Sex!

[blue]

I saw this thread while I was away from the forum. (If the internal logic of that sentence escapes you, you're not alone. ;) I was lurking.)

I tried writing out a couple of replies, thinking I'd have something original to contribute, some new angle or something I haven't said before when this subject came up. I wasn't having much luck. It remains to be seen. ;)

I prefer relationships. Whether it's friendships, the need for family (biological or fostered/adopted or chosen family), or couples (boyfriend or girlfriend, dating or partnered). To me, that's more what it's ultimately about. I've often said I value character relationships and development, plot arcs, good storytelling, more than sex, and sex is more private. I've also said how it can get to be, how many ways does Tab A fit into Tab B, with a lot of piston action and funny noises involved.

Well, yes. I thnk I've also said that the sexual side of it is important when it's showing affection, friendship, support, real love. Or at least, I think I've said that. (I just did, if I haven't already. Heh.)

Sure, sex can be incidental, casual, between friends, and it's been known to happen between strangers. That doesn't necessarily make it less meaningful. It can sure have an impact on the rest of someone's day or life. That casual take may not mean it is without love or meaning, either. But let's face it, if it's between strangers, a one time thing, or incidental, casual, then it may not be as deeply meaningful to those involved as other lovemaking. (And I'm noting the nuance between "having sex" and "making love".) It's still there, whether physical release or deep emotional expression. (The two are not mutually exclusive.)

Blue, what on earth are you getting at? You're either talking out of both sides of your mouth or talking in circles. Make sense. Don't you have a theme?

Yes, I do. The theme is that it's more varied than one or the other. Love and sex do come in many kinds, varieties, degrees of expression or meaning. I'd hope they are meaningful, even the most casual kinds, and I'd hope they were good for the people involved.

Sometimes, in life and in stories, they are not, though. That can have something to convey too.

But enough of that. What about another take on it?

DaBeagle's posted letter says a lot. It says gay-friendly stories are needed. That's why there are sites out there, not just AD or CW or DaBeagle, but lots of them. There are lots of different points of view; read any post on this forum, and every single person has a different viewpoint or two. ;)

Tracy and a couple of others brought up something though. Experience, or lack of it. So, at the risk of more "me," or repeating, here goes, and it may surprise you all some.

(I sat a long time and tried to write further in some short version, but it kept going on and on and on.)

OK, my point was simple. I don't have a ton of real-world experience in the sex department. Plenty of interest in the subject though. But the difference between what we might like to happen and what actually does happen can be wide indeed.

Aside from real world experiences, actual or almost or missed chances -- (1) That talk with my dad missed a whole lot of things. It was barely a talk at all. It definitely did not cover two boys together. (2) Experience, good and bad, did and didn't go there, was with other boys. (3) There was much confusion about and a little interest in some very nice, pretty, smart, sweet girls. But no real spark. Oh, I can get nervous and blush and like a girl. But, um, the last time I had that usual male response about a girl was, uh, around 13 or 14, and it was not so spectacular. I was a lot more interested in boys. That got my motor going. (But that upbringing and not so great experiences made me feel guilty after.)

I did do some reading from the local library and bookstores, during my teens and then at college. Thank goodness for sex ed at school, health class, and biology, and those friends, or I probably never would've learned anything about sex, straight or gay. I wasn't the athletic type. I liked swimming a lot. But locker rooms were an exercise in not looking and not being seen, for me. (No one explained if you look, you might find a friend looking back. No one explained that things like swimming or wrestling might have unexpected pluses. For a smart kid, I really wasn't thinking it through, was I?)

In college, I learned several things from extra-curricular activities, or the lack of them. (1) Wow, did I go into the closet, bad. (2) I did my best to avoid any "extra-curricular, intramural" activities with other guys. My mistake, for sure. (3) When I finally admitted to myself, self, you're gay as anything, I hid in the closet and slammed the door hard. Also not good. In fact, so not good that I managed to flunk out of my scholarship and the university. My grades got so spectacularly bad, they politely asked me not to attend there again. Ahem. During then, I didn't come out, didn't seek help (it's a college with lots of single handsome guys, fer cryin' out loud, what on earth were you thinking?) ...I am sure I became clinically depressed and suicidal during then. -- I still aced French Lit and Calculus and Comp. Sci, but made a D in Data Structures. -- And I am probably lucky that while at college or when back at home, I didn't become one of those statistics we have heard too much about. (4) However, I wrote two small, incomplete stories, *gay* stories on my computer. Hah, if only the internet had existed yet. ... And when I shoved myself in the closet, I did something really foolish: I tore up the paper copies and erased the diskette. Those two stories were actually pretty good. (They were remarkably not long-winded, either.)

Along came the internet. I got brave enough to type in the word, gay, in a search box. But I was somehow scared someone would come knocking on my door for looking for gay things. Heh. Yes, really. I learned a lot. I learned some about anatomy, for instance. I also learned there is a difference between artistry and a desperately haunted expression worse than any of my own internalized issues.

But then I also discovered gay stories. Well, now that was truly enlightening. Way better than sex ed, lemme tell ya. Fun, interesting, exciting. Very exciting. But eventually, you realize that there isn't someone with you to enjoy that with, and that is quite unexciting. Still, it was pretty good. (Wow, you mean you can do that? Really? Whoa. Cooool.) ... Though some things, no thank you, not my thing.

