do remember some of freshman biology.)

Let's see, while we're at it, who else should we get rid of? Hmm.... Well, that could get quite messy. Creating that master race could be hard work, limiting it down to that select few. Now what if you've just eliminated something unexpected but necessary? What if you've narrowed the gene pool down to a puddle that can only breed so much before it becomes inbred and it dries up? Aw, too bad. Just who gets to be in the club? Blond or brown hair or ginger? Brown or blue or green eyes? What height and weight factors? What facial features? Shall we get rid of everyone who has a physical condition, a handicap? Hmm, you seem to be squinting, are you sure you don't need glasses? Oops, so sorry, out you go!

That's the absurdity of it. That if you say it's inborn or from some factor in the environment, you eliminate there. If it's behavioral, you eliminate there but you'd have to eradicate from the social causes. Either way, you are sure doing a lot of disposal of living human beings. I believe that is frowned upon in most nations and most religions.

It isn't sensible to do that. Moderate and thinking people would see that. Those who don't are not really using their brains, and probably not reading through the texts they say they follow.

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