DesDownunder
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Thankx writebymyself,
I guess I am just being paranoid or something. :)
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Hi,
Would someone like to give some feedback or thoughts on what to do when you read a story which has a scene in it that is very similar to one that you have just written or are writing.
Three times now, I have written in my new story, different scenes which I had not read before and thought I was being original. Ha ha!
The parallels in the stories of the main characters/situations are as if the other authors and I had held a discussion and gone away to write totally different stories but with a scene or situation that was required to be included in each of our individual stories.
As I say the plots are very different. It is just that the scenes are so similar. I am not talking here about the everyday simple occurrences:
"Boy gets on a train and has hassle with hooligans"
but more like each scene (mine and the other author's) summed up as:
"Boy gets on train and is hassled by a hooligans causing him to exit the train whilst moving and finding himself, covered in blood and laying in a ditch alongside a river surrounded by weeds, where he hears voices of murdered relatives."
Neither of these examples are the actual writings in question here.
They are just made-up examples to try to convey what is causing me grief.
No, in case anyone asks, I have not shown anyone my work and my computer is not available to anyone else.
I am not talking about previous works that I have read surfacing from my subconscious. Though I guess something may have stimulated the other authors and me to write a similar scene, both of us thinking it original.
Obviously our writing styles are somewhat different even though our characters are thinking the same thoughts.
I understand that coincidence happens in creative activities, I just don't know whether or not to ignore them and press on or throw it all out and start again.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
DesD.
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... "something chewed or spit."
OK, that was way more than you wanted to know.
I bet you're gobsmacked!
Fellatio will never be the same!
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Here's an interesting link on the possible derivation of "gobsmacked."
Thanks Paul. Interesting to see the Scottish connection.
Also fascinating to see the derivation with "gab' as in "gift of the gab."
However in 1950's my mum would threaten me with a "smack in the gob" if I didn't keep quiet. So the connection to "gobsmacked" was certainly around then.
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whatdoesitmean?
As blue says gobsmacked is used in Australia too.
I thought it was Australian?
"Gob" is a slang expression for mouth, hence to be gobsmacked is to be smacked in the mouth.
As this is usually an unexpected occurrence in life not to mention, in polite social circles it somewhat surprises the recipient.
By extension the expression has come to be used to describe a state of being surprised or dumbfounded by some circumstance or news.
Another term would be to say that a person was "bowled over" by a situation.
A more recent marvellous exclamation that expresses being "gobsmacked", is often used by the young with emphasis on the "up" is
"Shut UP!"
Which in its more usual context is what I will now do. :roll:
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I love these wanderings in logic.
Back in the early 1960s there was a short documentary that amongst other gems showed that if women's breasts continued to grow at the present rate (for 1960) then by the year 2000, women would have extreme difficulty in standing upright.
I leave the image that accompanied this description for your imagination.
lol :D
Des.
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TR That's great!
You've taken something that frustrates everyone and gave us a laugh about it.
You are one gifted bunny! :albino:
I agree. A masterpiece!
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Camy, what a delightful poem.
You made me laugh and still feel some compassion for both the characters.
I really loved the way the poem jumps to the plane verse.
So unexpected, but then so was the comment about the cats.
(still chuckling)
Des.
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... hit on everything with a pulse. :roll:
I think the pulse is optional. :p
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Dude,
Thank You for the explanation of what caused the closure of the forums.
I am sure that any reasonable person will understand and sympathise with your frustration and the difficulties you described.
I am just so pleased the forums have returned and look forward to being able to contribute to our little community of readers and authors.
In fact I am so happy about their return, I feel quite gay. :D
Cheers
Des.
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Just received the email about forums to close.
Was it something I said?
Seriously, these forums are a breath of fresh air.
I guess that recent problems with a certain participant have precipitated this action. I do not know or even want to know what has transpired behind the scenes, I just want to say that I do hope that some way can be found to keep the forums going.
AwesomeDude won't be the same without them.
