Richard Norway
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Posts posted by Richard Norway
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New writer here, but I didn't stop at Chapter 1. Well, I've got that done, but I also have 4 other chapters (who knows what the number will be) completed. When a part of the story becomes clear to me, I write it. These are the major parts of the story, and the transitions still need to be worked out. Who knows where the chapters written so far will turn up.
But enough of that. I've got to go clean my garage.
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To Norway: I write because I have things to say. I don't often say them in a blunt and obvious way. My messages tend to sneak up on you. Some people never get them. That's cool too.
To the Orangutan: You said: that the story does have a resolution, not of sorts, but definitive, held in balance by the question in the detail. See? Someone gets it.
Q.E.D.
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This idea of story closure has been taken up before in other threads, and there has always been a myriad of opinions from the writers here. All that does is show that we have a myriad of writers...period.
But, you all need to ask yourself one simple question. Who are you writing for? Many write to satisfy a need within themselves to show how erudite they are. Many write to satisfy a curiosity about a given topic. Many write to make a point, and many write to just tell a story. And many write to satisfy a need within the reader.
I understand Pecman's views, as he's connected with Hollywood where closure is necessary. I also understand Cole's views where the denouement is not as important as the internals of the writing.
You're both right...and you're both wrong...because storytelling is not about you, it's about the reader. Isn't that the entire reason that we're here? Some people will revel in the intricacies of HOW a story is written, and others will only be satisfied with that fizzy slippers feeling at the end.
But...in the end, it's about the reader. What we're here for is to make sure that he/she is satisfied, frustrated, entertained or enlightened. It's NOT about us.
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That's a lotta candles, ya flamer!
Wait a minute. Somethings wrong here. I counted only 12 candles!
I think we have a lier in our midst, or someone who's very hopeful.
Happy Birthday though. To make up for the lack of candles this year, you can put 165 candles on next years cake.
Hey! No fair using that paddle!
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By any chance, has anyone ever seen or better yet can copy and paste to this thread, a table of voices and their strengths and weaknesses so that authors might view this?
You know, Rubi, I've never actually seen a table like that. I'm sure there must be one, and it wouldn't be too difficult to develop one. I'm going from memory from the few writing classes that I've taken and some of the books on writing that I've read.
But as you can see from this thread, many people have as many different opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of any one POV. It will eventually come down to whatever you're comfortable with and which one in YOUR mind is appropriate to tell your story.
But there are a few universally accepted thoughts about the strengths and weaknesses of each POV.
Alright. Here's a challenge for all of us. Why don't we write a short description of what we feel about the various forms of POV, what each one is and used for, the strengths and short comings, etc., etc. and then post them. We could then leave this in one of the other forums for others to use as a reference. It would help those of us learning (like definitely me).
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Again, the wise wizard, Pecman, is correct. There has been great writing in the 1st person POV, and where appropriate or needed, I think it's a great way to write.
Maybe I came across as being a little bit over opinionated. I was mouthing an objection to the over use of 1st person as a gimmick, not to put it down as a legitimate way to tell story. The gimmick I'm referring to is the lack of creativity in telling a story. It's too easy to fall into the trap of having the protagonist just narrate in his mind what the story is. Dialog and description need to be used too.
To Kill A Mockingbird is still one of my favorite books, and I've read it at least 6 times since high school.
I've started my second novel, intending it to be told from the POV of my protagonist, hence I was writing in the 1st person. But before I had reached page 12, the story began to complete itself in my head, and I found that my antagonist needed his voice. I went to 3rd person because it became appropriate.
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I also have to agree with Peckman, but he comes to us with a film background. Well, so do I, but not from a working background, but from a screenwriting background. Only as a non-professional, that is...just writing to see if I'd win a contest. Never happened. He's told me that my flash fiction seemed more like a scene from a movie, and I guess it was.
Anyway, I like third person as a POV in fiction. It gives me a lot of freedom. I really don't like the first person, at least the way it's used today. Writers seem to get too much into a persons head and use that to explain to the reader what's going on or what he wants to say. I prefer to give a reader some respect and allude to something and let him/her figure it out. Isn't that the way life really works? I think it makes for more motivation for the reader to go on...or hate me!