But in with that reading, and learning, was the Big Discovery: Yes, Ben, there are other gay guys out there. Gay girls too. Other things you hadn't ever guessed about. Those gay guys? They want to be with guys, like you do. More important, the big discovery -- They want the same things you do. Friends, a family, a special someone to fall in love with and make love, not just some quickie here today and gone tomorrow thing. (Boyfriend? It might as well have been a new concept from Mars.) They want a good job, a home, family, a partner, stability, children (gay people can have kids?) -- In short, these stories were showing me other gay people not only existed, but that they wanted the same things I did, nice, normal, everyday, ordinary, even boring stuff, but the wonderful stuff that there is in life. Oh yeah, and they wanted the same kinds of sex I wanted too. Say, that sounds fantastic, sign me up. I, uh, I'm ... I'm gay. ... But I still didn't know anyone to talk to or be with. (We will just ignore the glaring fact I live in a major city and even I had heard where one of the big gay neighborhoods was. Eyesight and self-image, and at the time, life experience or lack of it, entered into that heavily.)

So, that lead to discovering a couple of stories in particular. AwesomeDude did not yet exist. I was also not done growing. And life was about to take a massive wrong turn. -- By then, my mom had died. But then my dad died. Everything went haywire. Progress in life and towards accepting myself as a gay man stopped. (And I've just realized this has become a "This is your life" confession again. Well, screw it, you're stuck with it. Deal.)

Things were OK for a while, then I had trouble. Alone at home, I very nearly became a statistic. But I had read the first chapter or two of a story some time before. Instead of becoming a statistic, I went back and found that story. It's Grasshopper's Just Hit Send. I reread it. Started into it. My self-image right about then was very poor. ("I'm ugly, nobody would want me. I'm handicapped. I'm gay.") When I got to the point in there where Danny is thinking these same sorts of things, becomes desperate, and hits Send...and gets an answer from a boy who also needs a friend...and then they meet...and Jordan accepts Danny and loves him.... I have said before, that story probably saved my life that day. I read everything that had been posted up until then. Whoever Grasshopper is, I will always value that story. It helped when I needed it badly. It helped my self-image, as a handicapped person and as a gay man. -- Just Hit Send does include some sex between Danny and Jordan, but it's from their growing love for each other, and from their need for a friend. It's integral to the story.

(And yes, if you'd noticed, I had read several explicit stories on Nifty and liked them. -- For some of us, that is a form of "Gay Sex Ed" and learning it's OK to be that way and you can find other people who feel the same way you do, love and sex both.)

It would be a little later before I'd find another story, which led to my very first internet comment on a gay story, which led to some guy called Dude. Soon after, Dude started AwesomeDude with a few friends, myself among them. -- I was not out yet. -- A few months later, I reached a turning point, crisis. This time, though, I was smarter. I went to someone for help. I knew I wasn't doing well and didn't want to be suicidal like before. Some time into that, I found myself admitting I thought I was, no, I was, gay. And immediately wondered if I'd be accepted or rejected for it. (It was my minister.) Heheh, he was fine with it. In fact, didn't I know his daughter was a lesbian. Well, uh, no, I didn't. Um...would I have to stop choir, or subbing for Sunday School youth classes? Surprise: No, you're just fine. I was stunned to be accepted instead of rejected. Not elated, just stunned.

It was a few months later that Codey posted on the forum, and I was volunteering at AD then. We misunderstood each other over something, and when we'd worked that out, it started a friendship. I began editing for him. Codey, Dude, and I talked about a site, started from Codey's pages here at AD. That became Codey's World. I volunteered there, and it gave me an anchor, a port in a storm, and a purpose, a way to grow. (I miss Codey a great deal still.) It was a bright spot, as my grandmother's health went from so-so to bad to worse. Finally, it got so bad I was pretty much 24/7 dealing with that.

It is now some months later. Here I am. (I've omitted some relevant things, too, such as one friend out in real life, it seemed like a good idea, but wasn't. Or a few other cases of missed or never-were opportunities.)

My original point in all the history there was to say that there can be a need for, a purpose for, sex in stories. It can be fun and exciting. It can also be educational if you need to know what's possible, good and bad. (But I'd add, those are stories. You also need factual information for health and hygiene.) It can also be an affirmation: Yes, you can be gay and happy and find someone who feels like you do, wants what you want, and uh, yes, you can have good sex as well as a good relationship. You can even find true love.

Yes, that brings me back to the point about the importance of relationships over sex. Sex can be great. I'd like more of it in my own life, in fact. But a real relationship, both friendship and love, is what changes it from just having sex to making love, to really having a partner. So -- I don't object to sex in stories. But sex has its place in a much larger picture, is what I'm really saying. I personally want the relationship more, in my own life, as well as in stories. Uh, to put it very bluntly, I can take care of at least part of that by myself. (Not the same as with someone else, though.) But I'd much rather have love and friendship and find a partner. The relationship is what does it for me in a story, even if that steamy, racy, sexy stuff can be diverting.

The editor in me would point out this is too dang long and doesn't clearly get to any one point. It's what I've got at the moment.

This is also a somewhat different position than I usually take on this subject.

:: facepalm :: My subconscious just looked at that sentence and had a really good laugh at my expense.

My subconscious often knows more about this stuff than my conscious, however, or at any rate, my subconscious is often more comfortable and well-adjusted than my conscious mind. So...methinks I doth protest too much.

If any of the above makes any sense to you, dear reader, it is probably by sheer accident. ;) Please consider the editor really ought to self-edit more often. I got going and couldn't stop. (I heard that! You guys and your minds....)

[blue]

After finishing this post, I saw the headline in the forum: "Sex! by blue" Golly! Yes, I found this inordinately funny on many levels. Possibly, so would anyone I've had any of those "experiences" with. :rotfl:

[Lugnutz]

AHH! Sex! by Lugnutz. He's such a whore.............