Perk up...iGod is here

[Chris James]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/rejoice-edifi-first-christian-tablet-190513571.html

Does anyone really believe there is a need for something like this? The God business seems to have lost it's focus, no suprise there.

[Merkin]

I would be interested to know who will be tracking your every move on it.

[DesDownunder]

The original iTablet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk

[EleCivil]

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:24

So...are these guys going to going to be giving all their profits from this thing to the poor, or are they planning on getting that camel through the needle?

Quick background - when I was a kid, I was a faily hardcore Christian. Like, my idea of a fun weekend was to read the Book of Revelations and try to match it up to current events to predict the apocalypse. Sunday school, church, Wednesday night church service, church youth groups, Vacation Bible School, etc. - I lived and breathed Christianity, to the exclusion of everything else.

There were two Christian bookstores in my hometown - One was a tiny, rundown shack owned by an elderly couple. It was always dusty and dark, and the only way to know it wasn't an old toolshed was a small sign outside that said simply "BIBLE." They dealt in books, and only books. Every Biblical translation you could think of, as well as apologetics, interpretive analyses, etc. There was even a stash of "serious" literature that they kept behind the counter, that they would only give to you if you asked for it by name. When I went in there with my Dad, it felt like we were secret agents passing information across the enemy lines - an apt metaphor, since I was raised to believe that "Real Chrisitans" were a small resistance movement hiding in The Devil's territory. Point being, it was taken seriously - "This is important, and it needs to be treated with dignity and respect."

The other bookstore was a huge, brightly lit, and covered with advertisements for a local Christian radio station. There were a few pop-religion books, two or three kinds of Bible, and a MILLION pieces of random junk with crosses or Bible verses painted on them. Christian breath mints, Christian bookmarks, Christian yo-yos, Christian cup holders, videos and action figures of Christian super-hero "Bibleman." Generic Christian rock playing over the speakers. Everything marked up, more expensive. Setting foot in there felt...wrong. Even at eight or nine years old, it freaked me out. It just seemed so insincere. This stuff they were selling didn't have anything to do with the religion I believed in - it just took a bunch of Dollar Store merch and slapped Christian symbols on them. It took something that I deeply believed in and turned it into a gift shop.

Now, I'm no longer a Christian, but stories like this still rub me the wrong way. They're taking something serious - the search for ultimate cosmic truth - and turning it into a quick cash-in. They're taking Jesus and slapping him on a consumer product like Superman on a lunchbox. No dignity. No respect.

...Also, I hear that once the battery on this thing dies, it take three whole days before it recharges.

[Cole Parker]

Oh, that was bad, E/C. Very bad.

C

[Camy]

...Also, I hear that once the battery on this thing dies, it take three whole days before it recharges.

Snort.

You get content from the app store on his cloud (2nd on the left and travel 'till morning).

[Paul_and_Paco]

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:24

I have been told by my resident Christian, who is a Roman Catholic, the translation of this parable was incorrect. It is not a camel through the needle's eye, but a rope. That makes more sense when you think about it.

As for donating profits... are you kidding? Tax-free profits I might add.

[colinian]

I have been told by my resident Christian, who is a Roman Catholic, the translation of this parable was incorrect. It is not a camel through the needle's eye, but a rope. That makes more sense when you think about it.

As for donating profits... are you kidding? Tax-free profits I might add.

Does that mean they can double-dip? Take the income (including profits) off their tax form, then an additional deduction for a contribution to a charity? Probably not (the IRS is not that dumb), but it makes one wonder.

I was raised Roman Catholic (sort of; my family is what's called "Holiday Catholics" meaning we went to church on Easter and Christmas). I went to Catholic elementary school from kindergarten through the fifth grade and went to church most Sundays (they took roll in church). After fifth grade I told my folks that starting sixth grade I was going to the public intermediate (middle) school. They said that was fine with them.

Anyway, I never heard the "eye of the needle" thing in school or in church. I think I was deprived. If it had been told to us in school in Catechism class it would have given me one more thing to argue about with the priest (the school had all lay teachers, so Catechism was taught twice a week by a priest from the church next to the school). I wasn't very popular with the priests when I was in the fifth grade and had arrived at the age of reason and understanding (9 to 10 years old).