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I'm feeding on them, learning, so if you wake up in the middle of the night with a Brandon attached to your head, don't be alarmed. =D
Brandon, I get the image that you're new to this game too, writing. Well, you are NOT alone. Well, I too am new to this game. And like you, I feel the insecurity, the feeling that I'm not good enough. I read authors like Cole Parker here and keep wondering if I'll ever be as good.
Well, I will, someday. And you will too! Hell, you're much better at painting a picture than I am, but I'm better at dialog, So there!
You're good man, you really are. I love falling into the pictures that you paint with words.
Yeah, Brandon will interrupt my dreams, and that's a good thing.
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Brandon, the way you paint landscape with your words is just amazing. In a way, there's not much left to the imagination as you weave your intricacies into the picture, but then again, the mind seems to free itself, allowing for greater escape.
Thank you for that picture.
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I would so love to see this, but why can't productions like this come to New Mexico. We do have a few people here, you know?
The music is great, and it's got a really interesting story line...a love potion that turns a town gay. Hmmm...interesting.
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You need to be much more sucinct in your delivery. You know...hook 'em quickly. Just try this...
"Here's a hundred dollars. Now stand over there."
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Does this brand me as irredeemably drippy? I don't read gay fiction because it mirrors real life, I read it because it allows me to imagine what life COULD be, or at my age what it MIGHT HAVE been. So generally I love happy endings. If it's a good story I don't mind the odd sad ending but mostly I like them happy.
The clue is in the title: it's fiction, if it was reality I wouldn't have to read it, I'm living it. I like my fiction to be different from reality, and to provide me enjoyment and boost my happiness quotient. Okay I hold my hands up and confess: I like escapism. So shoot me.
Bruin, very happy that there is so much excellently written escapism here at AD for me to enjoy.
<- Happy Bruin with a bunch of AD matesI couldn't agree with Bruin more. People read for basically two reasons. One, to learn something, and two, to be entertained, to escape their own lives for a moment and live vicariously. I for one want to believe that there is hope, that I can be better, that there are people out there that do not live by the standards of those we read about in the tabloids or watch on the evening news.
So, like Bruin, you can shoot me too.
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Effectively immediately, Doug, Chris, Steve, and I will boycott McDonald's.
Colin
That's good Colin, on two fronts. The first is obvious, but the second is that McDonald's is not good for your figure anyway.
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Yes, spam bots. I get it now.
Does the recipe also call for just a smidgen of chocolate?
C
I opened the first one and skipped the second one.
I think we have a problem
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Pics or it didn't happen.
Wibby has a wild imagination.
Oh, this is going to be good. Let's see he gets out of this one!
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I can say from personal experience that Driver always welcomed discussion about his work. Like all of us who write, he needed some affirmation that the effort was worth it, especially given what he had to personally go through over the years as a result of having written these stories.
He did, however, eschew the need to dissect each story and especially to glean into his personal life which he has always held sacrosanct.
Look, I don't know Driver personally, like many of you do, but I see him in his writing. This man has a passion that I can only hope to emulate. Yes, I feel that he's hurting...or has in his past. I just finished reading The Quarry. It was boring, BUT it told me a lot about myself and who the author is. I listened to what he had to say, and it floored me. It changed me. It wasn't literature, but it was honesty...it was Driver. It was something that we all, the world, needs to read, but more so...understand.
Driver, whoever he is, is his characters...he changed me!
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If characters couldn't change, how many of the stories we've love to read wouldn't have been written? It's the character's growth as a resonse to his situation that is the focal point of so many stories. Not thrillers and action adventures, but more serious literature. People can and do change, and therein lie their personal stories.
C
I have to disagree Cole. Well, clarify some of the words. I don't believe that people 'fundamentally' change. Fundamentally is the key word here. However, people do learn and grow. A youth is in the process of formation of who he/she is. That's learning and growing. An addict will always be and addictive person, He/she may just decide to not shoot up, but the underlying person is still there. An alcholic will always be an alcholic, but may decide to not drink. People who are taught to hate will always hate. What stops them is not some epiphiny, but the laws that are emposed on them to not allow the outward signs of that underlying hstred. Children mostly learn who they will 'fundamentally' be from their parents. As they grow older and interact with more people, they continue to learn, but it is more of fine tuining or frosting on what they are already.
