Sexual Content: When Does Explicit Become Too Much - More

[Guest Dabeagle]

I'm replying, once more, to Pecman's arguments on my board. I don't know why I am doing it, every answer I have provided to him isn't good enough.

There are thinsg I originally wanted to show as a website, cheif among them good stories. I do read stories with graphic content, and hosted a few. My problems were with the youth that visited the site. Do I have any responsibility to them for stories that show two folks that go after almost anything that moves? Or whose relationship is based solely on sex? Do I want to show that?

I wanted to present more positive stories, things that weren't about the stereotypes of gays bed hopping and so forth. Is it real? Sure it is. DO I approve? No. Is that their right? Yep. I think we've all hooked up a time or two, hopefully we find someone that makes us want to leave that life behind.

That's my kind of story, and i think it's a good story. I wrote the authors when I made that decision, and not one complained.

I also told Pecman that the warning on the main page was old verbage and hadn't yet been changed. This was conveniently ignored. I also replied to him, though his fiorst email never reached me. I noted it was stated I never replied.

I wanted stories that didn't revolve around sex, I wanted stories that were about loving relationships, not consistent graphis sex scenes. I have a submissions page that oulines the sites general rules.

You want to know why I didn't say ok, you can say this and not that? CONTEXT. I don't allow rape. But if the fact that it occurs is integral to teh story, if the description of the incident afterward furthers the story, then it belongs. But if the story were rapes, unpunished, unrepentant rapes, then no it doesn't go.

I don't allow alot of things, plainly listed on the guidelines page that is clearly labelled at the top of my website. I don't allow urination, scat and sex with small household appliances. Is that too censorship? Frankly at this point, I'm afraid to accept material. Shoudl I post anymore? Maybe if my characters don't screw each other silly indetail, i'll be accused of censorship again.

Those are and were my reasons. If they are still unclear, especially after all teh rotten things that were said on my board and then carried here when I said no more and deleted it, then too bad. It's the best way I can say it, I don't have the words to make you understand any better.

Dabeagle

[Guest]

Hi Ya DaBeagle! and of course Hello All!

Even though this particular thread has been fairly well hashed out over in the Writer's Forum, I thought that maybe I would add a couple of comments here too. One of the things about the stories is that they truly are the author's babies. They "nurse" them along as they write, (No Pun Intended Nick) and after awhile the stories kinda resemble children in a metaphoric sense if you please.

The raging debate recently has been about the inclusion of the sexual contents; How Much? Too Little? Too Graphic? et cetera. For the writer's that are making every effort to maintain a feel of real life in the portrayal of their characters, oft times they treat the sex as an inherent part of the theme and plot. Now then, the other flip of that coin is the webmasters who allow the writers to post. Here I can safely comment as I am good friends with three of the better known sites as well as my good friend and mentor and I are currently constructing a site.

So let me take a walk thru our thoughts as we assemble the site. We have an extremely narrow scope in mind for the site. Stories that pertain to handicapped & physically challenged Gay teens and Young Adults. (Blind, Mute, Deaf, Wheelchair bound etc.) I have reviewed probably 15 or more stories that fit the genre, but eliminated all but four that I felt could be hosted & posted. The measuring stick was whether or not the stories realistically in a fictional way got close to mirroring the real world without the sex being the primary plot device and obnoxious at best.

It is NOT that I will not include sex, after all, this is one of many reasons that the readers enjoy the stories. But, I do not want to have the site turn into a "stroker" archive, period. Now possibly that is what DaBeagle had in mind but obviously there was a communications lapse which is too bad as I admire both Pec for his writing and DaBeagle for excellent taste.( I do not know about the rest of you, but I LOVE the story; "The William Carter," on DaBeagle's site.)

I also hope to strike a happy medium with the writers, the stories, and the readers. So that was my rather long winded couple of comments.

Paul :mrgreen:

[blue]

Hi, Dabeagle and Paul,

Slightly off-topic to your points, but both your replies really should be moved to the thread in the Writer's Workshop to which your replies refer. -- I'll alert Dude to that; he's the one who has to do it or not as he sees fit.

Dabeagle, I think most of the replies there pretty well hash out the issue. I can understand why you feel a little upset that it was discussed here. May I say, though, that I didn't know whose site was under discussion, until you mentioned it?

[The Pecman]

I'm replying, once more, to Pecman's arguments on my board. I don't know why I am doing it, every answer I have provided to him isn't good enough.