These forums are quite unique.
Dude, I will help if at all possible. :(
Des.
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Just read chapter 21 of SOOTB and was able to retain my composure, until I read,
"If I could take the burden of all of those people's grief and carry it on my shoulders for just a few minutes, then that was my responsibility, my obligation to Mikey, and my tribute to him."
...and then I lost it and wept.
It wasn't the funeral itself or even the character's reactions, it was the daring in the author's expressing the humanity and insight of caring for others by Connor, that got to me. Well done.
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Dear blue,
I sympathise with your situation. We all react differently to these moments.
My mother was very upset when she thought I might be having a relationship with another man. However in the sixties you never admitted anything. (Homosexuality was still illegal then.)
She knew but didn't talk about it. She just wanted me to be happy, she said.
I remember many years ago, my grandmother was living with my partner and me as she was convalescing from a broken hip.
We thought she was bed ridden, but early one morning the bedroom door swung open and she stood there leaning against the door frame looking at us cuddling in bed.
"Aha!" she said, "That's what I thought."
She turned and went back to her bedroom.
My partner asked me what we should do?
I was lucky enough to have a moment of insight and told him, "Nothing. If we respond to her, we have to have an argument. If we do nothing then nothing will happen."
We looked after her till she died many years later in her own home.
(We lived in our own place.)
She never mentioned it again except for a brief reference once, to how she did not approve of my having a boyfriend, but that he was a kind man, obviously good for me, and she did not want to know (any more). She added that she would have liked grandchildren. I told her it didn't seem likely.
To my surprise she burst out laughing, saying, "That seems obvious."
I know that my experience is not really what you are facing and it is from a very different era, but please be careful. Sometimes it is not necessary to or even needed to be out to everyone.
My partner still plays it quiet. Me? I am out there like you wouldn't believe, like only you can when all the close family have gone.
"Hi I am Des and you should know that I am the man my mother warned me about.", has been my statement to all my trainees and new co-workers at work.
My workmates all hide around the corner to watch the reactions.
I know what it is like to be ostracized. I was invited once and only once to a primary school re-union when I was 45. Now primary school was hell on Earth for me. My red hair and pale skin was enough to ensure that I was bashed every day at school and even the teachers berated me. I was called a sissy and poofter all the time. (How did I ever survive?) I was seven - twelve years old.
Well, at the re-union one of the now obese bullies came over to me like I was long lost friend and slapped me on the back. I momentarily thought the re-union was just an excuse to bash me again.
"How are you?" he inquired, "Did you bring your wife and kids?"
I was furious. "No", I told him, "You all told me I was a fag so often at school that I thought I must be so I would like you to meet my husband."
He ran from me and I never got invited to a re-union again. I wonder why?
Oh dear I have got carried away, haven't I?
What I am trying to say, blue, is that sometimes it is right to come out and other times it is best say nothing.
Only you can know which is best and when.
From your post You seem to understand your sitution very well.
When I have put pen to paper to let off steam, I have often found that was all I needed to make me stronger and realise my detractors are not worth it. Other times, of course it is worthwhile to stand up for what we believe in.
Your intended letter sounds well thought out.
These are very different times, and I am sure we will all be thinking of you. I certainly will.
Best Wishes,
Des.
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desdownunder wrote > Perhaps you could have a competition for registered user activity.
First prize could be a night with Dude. <
Sounds like Dude would be the winner in that contest.
Codey
Not if he gets me Codey. lol :p
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Thanks Dude for your informative, "rambling" but reassuring reply.
I am particularly relieved to know the overall number of visitors is so high.
I guess I too, lurked a couple of times before I decicded to join in the forums. (I always was however a bit of a lurker.
)I understand the trepidation of making oneself known, but in any case it seems that AwesomeDude offers really good anonymity for those in need of that reassurance.
Of course being a "would be" story-writer I was pleased to receive some helpful thoughts from the forums, and All I had to do was read them.
Joining in a couple of times was great fun and very instructive.
