Tanuki Racoon
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Posts posted by Tanuki Racoon
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Happy Kwaanzmaskuh.
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Thanks for your post, skeeter. I think I speak for all of us when I say it's great to hear from our readers.
Lordy, they're coming out of the woodwork....
-- wbms
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Tolkien did it with just about every chapter...I can't think of a better reccomendation for the technique. I remember how LoTR was the first work i read where story lines just changed with no warning...i loved it.
Yes, Tolkien did it in LOTR (my favourite book), Doctrow did it in Ragtime, and other authors did it as well.
No offence to anyone here but nobody here (I include myself) is Tolkien or Doctrow. We'd all like to be, I'm sure.
Some writers can do ANYTHING and get away with it, throw all the rules out the window. However, when someone asks advice, it's always good to remind them that whatever you do, if you confuse your audience, you're probably in trouble.
My two cents
-- EL Doctrow :D
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One of the things that can be done is to segue into a story arch of a different character by stating something like: "And this is the story he told me..." Cheap and cheesy, I know, but it doesn't have to be. You are allowed to shift the PoV when a different character takes over the narrative position, and it can be assumed it is still be told through the pen of the original narrator. It can be convoluted, yet it can be done with tremendous effect (see Frankenstein).
What he said. Almost.
You can't shift too much or your reader will get lost. And when you do it, make sure it's clear you've done it. If you reader has to stop and go back to re-read something, you have failed miserably.
-- wbms
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[And WBMS is not fooling anyone. I've read "Alone by myself" three times since I found it awhile back.
Damn. I thought three people had read my story. I've got one reader who read it three times, and you're it. So much for those AC Nielsen numbers.
Damn.
--wbms
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-- WBMS (lowly author)
Who are you trying to fool?
Graeme
You're right. I'm just a wannabe. I'm sorry.
:
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Hey everyone. Big fan of the site and thought It was about time to sign up in the forums.
Welcome :)
-- WBMS (lowly author)
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The other main one, which I have been caught on a couple of times when I've been in the USA, is "Lemonade". In Australia, this is the generic name for the flavour of soft-drink such as "Sprite" or "7-up".
Graeme
Actually, one of my very favourite drinks is Lemonade -- both the US and UK (also, apparently, Australia) versions. Schweppes Lemonade kicks ass and is freaking AWESOME. It tastes like a very lightly carbonated US Minute Maid lemonade. White's isn't so bad either, though Sainsbury's has too much sugar.
After my first trip to the UK, I fell in love with it. Schweppes may not sell their Lemonade in the US for some technical reasons. I learned this from Coca Cola UK. After much begging, they finally agreed to sell me one case of one litre bottles. Price of the Lemonade was about $10 (?5) and shipping was almost $150. Worth every dime dammit.
Ask me about Mars Bar vs Mars Bar. Oh, shit, I'll just TELL you. The US Mars Bar is called a "Milky Way" over there and vice versa. I never did figure that out. But, damn, the chocolate over there is SO much better. Smarties ROCK -- not the nasty US candy, but the real ones. As a side note, all Canadian chocolate is sold as, and tastes like, the UK version. And you can still get Aero bars!
-- wbms
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Blue pretty much covered it. I've noticed a few in your stories - "barracks", "joey", "cuppa", etc. - but it's never obtrusive. Personally, I like the kind of story where it takes a few second-thoughts to really understand what's being said. I've always found it fun to kind of speculate on the origins and adaptations of the word.
It's funny, although I am American, I've got English (UK) so ingrained in my head, words like "cuppa" and such don't even gain my notice and here you've gone an mentioned them.
-- wbms
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One question:
What are the rules for the semi-colon? I've been through quite a few English classes, and not one of them has taught me how to use the thing. For instance, would "I've been through quite a few English classes; not one of them has taught me how to use the thing." be a correct use of a semi-colon?
Can I add to the question by also asking about semi-colon ';' vs paranthesis '()' vs dashes '--'.
What are the guidelines on when to use each of these?
Again, I refer all of you to EAT, SHOOTS, and LEAVES as mentioned previously in the other thread. Or go here http://tinyurl.com/6nqkb to see the book.
Some people will say that you don't have to be so careful. And that may be true. However punctuation is NOT FLEXIBLE. You are right or you are wrong. The end.
