dont know

[Guest]

I need help with something, when i was in my junior year of high <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=school&v=56">school</a> i had a <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=gay&v=56">gay</a> friend give me oral pleasure. he is <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=gay&v=56">gay</a> and i wasent but when he did this to me i dident like it that much. but i look at <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=gay&v=56">gay</a> porn and it turns me on. i also <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=love&v=56">love</a> girls to. am i <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=gay&v=56">gay</a> or not

[Guest]

I need help with something, when i was in my junior year of high school i had a friend give me oral pleasure. he is gay and i wasent but when he did this to me i dident like it that much. but i look at gayporn and it turns me on. i also love girls to. am i gay or not?

[blue]

A little techie humor, maybe? :roll: -- But the tags don't work that way on forums. :!: -- I'll give you props for it though.

You asked nicely, though, and there's no meanness there, only a little cleverness.

And since your question deserves a serious answer, I'll try to give you one.

Why worry about labels and pigeonholes? Whether you like girls, guys, or both is between you and whoever you go out with (and whatever deity you believe in) and not really anyone else's place to comment on.

Only you truly know what you like and don't like. Maybe you're not sure if you like something or not comfortable if you did like something. That's OK, you'll figure yourself out if you're honest with yourself.

You seem to be tolerant enough and classy enough to call it "oral pleasure," and you said the guy was your friend. That's appreciated.

If you didn't like what you two did together, that's OK. Did you telll your friend that nicely and honestly?

If you do look at gay porn and like it, well, OK. Does that make you gay? Not necessarily. I'm not weaseling out of answering, I'm just saying only you know for sure.

The scientific studies (Kinsey, and probably others) say that most people aren't 100% straight or 100% gay; most people are somewhere in between. That's the "Kinsey scale."

This can change at different times in your life. It's typical for teens to experiment as part of learning about themselves. When you're older, you might have different feelings. When you're lonely, you might have other feelings.

Friendship is one kind of love; it usually isn't sexual, but it can move in and out of sexual feelings too. Maybe that seems weird to you, but it happens. In straight relationships, the truest love is when the couple are friends as well as lovers.

Hey, if you wanted a serious answer, that's my best shot. I'm sorry if that isn't the clear yes or no you were looking for. Only you know how you feel, and that may take some sorting out for you to know for sure.

My short answer would be that if you didn't like what your friend and you did, then hey, you didn't like it. If you like looking at gay porn, then maybe you're curious or maybe you'd like to try something.

Maybe you simply are lonely for a close friend or mentor, and you're not even interested in sex, you just want someone to talk to and be close to and share normal, healthy affection like a pat on the back (attaboy, buddy) or a hug (glad to see ya, friend). There's nothing abnormal or sexual about that. Everybody needs a hug or a pat on the back and everybody needs friends.

Hey, if you do want more than that, something intimate, that's your business.

Practice safe sex. Be good to the people you're with, whatever their relationship with you is.

Hope that helps.

[Guest]

Blue knew i was going to comment on this, didn't he? *sigh* i'm just a moth to the flame (i heard that comment, blue...and you are sooo not funny!) for questions like this.

I guess the reason i am is because the sh*t i went thru trying to figure out the same thing. As most any older guy will tell you, "back in the day, there was no internet, no support groups, no (available) gay rags...nothin'." Add to the growing up in a town of 1200 souls, all of them to all appearances straight, and it makes for a pretty tough coming out scenario.

I had a math teacher in high school who was pretty smart, though i didn't know it at the time. Math was pretty much a waste of time for me, but one thing he said stuck with me: "Confusion is the last step before understanding." What he meant by that is that it's not a bad thing to be confused...it means you know enough to know you don't know, but the question has come up and you're considering it. You're on your way to understanding.

and that's where i see you, some guy. and it's not a bad place to be, no matter what it feels like.

IMHO, being gay is not about who you have sex with...guys are designed to be able to have sex with just about anybody, given the right circumstances. That's just a matter of lowered inhibitions and tab A fitting into slot B. No, gay is about who you fall in love with...that is the proof. I am gay...i fall in love exclusively with other men. I have met men who fall in love with both women and men--they're bi. I have met men who fell in love with a woman, had children and then fallen in love with a man--they're tragic(not in the slang sense, in the real sense). It makes sense to me to wait for all that (wife, children, etc.) until you know in your own mind what/who you want. If you suspect there could be some gay tendencies going on, explore those feelings a bit...it's not going to change who you are, but it might change who you think you are, and that's always a good thing.

bottom line: getting laid is cool, but it's just body parts. the real deal is when you get emotionally involved.