Colin

[blue]

One translation also talks about removing the "beam" (like a 2x4 or split plank) or some sort of log or board, out of someone's eye. Um, no. The real translation was a speck or splinter, not a whole 2x4. But some people jump up and down and froth at the mouth over things like that about their "literal" translations. It doesn't occur to most folks like that that those "literal" wordings have to rely on translations, and then the person is supposed to think about it and interpret it, to study and discuss it with others, which, by the way, is what the Jews and early Christians did.

I know what EleCivil means about the pop-music, pop-souvenir style Christian bookstores. I went into one large bookstore a few months ago to order something because a casual friend was going to be ordained a ministry. (Different tradition of what constituted ordination from what I was raised with, but OK, I was still going to honor that friend.) I did a good bit of looking, then had to chase down someone. Nope, they didn't carry that, they'd have to order anything like that. Huh? It's like, an ordinary thing for a new minister. Nope, gotta order it. Wow. You'll sell all this other stuff, some of which is mindful and spiritual, and some of which is just trinkets, and yet you don't stock items for a new minister or church, in a city this size, one of the few Christian bookstores? Wow.

I grew up in a denomination somewhere between moderate and conservative, some liberal elements. Being gay wasn't so much openly railed against as it was simply not talked about, period. Sex in general, too. Ehh, but anyway. But in that tradition, I grew up in a family where it wasn't "religion" but "faith," as in, it permeated every aspect of life, and it wasn't intended to be mere ritual, but from deep inside, because you believed it, lived it, cared.

I also have friends and family in other Christian denominations, including more fundamentalist/evangelical groups like EleCivil is talking about, and folks in the Roman Catholic tradition too.

When I was a kid, one of the first times I had feelings for another boy was for a friend in a Charismatic group that had joined our church. Oh, boy. And yes, those folks were very much more strict than my church's beliefs, and oh my, a boy cannot, um, express feelings for another boy like that. (Hey, I just thought we were really close, brotherly love...I kissed him. Then got a lecture (from him) on why that was wrong. Sorry, my bad. Although we did stay friends.) (It was a big clue, the first real clue I had gay feelings. I just didn't know yet.) Their group wasn't from within our denomination, and that later caused a split within that particular congregation. That was that. I'd later run into that same friend.

But from this, and from other friends and relatives, yes, I know the kinds of things EleCivil is talking about. -- And I have friends in other faiths, and atheists and agnostics and pagans. I have had conversations with some of them that I think were really enlightening on both sides, and those friends I think are truly good people.

And yes, it's very possible for gay folks to come from that strict background, whichever faith it is. -- But in general, a gay person tends to find some way to reconcile their "gayness" and whatever faith they grew up in, or else they find something close to it. That, or they find something else altogether to fit them.

Being gay deals with some very deep down, basic and instinctual parts of a person's being, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. You can't really ignore or suppress that any more than you can ignore or suppress the other basic drives and needs of a human being, or you wind up with some real problems to overcome.

I went through a phase in college where I got really (really!) uptight and religious. Well, we'll just show everyone (including me and including God) just how good we are, right? Uh-huh. Hey, maybe if I pray really hard, am a really good boy, and don't even *think* about that gay stuff, or do anything (you know, like solo even) well, surely I'll "grow out of it" or something like that, right? (Let's never mind that I was in college and very stressed and had lots of teenage hormones going on there, right?) Well, golly! Guess what happened? I wasn't all that successful in (1) not thinking about it; (2) not doing anything about it (solo even) ; (3) and even when I was, well, that just meant that my body and emotions took care of the need in dreams and, er, the expected result of when a healthy, physically mature male goes without and dreams. (Oh, come on, you figure it out.) ...And you know, when you wake up from a dream or two like that and there's incontrovertible evidence, well...yes, it dawns on even the most uptight, fervent young believer that no, perhaps he's the one wrong about his assumptions on the matter, and ought to look some more about what any of this stuff he grew up with really says. ...And surprise, it turns out there's more there than I ever knew. Huh. Guess what? Perhaps a larger, more open, more accepting world-view and religious view is called for.

