Zimmerman and justice

[Chris James]

George Zimmerman was found not guilty of murdering Trayvon Martin. He was acquitted by a jury after 16 hours of deliberation and walked out of the courthouse a free man. But it will not end there. Zimmerman is certainly guilty of many things, just not murder.

From the beginning of this entire incident we were subjected to a plethora of information about the shooting, most of it in Zimmerman’s defense. Justice from the shooter’s point of view is made easier when the victim is deceased. We will never really know what happened that night.

Zimmerman’s guilt begins when on patrol in his neighborhood as a community watch member he spots Trayvon Martin walking on the sidewalk. Zimmerman’s mindset is captured in the recording of the phone call he makes to the 9-1-1 operator about this suspicious person.

The words he uses pretty much reveals how Zimmerman is racially profiling a boy he doesn’t know who appears suspicious because of his color. He’s tired of “them” getting away and despite the instructions of the police operator to wait for a patrol car to arrive on the scene Zimmerman decides to go after the boy.

This is where the gun comes into play. Zimmerman is not wearing any item of clothing that identifies him as a member of the community watch, just a plain red jacket which conceals the gun at his waist. Trayvon Martin would have no way of knowing who this man is and for that Zimmerman and the leadership of the community association is responsible.

I live in a condo development and we have a community watch patrol. Two volunteers drive around in a clearly marked patrol car that says Community Observer Patrol on the outside. These volunteers also wear white uniform shirts that identify their authority.

But that authority is limited to calling the police if they observe something suspicious. They have no powers of arrest and certainly are not allowed to be armed. They are not trained police officers, just eyes and ears tasked with protecting the neighborhood.

But Zimmerman has a gun and I think this gives him a false sense of superiority. As we learned during the trial Trayvon Martin defended himself by beating Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk. Again, we will never know what led to that physical altercation, just the results that left a seventeen year old boy with a fatal gunshot wound to the chest.

Zimmerman presents a rather porcine image in police photos after the incident. If he had not been armed then Trayvon Martin probably would have knocked Zimmerman unconscious and this event would have had a different outcome. At least the police would have been presented with two sides of the argument.

So Zimmerman is not guilty of murder, but he is guilty of being a fool by racially profiling an unarmed boy, carrying a gun into a situation where he is not supposed to use it and ignoring the directions of police to wait for officers to arrive on the scene.

No one should ever believe that Zimmerman is the victim in this situation. He has shown himself to lack good judgment in his choice of actions. If his intention was to use the “stand your ground” laws to back up his assault on one of “them” then he failed miserably by provoking the incident, and as I said, we have not heard the last of this.

[Merkin]

The gun, as always, negates any possibility for rational outcomes.

[Cole Parker]

His plea of self defense rings very hollow to me. If you provoke someone, attack him, and he fights back and then he's getting the upper hand in the ensuing scuffle, can you then shoot him and say your life was threatened, and get away with that?

Evidently you can in Florida.

C

[Cy-kun]

First of all, when your neighborhood has been victimized by several people of a certain race, seeing another member of that race in the middle of the night and assuming he's up to no good isn't "racial profiling", it's common sense. Second, regardless of what Zimmerman said or did to "provoke" Tryvon, it still ended with Zimmerman in the ground getting his face beat by a younger, stronger person. He was well within his right to fear for his life and defend himself. Just because you provoke soebody doesn't mean they suddenly have the right to beat you to death. Even if you attack them first. Which from what I've read about the trial I don't believe Zimmerman did. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry his gun and to use it to defend himself. He did. He was charged with what was in my opinion BS charges in a trial that tried to be more about race that the supposed crime that was committed and he got off like he should have. Especially with that god awful case the prosecution had and the fact that the prosecutor falsified Zimmerman's arrest warrant, something she's under indictment for by the way. No matter which side of the story you believe, the case against Zimmerman was a total mess from day one. More about emotion and agendas than facts.

[Cole Parker]

So what you're saying is, if you provoke someone, goad him or confront him or push him or whatever, and he fights back, that gives you license to kill him? That's the long and short of this. A man attacks a boy, the boy fights for his life, gets the upper hand, and the man kills him. And that's perfectly OK?

Bulltootie.

C

[Chris James]

This issue is sensitive and I understand that not all of us here will agree that justice was done but the argument needs to stay civil or I am sure Mike will remove the thread. So keep your gloves on for this discussion...please:

As I mentioned it was probably the gun that gave Zimmerman the false courage to approach Trayvon Martin. As all the NRA types will tell you guns aren't at fault it's the people behind them. Should Trayvon Martin have just run away in this situation? He was certainly capable of beating Zimmerman in a footrace. We don't know why he didn't.