You never answered any of my three questions. I asked very politely and rationally; everything I asked was very well-thought out, clear, and specific, but you side-stepped any direct answers.

Your so-called guidelines say nothing about how you'll now only allow "PG-rated" content, nor does it explain what that is. The only thing you say about content is this:

"No intergenerational sex, i.e. a person of legal age seducing or having relations with someone NOT of legal age. (if you are unsure if this applies to your story, email us with some specifics and we can let you know)

"No gratuitous acts of violence e.g., rape or coercion of minors, abusive situations involving minors, graphic violence, unwilling participants, dangerous sexual acts, depiction of minors being photographed without consequences (Again if this is needed as an event to develop plot it can be allowed. If not sure, ask.)"

And that's all you say about it. I can ask my three questions again, but I suspect you'll still ignore them. (Why do I suddenly feel like Michael Moore hounding George W. Bush?)

I don't allow urination, scat and sex with small household appliances. Is that too censorship?

I don't find things like that interesting to read or write about either. But you don't say this on your website. Why not just say what you think?

You want to know why I didn't say ok, you can say this and not that? CONTEXT. I don't allow rape. But if the fact that it occurs is integral to the story, if the description of the incident afterward furthers the story, then it belongs. But if the story were rapes, unpunished, unrepentant rapes, then no it doesn't go.

Well, my novel Groovy Kind of Love had a rape scene in it. I offered it to you sometime back, and you rejected it purely on that basis. I have absolutely no problem with that and bear you no malice for it. But your opinion now seems to negate that.

In my novel, the rape isn't completed; it's dramatically justfied (at least, it is in my opinion); the scene certainly wasn't done in a way to glorify what happened; it's done as an act of violence, not sex at all; and the guilty party was punished. Could I have left the scene out? Maybe, but I had already set up the villain in previous chapters, and he was too interesting a character to ignore without an eventual payoff. I felt it was dramatically necessary, and I even went into some detail about the rape victim's recovery (mental and physical) for the next few chapters.

I find it interesting that the original Gay Writers Guild (now essentially defunct) asked me to let them post the story. After receiving it, they told me they were a little put-off by the rape scene, and I told them, "no problem -- you don't have to post it," and I apologized for not reading their rules. You know what they did? They had a meeting and decided, "your story is good enough that we're going to change the rules to allow it anyway." And they modified their rules (which are very specific, by the way) to now say, "no rape scenes that are gratuitous or glorify the act." But the story is very definitely R-rated, and knocking it down to a PG would water it down unbearably.

Your comments leave me puzzled, Beagle. Note that I was up-front enough to tell you in the first place that we were having this discussion here on Awesomedude.com, and I sent you my text in advance, just so you knew what was going on. I don't do anything behind people's backs, and I wanted to give you every opportunity to respond. Note also that I never mentioned you or your website by name, and tried to be as fair and even-handed as possible. The Dude has been kind enough to let us have this conversation uncensored, and in fact has actually encouraged the debate as an open forum, which I genuinely appreciate.

I hope you agree, this is not a black and white situation, and that you'll eventually see that you've opened a huge can of worms with this. I think there's a right way and a wrong way to deal with the content of fiction by authors, particularly as it applies to graphic content. And to me, you did it the wrong way.

[movieguy]

I will add this

every writer has a right to choose the site they want

Dude has a right to have the site he want

Deweywriter has a right for the site he want

Drake,Eggman,Crvboy,Scribblerpads,nifty, myself too

we all got the site we want!

every reader has a right to read what they want

if it nifty (and you can find everything there), fine. go for it

if it romance without sex

if it romance with sex

if it a story about love, hurt, winning in love, abuse to make them deal with the subject. then let them read

but to go to another board and complain about another

writer and his rules, that is wrong!

did they ban you out for going to the site?......no

everyone has right, let it be

my story site has hints, but not sex(at least not the full details)

Ryan Keith has Kayden here and at my site and

The Mailcrew, and Scribblerpad

and his story has no sex. but a good story

all the story here has their way of speaking for themselves

to me this is a non-issues, and it should stay that way

all a reader has to do, is do the same thing with the

remote control of the t.v

change site

here you got the mouse

that all there is to it

i'm not here to make waves, but peace

i think dude has a awesome (no puns included) site

i think everyone has a site that deserve anyone attention

that like to read what they got

this is one of them, Dabeagle is another, so is The Glass Onion,

or anyone else

let have peace instead of wars