Now, from a more practical standpoint, as both an author and editor I am far more forgiving of what's INSIDE QUOTATION MARKS because people simply don't speak in flawless grammar -- and neither do I despite what you may think from my anal posts :)
SEMI-COLON:
You have two related COMPLETE sentences. Basically it's a period not followed by a capital letter. The difference is the second sentence is directly related to and inseperable from the previous one. (You did indeed use it correctly).
COLON:
I have a thought: blue, grub beetles. It's similar to a semi-colon but the part following it need not be a complete sentence. Together they form one thought.
DASH:
See previous paragraph for useage example. It's to set off an appositive clause. In many cases, the use of a dash is incorrect because you cannot join two complete sentences with a coma. Ever. Don't do it because you've made a run-on sentence. That's when you may use a dash.
PARENTHESIS:
These do not belong in a well written story. Never. If you need to use a parenthetical statement to explain something, you've not written it well to begin with. A parenthesis in a work of fiction means the author hasn't done a good job. In a work of non-fiction, it's to explain something that is barely related to what you are typing, but the reader might want to know. We were discussing computing theory (much like Turing did) in today's class. Even that is very, very, sloppy. Nothing you use a parenthesis for needs to or should be written that way.
Again, go read the book Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. It's good. It's humorous, and it's the final say on many things including my most beloved Oxford Comma.
-- wbms
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All sorts of deletia
(1) When you have IT'S and ITS questions, it's very simple to figure it out. READ IT OUT LOUD. When you see "IT'S" say "IT IS" and a sentence like:
The dog lost it's collar
will be instantly recognized as incorrect. Of course the converse is a bit more difficult because it sounds right. So a sentence like
Its hard to tell when you're right
is wrong but you won't notice it unless you realize you haven't said IT IS.
(2) When you have YOUR and YOU'RE questions, it's very simple to figure it out. READ IT OUT LOUD. When you see "YOU'RE" say "YOU ARE" and a sentence like:
Where is you're book
will be instantly recognized as incorrect. The converse situation such as
Your going home
is hard to tell verbally for some people. However in the case of YOUR/YOU'RE, they are NOT PROPERLY pronounced the same. It's the fact most people don't pronounce them differently that causes the problem. I'm weird; when I listen to the radio I can sometimes tell when the announce is reading a sheet that has the word spelled wrong.
YOUR rhymes with YORE
YOU'RE sort of rhymes with SEWER
(3) Blue left off the infamous To/Too/Two error.
TWO is a number
TO is a directional
TOO means also or an excess of
I'm doing this all from memory, so although accurate may not be entirely complete.
-- wbms
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However' date=' I made so many corrections to one author's first draft he nearly cried and didn't speak to me for a week "There's so much red
I know one editor who has done some work for me that returns documents filled with so much red that I'm happy if I can find two or three consecutive paragraphs without a change. However' date=' as you said for your writer, it's making me a better author because by looking at what they changed, and why, I am learning how to phrase my sentences to be clearer and more concise.[/quote']
That's the ENTIRE point. One of my authors gets a random comma or typo and no other corrections, but he's a much better writer than I am.
I think we are in danger of diverging this topic into on editing and editing practises. While I'm quite for happy for this to occur' date=' I think it should be in a thread of it's :DYou're probably right, but the two topics ARE related. How do you separate the two? Seriously. All these mechanical questions that started it off are directly related to editing.
Anyone want to start one? :DNo :D
-- wbms
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Yep, a good editor is not afraid to get brutal with his/her writer when it's called for...but only when it's called for and only in a nicely phrased way. Don't put up with an editor who can't be kind and helpful is my advice. There are plenty of us out there who love editing enough that you shouldn't have to deal with a lot of evil bitchiness.
There are many people who like editing, but there are VERY few good editors. I edit for two on-line authors* and I am (realtively) pleasant as long as there are no IT'S errors :
: This is not to say I won't take an author to task over something, but I am nice about it. A good editor cannot be afraid to say, "This isn't working. Do it over."However, I made so many corrections to one author's first draft he nearly cried and didn't speak to me for a week "There's so much red in this!". Then he realized, it made him a better writer.
-- wbms
* I can't mention I edit for them at their request. My editors are free to brag (or hide in shame) as they see fit ::evil grin::
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Now WBMS pull me to the front of the class and tell me how many errors I made in this post... (hehe... kiss... kiss). No hard feelings... writing is good for my soul and I'll continue to do it until I die... errors and all.
Nope. I had a POINT to make last time. I make errors, too. No shame in errors. Of course, if you make an IT'S error again I may have to hunt you down and kill you because my nerves can't handle another one.