I do believe that fundamental chang in our society is generational. In other words, bigotry and hatred will only die out as the biggots and haters die. Their actions are stopped by the laws forbidding their actions, and that's what their kids see. So the next generation sees and become more accepting. That's the way they were brought up.
I'm the same person I was when I was 5 years old, but I can't go running naked in the woods like i used to do. For one, I'm too old to run like I used to be able to do, and two, the woods are now a Walmart parking lot. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to.
This doesn't relate to Kieran. He's sick, and we don't have much of a clue as to who he really is. Much of what we do see is the result of his growing and learning enviroment.
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It is quite different from his other works which tend to be coming of age tales.
I can see how it would not sit comfortably side by side with Falling off a Log or some of his other stories.
I don't understand that. He's always asked for comments at the end of each chapter.
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Camy must have opened Google and now he's getting all kinds of sexual proposals...from girls!
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I'd like to reccommend a well written story by Driver around 2002. The title is Sudden Storm. It's going to be emotional. Have a read, and then let us know what you think.
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WBMS, this is a very strange story...I'll respond some more after you post your commentary.
Colin
I must agree with Colin. This is strange coming from you, but don't get me wrong, it's a good strange. The concept is intreguing which keeps me reading. Wishfull thinking had me gripped into wanting...NO! I can't spoil it yet. Tell me when though.
I have thoughts about Kiernan and how he doesn't...not yet thought, don't want to get too deep.
The ending hit home to me. I got what you were trying to say about people not changing, because I believe that real change is generational.
I think everyone should read this. It'll make them think, and that what's you're all about, isn't it?...making people think.
In my humble opinion.
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You know Wibby, we've always thought that there was some kind of sexual connection betweem you and a raccoon. Well, I guess we know now. But don't be upset. We're inclusive here. Raccons are cool. I love the black and white faces. And sexy? You got me there. Yeah, they are. Reminds me of old B&W movies of Paul Newman & Spencer Tracy...even Bogart.
I'll post a pic when I find one approtraite.
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Won't fly in Michigan, our empties are worth a dime each. But that balances out the extra dime we pay for each can/bottle.
The bartender is still approaching me. What do I do now, confused as hell, because I know what Luggie just told me? Do I order that expensive Michigan beer or do I play dumb and politiaclly correct or just abstain? God I want that beer! But the tax man is standing right behind the approaching bartender. Okay, I know it's truth time. I must do what I feel is the most resposible thing that I can do. I'm old enough to not be giving into childness. As a young male (given to the trappings of being in SE michigan, knowing that I must elevate myself beyond the deer antlers on the mantle), I do what is right.
I'll have a Bud light, I tell the bartender.
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Well said, James, that was my thought exactly. America certainly has developed its own crowd of defective and/or wacked out people, as recent history can certainly bear witness.
I personally suspect this is the end result of the attitude amongst some parents that the state is responsible for raising their offspring, and that they, themselves, have no responsibility for setting rules/limits, and for modeling proper behavior. Of course, it could also be the result of the parents being defective themselves, for whatever reason: drugs, abusive backgrounds, etc. Having said that, we've all seen cases where even the most loving and supportive of families can produce sociopaths.
It is a sad commentary on the world we live in that we produce such people in the numbers we do.
Rick
You're absolutely right Rick. We, like every other country on this planet, produce our wackos. But, it's deceiving to focus on those alone. Take a look at the non-profit world to see the millions of people helping people. It's comforting to finally realize that our world revolves around our volunteers, caregivers and...people who care about others. And we can't just forget those who are the wackos either. They still need our help.
<- Happy Bruin with a bunch of AD mates
Scan to donate
(Wibby's) Tortured Soul
in Readers Rule!
Posted
Colin, I'm not good enough or accomplished enough to be giving you advice, but I've learned one thing from all the people here, some I agree with and some I just don't. Your writing is you! Period. There are many rules that are bantered back and forth about how to write, and I'm sure that those classes taught you all of them. But it, in my case I guess, comes down to passion. I'm still telling myself this all the time...to just write!
You're good, and I want to see more of it. Forget the classes. Just keep writing. Your heart comes through then, and that's what makes story.