There is no answer since if Zimmerman pointed his gun at the boy and said come here you little N****r we will never know. The man was certainly capable of putting the boy in that position. He did not achieve the moral high ground in this trial. The version we heard in Zimmerman's defense was well practiced and coached by his attorney, that's what they do, that's how our justice system works.

I can disagree with Cy-kun because I think Zimmerman intended to use his gun. I think he is a coward of the worst sort and a perfect poster boy for the kind of stupidity the NRA breeds in this country. This mentality of "shoot first and let God sort them out" is going to cause race riots in this country once again.

For the Wingnuts of the Right, like Ann Coulter, to see Zimmerman as a hero is just absurd. The man is a menace and I certainly wouldn't want him living in my neighborhood. He will soon feel like a man with a target pinned to his back so perhaps he will disappear. I understand Venezuela is taking in idiots this year, perhaps Zimmerman and Snowden should get together.

[Drewbie]

First of all, when your neighborhood has been victimized by several people of a certain race, seeing another member of that race in the middle of the night and assuming he's up to no good isn't "racial profiling", it's common sense. Second, regardless of what Zimmerman said or did to "provoke" Tryvon, it still ended with Zimmerman in the ground getting his face beat by a younger, stronger person. He was well within his right to fear for his life and defend himself. Just because you provoke soebody doesn't mean they suddenly have the right to beat you to death. Even if you attack them first. Which from what I've read about the trial I don't believe Zimmerman did. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry his gun and to use it to defend himself. He did. He was charged with what was in my opinion BS charges in a trial that tried to be more about race that the supposed crime that was committed and he got off like he should have. Especially with that god awful case the prosecution had and the fact that the prosecutor falsified Zimmerman's arrest warrant, something she's under indictment for by the way. No matter which side of the story you believe, the case against Zimmerman was a total mess from day one. More about emotion and agendas than facts.

I understand where your coming form I began to read a bit last night and it's just hard to understand when some do something lesser and they get 20 years, is there more to the story like if the gun was illegal etc?

http://www.cbsnews.c...and-her-ground/

And Sadly near the beginning of this whole fiasco was that it turned into blacks and against whites and just finger pointing, and no dialogue, which unfortunately has happend

And I'd be interested to see what you all think of this guys article,

http://gawker.com/th...ready-770650992

and your right billy no one should wish dead on him.

[Billy]

I could quote the facts, since I watched the trail from beginning to end, but it's clear to me that a lot of people never watched the evidence presented in the trail, wait, I mean the lack of evidence that Zimmerman committed any illegal act. EVERY state in the country has a conceal weapon law, giving citizens the right to carry a conceal weapon. I'm sorry if some of you disagree with that, but I just had a friend who was walking to work as he does every work day that was attacked by three people and seriously hurt. Had he been carrying this may have been prevented. Criminals will ALWAYS be armed. Zimmerman had every right to get out of his car and follow Mr. Martin. Yes, Mr Martin had every right to be there as well. But if you had watched the trail, you would know that when Mr. Martin ran towards his house, which was less than three hundred feet away, there was four minutes between the time he ran and when he confronted Mr. Zimmerman. Mr. Martin then confronted Mr. Zimmerman in a pitch dark area. It's clear to me that if any racial profiling went on, it was the one that said a 'creepy-ass cracker'. And that's what his friend said who has a history on toning down what he said, depending on who she was talking to at the time. By the way, Mr. Zimmerman is not white. That's another lie the media told at the beginning, just before the President jumped into a local criminal matter causing it to become racial.

If this site is a full of leftwing nutz, then clearly I made a mistake joining. I thought the left was an open-minded, tolerant group of people. Personally, I don't see Zimmerman as a hero, but he isn't the monster painted by some pretty bias people.

It's really funny when people ask for a civil conversation and then suggest the death of another human being. SHAME!

[dude]

Dude bites tongue....

[Chris James]

My apologies to the Dude, I thought we could have a civil discussion over what will be a major roadblock in American life for the rest of the summer.

"It's really funny when people ask for a civil conversation and then suggest the death of another human being. SHAME!"

Now there's a pointed comment and way off base. I certainly DO NOT wish for Zimmerman's death, on the contrary, I want him to live and reap what he has sown. Where's the shame in that? But perhaps he will become the darling boy of the right and appear on cable with Pat Robertson or Rush Limbaugh. That ought to make his family proud.

I am just afraid that Zimmerman will be targeted as that racist SOB, not because he is white or half-white, but because his new friends on the right will use him to further their agenda. They have a way of using people and then shunning them, or haven't you noticed?

Let's not forget that we all come from different backgrounds and have different attitudes towards our constitutional freedoms. Some of us understand that better than others and only recently have we come to understand that being gay or speaking about gay matters on a site like this is one of those freedoms.