And you make an absolutely CRITICAL point, in that if the story isn't good it really doesn't matter how good or bad you are with grammar, syntax, and diction.
-- wbms
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on it's own
on it is own? ::shudder::
If your seriousYour serious what?
First, I wish to scream at the violation of proper grammar above. ::shudder:: Two of my three pet peeves in one document. However, I will move on once I gasp for air. Actually, I don't want to pick on you. I want to point out that this is why one should NEVER, EVER trust a spell checking or grammar checking program. One should ALWAYS read what one has written a day or two later. I do not write with a spell checker. I do not even know how to USE a grammar checker. Simple errors like this will be caught by re-reading your own words. (I also understand that this is a forum and it doesn't really matter but since we were discussing grammar, I seized the opportunity to make a point).
Jamie, grammar offences aside, all your points were actually accurate. I failed Graeme when I didn't point out that style is not dependant upon formatting. Indeed, the most important test is WILL THE READER UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN WITHOUT SLOWING DOWN OR RE-READING. If you can't pass that test, you have failed miserably. If you have passed that, then the rest is details.
-- wbms
(PS: Jamie, don't hate me. I really wasn't picking on you. Promise.)
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Oh' date=' and I'll be sure to pick up Eats' date=' Shoots, and Leaves.[/quote'']This is a FINE book. To save you the trouble, here's the direct URL to it: Eats, Shoots, and Leaves on Amazon UK. I think everyone should read it.
/* edited by forum admin -- the URL was so long it made the column too wide, but the link is still there. */
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And he likes football too! LOL
Damn straight (if you'll forgive the poor choice of words)
-- wbms
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Paragraphs
Many authors on the internet seem to use a simple format where each paragraph is separated by a blank line. Some, however, use indentation on the first line, sometimes without the blank line between the paragraphs.
Any comments on the various options?
If you want to submit to a publisher the correct answer is NO SPACE between paragraphs and indent the first line. However, for online reading it's HORRIBLE so everyone puts a blank space between lines. I do not indent my paragraphs for my online works, however many people do.
Quotation marksMost authors seem to use double quotes for dialog, but reviewing some of my paperbacks, most of these seem to use single quotes. Are there rules on when to use double vs single quotes?
Everyone here has given you incomplete answers. If you speak the Queen's English you use SINGLE quotations around dialogue, and DOUBLE on the internal quotes within that dialogue. If you speak American English then it's the OPPOSITE of that. Further, in the Queen's English the punctuation goes on the OUTSIDE of the quote marks and in American English, it goes INSIDE the quote mark.
You, sir, are a man after my own heart because you care. I will direct you to Eat, Shoots, and Leaves a most excellent book on the subject of proper punctuation -- and it includes differences between the US and UK English versions.
When there is a scene or significant change, many authors use some sort of section break, ranging from a simple line of asterisks to more complex lines. What do people recommend as the most effective scene break? Does it really matter?There is no proper answer for this. For simplicity sake, five asterisks (or bullets) centered with one blank line above and below will do. Or five blank lines works, but when it splits over a page, it gets messed up. So you're better off with the asterisks. For publishing purposes, read the submission guidelines for that house. They will have them on their website.
Hope this was of some value.
-- wbms
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2.) the cinematography is astounding.
Go see it! it's long, but it's worth every minute.
Yes, visually it was a great movie. However it was WAY TOO LONG and to me that detracted from it. I wanted to yell SHUT UP at the screen at one point. Ugh.
-- wbms
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"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat." - John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy, 1981-1987
In rebuttal, I offer:
"Power corrupts the few; weakness corrupts the many." -- Eric Hoffer
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Now, this is a fine story.
You gotta love the Dudester even if it's only for the one thing he does best: Bringing us literature and not porn. Another work of art. Oddly, I vaguely remember reading something like this a long time ago. Still I was moved, quite possibly to tears.
Read it.
-- wbms
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Well actually, i don't. I don't get the rules and it looks like a good way to fracture something.
Hey, what's wrong with football dammit? :)
-- wbms
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..... I just wanted to congratulate you on your decision. I haven't been posting much lately, but it doesn't mean I'm not reading or don't care :)
-- wbms
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Just finished 7 & 8. Wow. Very impressed with the ending of 8. Moving. Well done. Yay.
-- wbms
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: This is not to say I won't take an author to task over something, but I am nice about it. A good editor cannot be afraid to say, "This isn't working. Do it over."Scan to donate
Help!
in Writers' Workshop
Posted
::hugs::
Ask and ye shall receive.....
-- wbms