That was probably the first step back toward being sensible and reasonable about it.

Note, I was *not* that wacky in high school or earlier, and not even in the first year or two of college. That ultra-rigid (rigid? what?) view came about from being messed up in not accepting I was gay, when it finally dawned on me, yes, I was gay and that wasn't just some phase, around 19 in college. (Oh, there were plenty of clues before that. I just didn't accept them.) If I'd had different experiences at a couple of key points in junior high and high school, I probably would not have gone down that whole unaccepting and uptight (and unhelpful, unproductive) path for so long, if at all.

My younger self would be really surprised at myself today. But as surprised as, say, my high school self would be, I think my younger self would recognize this present-day self more than that too-closeted, too-uptight self from late college and early adulthood.

Some of us take more winding, wandering around paths toward enlightenment, I guess. As long as we figure it out eventually.

Note again, this means I really value friends with other viewpoints. I don't always agree, but you might be surprised with what I do agree with or what it doesn't bother me not to disagree with.

I tend to think every human has an incomplete, not quite correct, or sometimes very off-kilter view of whatever that ultimate truth really is. We're all just human, mortal, imperfect, so how could we get it all right?

It would be nice, however, if we were less intent on hating and excluding and taking away, instead of loving, including, and sharing.

Did I say anything of any lasting value there? Maybe not. Just my own take on things, at least today. :)

Your mileage may vary. Perhaps your mileage is *supposed* to vary.

Two quotes from a show I really like:

(Farscape)

-- "I am a Peacekeeper, it is my duty, my breeding, since birth."

-- "You can be more."

"Unique is always valuable."

-- "You...you saved my life. Why...why wouldja do that?"

-- "Pass it on."

-- "What?"

-- "When someone needs your help, pass it on."

(I think I'm misquoting that last bit.)

and another show:

(Firefly)

"You can't take the sky from me."

-- "Ain't you s'posed to be off bringin' religiosity to the fuzzy-wuzzies, or somethin'?"

-- "Oh, I got heathens a-plenty right here, them as needs the word."

(in Firefly, also look for the scene where River removes all the *labels* from the cans, and the crew have to eat potluck for a while. I need to find the quote again.)

[Paul_and_Paco]

Does that mean they can double-dip? Take the income (including profits) off their tax form, then an additional deduction for a contribution to a charity? Probably not (the IRS is not that dumb), but it makes one wonder.

Yes, they can! And, yes, they are double-dipping... but, all is fair when it comes to the "Lord's work", right?

And, with so many translations of the Bible, it is easy for any whackjob to give credence to their own interpretations. Luckily, I do not have to live by a book. I live by good examples.

[Paul_and_Paco]

Ben,

As always, you have given as good as they. I hope I can look back on my teens and see myself when I am older. Our family has a wide range of religions and religious beliefs, most of which are not religously followed... From Buddhist to agnostic to nothing other than just the golden rule.

[blue]

Thanks. The Golden Rule and good examples probably do more good than much of the other stuff anyway.

I have a feeling when you're older, you'll like what you see from your teen years. Teens have more potential and maturity and have it more together than a lot of people seem to give them credit for.

[Paco]

Anyway, I never heard the "eye of the needle" thing in school or in church. I think I was deprived. If it had been told to us in school in Catechism class it would have given me one more thing to argue about with the priest (the school had all lay teachers, so Catechism was taught twice a week by a priest from the church next to the school). I wasn't very popular with the priests when I was in the fifth grade and had arrived at the age of reason and understanding (9 to 10 years old).

I was once told by a parish priest I should be ashamed for begging. It didn't seem funny at the time, but I saw how he lived and the food that was prepared for him daily... and, then heard him begging for donations in his splendid church.

I have nothing for God-merchants and those holier than thou. My God celebrates life... my God cries when children are hurting, are homeless or go hungry... my God doesn't ask for money.

[DesDownunder]

I forget who said it but,

"If money is being sought, then truth is no where in sight."

[Cole Parker]

Paco, that was beautiful!

C

[dude]

er... Amen!