So let's not replay the Zimmerman trial, he was found not guilty and many of us disagree with that verdict which we have the freedom to do. (Remember O.J. anyone?) I believe that Zimmerman may have won his trial but will begin to understand that he no longer has the life he wants to lead. We can all go out in public once again because I can assure you Zimmerman won't be showing his face out there, with or without his gun. I hope it keeps him good company while he's in hiding.

[Billy]

It is what it is. Everyone can read for themselves what was said, what was implied, etc...

[The Pecman]

Having grown up in Florida, I know that area very well. It's a very depressed, low-rent, bad part of the state.

My impression from the evidence is that Trayvon Martin was not an angel, but he didn't deserve to be pursued by somebody who "assumed" he was up to no good. I don't doubt that Trayvon put up a fight, but the moment Zimmerman disobeyed the police and went after him anyway (armed with a gun), I think the line was crossed.

But I also don't think each was without partial guilt. I'd say 75% of it was Zimmerman's fault, and 25% of it was Martin's fault for probably being obstreperous. Still, Zimmerman should've been found guilty of something, at least some kind of assault. Martin didn't deserve to die for just being a jerk (and unarmed, to boot). And Zimmerman was extraordinarily stupid to go after somebody with a gun at 11 at night, particularly when he himself was not a policeman. Too often, I think these "Neighborhood Watch" guys let a little power go to their heads.

[Billy]

If everything you said was true, then you would be right. However, nothing you just said was proven at the trail. There was ZERO evidence that Zimmerman continued looking for Martin after a 911 operator advised him not to follow Martin. The operator is NOT the police. And even if he did ignore the operator, that's not illegal. There's nothing illegal about assuming anything, especially after all the recent break-ins in that neighborhood by young black males. I do agree that it's tragedy that the boy died. You're also right that some of the "Neighborhood Watch" guys do think they're cops.

I believe that Martin after getting stoned, got mad that the creepy-ass cracker was following him, and started to beat Zimmerman to death. Did Martin stop when a neighbor came out and yell for him to stop? No. Did Zimmerman have the right to defend himself? Yes. No one but those two knows "exactly" what happened. Everyone blames Zimmerman for getting out of his car and following,which he had a right to do, but no one mentions the fact that Martin was less than 300 feet away from his house and once he had ran away could have easily have walked inside his house instead of confronting Zimmerman. Perhaps it's best not to bring your fists to a gun fight. Just like my friend that was put into a hospital from being beaten by three males and robbed him. If he had a gun, perhaps people would be yelling for my friend to be jailed and run off to some other country. In this Zimmerman case, it's best to stick to the facts, not what the media put out there.

[Gee Whillickers]

I wasn't there, and have only limited information about the evidence presented at the trial, so my opinion about what happened that night is uninformed and useless. Since the actions of both of them hinge on those events, I remain silent.

However:

First of all, when your neighborhood has been victimized by several people of a certain race, seeing another member of that race in the middle of the night and assuming he's up to no good isn't "racial profiling", it's common sense.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Racial profiling is, by definition, exactly what that is. He is judging a person he does not know by his race. Now, if he were to react exactly the same way to a stranger of any colour, culture, creed, etc, including those that match his own, then there is no stereotyping. It would appear that is not the case. I may be incorrect on my information however.

[dude]

Er, Billy... do you have anything to contribute to the AwesomeDude Forums other than obviously strongly held political views? You arrived a few days ago and leapt with both feet into the AD Forums with political views .

Have you read any of the excellent stories written by the very folks with whom you are doing verbal battle here? Have you commented on a story or poem you liked or on an author's style in writing?

At AwesomeDude, we are primarily a community of writers and readers of high quality gay fiction. That is mainly what we discuss along with exchanging a variety of personal views on a number of topics of mutual interest.

While we do encourage discussion on current political events here in the News and Views Forum, we do require a degree of civility.

So far in the Zimmerman and justice thread, I've ead the usual wide variety of opinions but nothing to warrant a comment like " If this site is a full of leftwing nutz, then clearly I made a mistake joining. I thought the left was an open-minded, tolerant group of people." (sic)

Hmmm, I wonder when we became 'the left' here? Actually, if you'd followed the forums at all before joining, you would know that the politicl opinions expressed in News and Views run the gamut from 'bleeding heart liberal tree hugger' to 'a couple of clicks to the right of Atilla the Hun.'

One thing we don't do, however, is attack other Forum members.

You are welcome here and to express your views, but please don't denigrate the views of others and please observe -as our House Rules require – the request to 'Play Nice.'

Mike

[Billy]

I'll shut up and mind my own business