DesDownunder

Yes Blue I agree. I checked with an elderly English school teacher (here in South Australia) and she was emphatic that "used" was perfectly acceptable and was common usage for many years. As for the could've etc., a thousand thank yous for spelling it out for us. I get very agitated whenever I read *could of*. It is interesting that your local ss sound becomes zz as my name has always been pronounced Dez, but I do not know anyone who says yez instead of yes. Lousy locally means that you are infected with lice, whereas louzy means you a nasty, miserly SOB with an added conotation of deprivation. Is it any wonder that computers can't understand us even when we yell at them?

Thanks ArchangelMatthew72. Tempest of course was a red herring as it is, as you rightly point out a thing in and of itself. I am sure too that your analysis of Gone With The Wind being in use as a phrase before the book is correct. I like the idea that authors might see it is advertising. (Margaret Mitchel was certainly alluding to the disappearing nature of the old South at the time of the American civil War with her title, but there is more depth to the title hidden within the novel. Fleeting is indeed a good word here.) I don't however agree that such usage is necessarily the author parading his ego as to how well he is read or how great he regards the book. Particularly so, when it is only the title that is used. Cetainly I agree with you where an author refers to a real world book title or song as something that a character should read or that a character "really loves" does become a little boring if not condescending to the reader. Parody as I intended here, can be for "fun" or can be a tool for insight or satire. I could just as easily have chosen to write: ...the essence of our lovemaking would soon be blowin' in the wind. Had I chosen this however, the references to North and South would not be valid in connection to the (civil) unrest of the storm in the first sentence. Perhaps I should have been a little more descriptive and added that the two men were soldiers. :D However I take your post as a sign to be moderate in such usages. I am not certain about actually putting these things in italics or quotation marks where they form part of the sentence in a fictional story. In a reference or academic work I would consider it mandatory to use quotes. I think it is more fun for the reader to discover the connection or wonder if there is one in a novel. I'm sure you know that Shakespeare has many such references hidden in his own works to other stories as well as places that were well known in his own time. But I guess he is Shakespeare. I am very grateful for your reply and feel somewhat more confident in approaching my writing. Thanks again. :D

It does indeed, thanks heaps it is a very helpful site.

Yes I think so. Firstly thanks to Graeme, blue, vwl and ArchangelMatthew72 for your speedy and helpful replies. I will cetainly look at the site, vwl. I was really just astounded at the coincidence of having written a section of my story and only then finding a similar segment in a recently posted story (on Nifty). This led me to consider deleting my segment, but decided against such action on the grounds that I had a lot more detail and plot motivation tied up in my descriptions and that the worse that anyone might think is that I had reworked the published idea with more detail. Is this wrongful thinking? There is another nagging thought however, of having been beaten to the punch with the segment's storyline idea, but such is life. For a non-existing example I thought you might like to consider the following for discussion. This is specially written for this forum to see what you think about working *obviously* derived material into a work for the "fun" of it. There was little civility in the approaching storm. The Northerly gusts froze us as we cuddled. Our windswept bodies were stiff with passion. I held him tight as he held me, longing for the release of our own inner tempests. Each of us seeking that release, at the hand of the other. Our faces were flush as much from momentary joy as they were from the biting weather. I could feel his excitement building in ever expanding surges matching ny own. Finally he turned to face the South and I knew that the essence of our lovemaking would soon be gone with the wind. Ok so it's corny. It is only an example but is the use of a well known title in this way considered plagiarism or worse yet an infringement of copyright? What are your thoughts? (yeah, yeah bad taste, but it was a spur of the moment thing). :oops:

I wait with anticipation. Oh dear I am sure I read that phrase somewhere Des

I too wonder about where plagarism ends and originality begins. Several times I have been adding a new scene to my as yet unfinished story, (don't you just love how working interrupts creativity?), only to discover that another author has also used the same idea in a scene in his story. I am not talking about sex scenes as such here - they tend to be somewhat similar by nature and anyway I guess you could say sex is in the public domain. (or should be :roll: ) As an example let's say I write a scene in which a character looks in the mirror and describes himself with some terror at what he sees. The purpose here is to not only promote the plot but to also convey to the reader the physical attributes of the character without resorting to the usual "let me tell you about my appearance and stats." routine. Then quite by accident I read an article about how clumsy this mirror technique is in describing characters. Is this now plagarism. and/or Have I found a way to make the clumsy technique new, interesting and valid for my purposes? Another brief example; I write a scene about (say) lust in a train, then afterwards read a story which has that idea as one of its story elements. Who will believe that I didn't steal the idea from the other story? This is not a new dilemma. Tchaikovsky and Verdi both wrote a very similar tune for their respective operas within weeks of each other. It seems to me that "great minds think alike" to put it politely. Maybe however, mediocrity abounds. I hope not. Also there is the unconscious element of thinking something is new when it is really just a resurfacing memory that presents itself as original thought. Then there is the question of cliches. Are cliches plagarism? Personally I think cliches can be a valid means to satirical revelation, but others may only see the cliche. No easy answers. (tears hair out and looks forlornly at his script which he is sure he wrote and did not copy).

What brought that on rusticmonk? You are far too cute to be an idiot. Anyway I enjoy your dissent from the staus quo. We need all the dissent we can get in today's world.

I was actually referencing POV not tense in my "cliff" example, even though it was in present tense. I think you are right about it being second person. It was the form of telling the reader what to do that I don't particularly like. Anyway I was just trying to show that tense is somewhat dependant on how the author wanted the reader to be involved with his words and that a story can be relayed as an account of past events or that the story can be given the illusion of occurring as it is being read. One method is not better than the other. But overall the second is not always acknowledged or appreciated, perhaps because it is not easy. Have a beer for me Graeme, I am stuck with the coffee, even if it makes me a bit tense. :)