a gut reaction to a Theologian's dangerous dissection of a simple world

[Guest Rustic Monk]

a gut reaction to a Theologian's dangerous dissection of a simple world

i am me

because i made me

the world around me

is an extension of myself

because i made me

i can destroy me

i change me

and no one else

There's a story behind this. I was hanging out with my friends at one of their studios and listening to Allan Watts. One of them, my friends, reacted strongly to what he was saying about The World as a Wave. Heh. I was going to give this some one name title. But, I dunno, you can't really explain it without a long title.

[EleCivil]

Whoa, this is weird. I was reading "Tao: The Watercourse Way" by Allan Watts today. Just ten minutes ago, in fact. And then I came on and saw this.

One of the main points in the section I just finished was about "mutual arising" - "I exist because the universe exists, the universe exists because I exist."

i change me

and no one else

But if...

the world around me

is an extension of myself

...then wouldn't that imply that by changing yourself, you change the world around you, rather than "no one else"? And if changing yourself, and, in turn, the world around you, doesn't it follow that the changes of those around you would trigger some change in you, even if only in their own perceptions of you?

Or maybe that's the point - that you, being secure in self-identification, are strong enough to maintain your own self-perception despite the forces of outside views acting on you - impressive, considering how many people tend to act differently depending on how they believe the people they're with are seeing them.

Yeah...you just got two paragraphs of reaction out of me with eight lines. I think that means I liked it.

[Guest Rustic Monk]

yeah, you're exactly right. i was going to call this ignorance. but someone said it sounded like an affirmation. so i named it existential affirmation. but my friend was wrong in his thinking, (not the one who said it was an affirmation) in the context of the larger, theosophical position of us in the universe. from a very self-centered view point, my friend said what i've loosely parahrased after his entire world, which must have been largely based upon his struggle with religion and "MYTH", in the most powerful sense of the word. watts told him what he believed in was not reality. that it was the reality the people before him have created and the universe is doing us like an ocean does a wave. he made us turn it off.

[DesDownunder]

I am most pleased to see the references to Alan Watts.

I discovered Alan Watts when I was 22. His wonderful writings inspired me to read on matters related to your poem, Rustic Monk. I've read all his books, but the first one I read had quite an affect on me, "The Wisdom of Insecurity," an outstanding essay on our relationship to the the pain and love of accepting reality, whatever it may be.

Rustic Monk, your verse reminded me of a line that comes from that era of my insatiable reading on such matters,

"I, and the Universe are one." om. (said he in the lotus position, Yep, I can still do that. hehe)

Sorry I can't remember where it came from. We hippies ran around the 1960s sprouting such phrases at all and sundry.

We also believed them. sigh. Peace man! Damn, where is the peace symbol emoticon?

I am also reminded of a moving song, a personal anthem of his, from the 60s sung I think by Anthony Newley called,

"I'm all I Need," which looks egotistical but isn't.

I suppose it might be a little upsetting for some, but the quote from The Old Testament also comes to mind,

"I am that I am."

No I'm not getting religious on you, I'm an atheist remember? (Can one be a mystic atheist?")

So I find difficulty with the last line in your poem, for me,

I change me,

It all changes.

Would be my take on it.

But that's just me and it is wonderful to see your poem on the subject.

Thanks Rustic Monk.

[Guest Rustic Monk]

Yeah, Watts is amazing.

I wanted to express the need to hide oneself from their vulnerabilities from outside forces. The ending could mean a lot of things. But the one that pops out to me, now having finished the poem, is that the world is how he sees it. It is made from who he is.

I didn't answer EleCivil's question, i don't think this means other people can change the narrator at all. I think you were right about the outside forces. But another interpretation is no one else has writing privelages. He changes his world. Perhaps by manifesting his will. Maybe that's why he got pissed off about the God Myth. That he made the world. And you are just a cameo in the saga that he stars in called his life with as much influence as a pebble in the river that is him, you know.

I change me

It all changes

I think, in the terms of this poem, it would be i am the world, because the universe is beyond his control. Like the Litany Against Change or Influence or something, you know? From the Tao of . . . I don't know. Eh. :: shrugs ::

That's Zen Master Wu Kwang you quoted. But I also heard about this "drug-promoting" hipster who was on the telly during the 60's. Maybe you meant him insted. o_o I'm no hippie.

[DesDownunder]

Thanks for the insight to your ideas Rustic Monk.

I would like to explain that hippies were did divided into two distinct groups; the early and most influential flower power "Children of the stars" seekers of Love, Peace and the meaning of life; and the later drug taking hippies who sought to give life a meaning via their exploring of mind altering substances. The historical reasons for the rise and division is due to a number of factors that are often blurred by the 'Establishment'. Explaining that is a discourse unto itself.

I was one of the earlier types. ( I was and still am allergic to those mind altering substances.)

Alan Watts did record in one of his books his reaction to some of the mind altering drugs he took as part of an official study with an University; as seemingly similar to the Zen experience of Satori, but without the feeling of having earned the right to that experience that meditation bestows upon one.

Edited to add the Watts reference.