The forums are also a great place to let author's know about your reactions to their stories. There is no doubt about AwesomeDude having some of the best stories on the net.
Well back to my poetry writing, the story will have to wait. :D
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That?s about it. I am going to have to make some hard decisions about AwesomeDude.com in the next week or so.
Awww Dude that is not good.
I really enjoy this site and wish I could help but I too am working and dealing with the fascist boss from hell.
I'm also trying to write a story and have little enough time for that.
I hope to submit it one day for inclusion at AD.
The forums are really great and I think they deserve better participation from net users. I find it difficult to understand how a site of this quality only attracts around 240 registered members. Surely there must be more than 240 gay people on the net.
Perhaps you could have a competition for registered user activity.
First prize could be a night with Dude. :D
Hope it works out
Des
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It's observations on being a singer, dancer, and entertainer. Nothing vast and mysterious, it says what it means. I was having fun with it.
Um, no, I had no intention of "son" in that sense, nor Uncle Tom or blackface (?!). Guys, ugh, that's not the kind of guy I am. I honestly don't get how you came to that conclusion.
:(
I read it as a simple observation of an entertainer and thought it was indeed quite "fun".
As for son being a term of condescension, in my experience it is not restricted to race issues as older white folk address young white males with it all the time usually to assert a postion of dominance. I sufferred it all the time when I was growing up. "Dont call me "son", was almost always a phrase of the day for me.
Blue's rather innocent use of it in the poem only caused me an ire factor of 4 on a scale 10. :)
The movie by the way has been removed from Youtube.
I like dude's idea of it being an attempt to"swing loose".
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Hah, and that gets into the point that a reader or critic shouldn't read too much into the symbols in the story.
Thanks blue and I would probably add that the author shouldn't expect too much from the use of symbols, but I like seeing them as long as they are motivated by, or relevant to, the plot/character situation.
Paul and vwl
-thanks guys you have been very helpful with your thoughts and suggestions.
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Yes Blue I agree.
I checked with an elderly English school teacher (here in South Australia) and she was emphatic that "used" was perfectly acceptable and was common usage for many years.
As for the could've etc., a thousand thank yous for spelling it out for us. I get very agitated whenever I read *could of*.
It is interesting that your local ss sound becomes zz as my name has always been pronounced Dez, but I do not know anyone who says yez instead of yes.
Lousy locally means that you are infected with lice, whereas louzy means you a nasty, miserly SOB with an added conotation of deprivation.
Is it any wonder that computers can't understand us even when we yell at them?
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Thanks ArchangelMatthew72.
Tempest of course was a red herring as it is, as you rightly point out a thing in and of itself.
I am sure too that your analysis of Gone With The Wind being in use as a phrase before the book is correct. I like the idea that authors might see it is advertising. (Margaret Mitchel was certainly alluding to the disappearing nature of the old South at the time of the American civil War with her title, but there is more depth to the title hidden within the novel. Fleeting is indeed a good word here.)
I don't however agree that such usage is necessarily the author parading his ego as to how well he is read or how great he regards the book.
Particularly so, when it is only the title that is used.
Cetainly I agree with you where an author refers to a real world book title or song as something that a character should read or that a character "really loves" does become a little boring if not condescending to the reader.
Parody as I intended here, can be for "fun" or can be a tool for insight or satire.
I could just as easily have chosen to write:
...the essence of our lovemaking would soon be blowin' in the wind.
Had I chosen this however, the references to North and South would not be valid in connection to the (civil) unrest of the storm in the first sentence. Perhaps I should have been a little more descriptive and added that the two men were soldiers. :D
However I take your post as a sign to be moderate in such usages.
I am not certain about actually putting these things in italics or quotation marks where they form part of the sentence in a fictional story.
In a reference or academic work I would consider it mandatory to use quotes.
I think it is more fun for the reader to discover the connection or wonder if there is one in a novel. I'm sure you know that Shakespeare has many such references hidden in his own works to other stories as well as places that were well known in his own time. But I guess he is Shakespeare.
I am very grateful for your reply and feel somewhat more confident in approaching my writing.
Thanks again. :D
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It bears repeating.
It does indeed, thanks heaps it is a very helpful site.
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All clear now, mate?
Yes I think so.
Firstly thanks to Graeme, blue, vwl and ArchangelMatthew72 for your speedy and helpful replies. I will cetainly look at the site, vwl.
I was really just astounded at the coincidence of having written a section of my story and only then finding a similar segment in a recently posted story (on Nifty). This led me to consider deleting my segment, but decided against such action on the grounds that I had a lot more detail and plot motivation tied up in my descriptions and that the worse that anyone might think is that I had reworked the published idea with more detail. Is this wrongful thinking?
There is another nagging thought however, of having been beaten to the punch with the segment's storyline idea, but such is life.
For a non-existing example I thought you might like to consider the following for discussion. This is specially written for this forum to see what you think about working *obviously* derived material into a work for the "fun" of it.
There was little civility in the approaching storm.
The Northerly gusts froze us as we cuddled. Our windswept
bodies were stiff with passion. I held him tight as he held me,
longing for the release of our own inner tempests.
Each of us seeking that release, at the hand of the other.
Our faces were flush as much from momentary joy as they were from
the biting weather.
I could feel his excitement building in ever expanding surges
matching ny own. Finally he turned to face the South and I knew
that the essence of our lovemaking would soon be gone with the wind.
Ok so it's corny. It is only an example but is the use of a well known title in this way considered plagiarism or worse yet an infringement of copyright?
What are your thoughts? (yeah, yeah bad taste, but it was a spur of the moment thing). :oops:
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DesDownUnder, I'll comment on your question when I get back tonight. :)
I wait with anticipation. Oh dear I am sure I read that phrase somewhere
Des
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Does anyone have any guidelines on the difference between plagarism and inspiration?
I too wonder about where plagarism ends and originality begins.
Several times I have been adding a new scene to my as yet unfinished story, (don't you just love how working interrupts creativity?),
only to discover that another author has also used the same idea in a scene in his story.
I am not talking about sex scenes as such here - they tend to be somewhat similar by nature and anyway I guess you could say sex is in the public domain. (or should be :roll: )
As an example let's say I write a scene in which a character looks in the mirror and describes himself with some terror at what he sees.
The purpose here is to not only promote the plot but to also convey to the reader the physical attributes of the character without resorting to the usual "let me tell you about my appearance and stats." routine.
Then quite by accident I read an article about how clumsy this mirror technique is in describing characters.
Is this now plagarism.
and/or
Have I found a way to make the clumsy technique new, interesting and valid for my purposes?
Another brief example;
I write a scene about (say) lust in a train, then afterwards read a story which has that idea as one of its story elements.
Who will believe that I didn't steal the idea from the other story?
This is not a new dilemma. Tchaikovsky and Verdi both wrote a very similar tune for their respective operas within weeks of each other.
It seems to me that "great minds think alike" to put it politely.
Maybe however, mediocrity abounds. I hope not.
Also there is the unconscious element of thinking something is new when it is really just a resurfacing memory that presents itself as original thought.
Then there is the question of cliches. Are cliches plagarism?
Personally I think cliches can be a valid means to satirical revelation, but others may only see the cliche.
No easy answers. (tears hair out and looks forlornly at his script which he is sure he wrote and did not copy).
)
Scan to donate
Writer's Quandary on Coincidence
in Writers' Workshop
Posted
Thank you Graeme. I don't remember reading about the Melbourne boy and tossed the scenario off in a few seconds for this example.
I am astounded a similar real life situation actually happened!
On the other hand I have always believed that if someone thinks of something, somebody else has already done it.
I was feeling a little fragile about my story having no less than three sequences I read after writing them, in other stories, but I have decided to keep going and see where I end up with it.
Thanks again
DesD.