Since this is a literary site, try this: write a love story, with yourself as the main character, and in that story, fall in love with a man. keep checking in with your feelings about it as you go. i think it could be a good learning experience.

Good luck. and come back sometime, if you wanna, and let us know what you find out.

cheers!

aj

[blue]

First Point:

Tragic? Those guys genuinely love their wives and kids. It's unfortunate that they didn't realize or couldn't open up sooner, but I can't and won't judge them.

After all, I've been stuck in the closet for a long time. Confusion? Oh, you betcha, nearly any question and self-doubt you could think of.

Your feelings aren't some light switch that turns on like a bright neon sign one day that says, "STRAIGHT" or "GAY" or "FLEXIBLE." -- Your feelings develop over time, even as an adult.

Second Point:

How do you really know if you're gay, straight, or what? Here are a few questions to think about. Which do you think about more, guys, girls, or both equally?

* Do you mostly think about guys or girls?

* Who do you find more attractive sexually or romantically?

* Who do you think about mostly when you fantasize?

* Who do you think of when you play with yourself? (Admit it, you do that.)

* Who do you dream about?

* When you're just running around doing whatever, do you notice guys or girls? Do you suddenly notice someone as attractive?

* What about in situations like at the beach, the lockerroom, or with a roommate?

* When you look at pictures, erotic or not, who do you like?

* When you have physical contact (not necessarily sexual) *who* (male or female) turns you on?

Those are some of the usual questions that can tell you your preferences. Your answers to each question may not match.

You may be more attracted to certain friends. That doesn't mean you're one thing or the other, it just means you have more varied or stronger feelings for those friends.

Maybe once in a while, you see someone and feel attracted. That also doesn't tell you for sure, it just means you found that particular person attractive.

Um, just to be clear, any male is going to be capable of a physical reaction with enough stimulation, whether they want to or not. If you read something like Desmond Morris' Naked Ape, you'll find that our human reactions are basic and similar to other species. So even in non-sexual situations, guys respond the way their equipment is designed to.

So what tells you for sure? What are most of your answers saying? But more importantly, what do you feel deep down? Are you still confused? Yes, you might be. Of course it's confusing.

Sex is so basic and deep down that it's part of everything from our most animal-like instincts to our highest thoughts and feelings. Because it's so basic and so interwoven, it's difficult to understand.

Yep, it goes right up there with all those other big life questions.

Third Point:

It can be tough to make sense of your feelings if they disagree with what you believe and what the people you care about believe. It doesn't make you a bad person.

If you have questions, find help answering them, online and in person. If you are troubled about things, get help. There are people who want to help.

[Guest rusticmonk86]

You don't really have to decide whether you're straight or gay. If it worries you that much, you can call yourself bisexual (if you like both boys and girls.) Truth is, sexuality is fluid. That is, it changes constantly. And why shouldn't it. If you like chocolate ice cream when you were 5, then discovered you liked vanilla five years ago but now realize you like fruit more . . . . Why shouldn't you be able to like guys then girls or guys and girls? You're stressing too much.

And don't even worry about this whole closet thing, either. Who's fucking business is it to know who you're sleeping with (if it doesn't harm you or anyone else?) Or who you let suck your dick? Or who you kissed? Or think about?

I mean, if you want to gloat about, "Yeah, dude, Kevin gives great head. He made me come in, like, 30 seconds."

And the dude who did it wants to say, "Oh man! Josh has the biggest dick I've ever seen-- but he makes the funniest face when she sprays!"

Then go for it. But if you don't, get an uderstanding first. Don't fucking bully each other into silence. Just make sure the other person knows you don't want your business going all around school.

Like that kid's gonna go and tell the whole school anyway. He's probably in the closet just like you.

So why worry?

Abrassively Yours,

Gabriel

[Guest rusticmonk86]

Free Love!

[Guest]

Apparently my parenthetical note about my meaning and use of the word 'tragic' was not sufficent. What i meant in my use of that word was not the slang meaning: pathetic, stupid, or hopelessly maladjusted. not at all.

What i meant by that is that it involves great pain and loss to many people...very nearly everyone involved: the children, the wife, the husband who is at the epicenter, and not uncommonly the other love interest. how is that not tragic? Particularly if it's brought on by a willful ignoring of one's nature at an earlier age? I recognize that this is not always the case, but most of the men in this position that I talk to tell me that they had a pretty good idea about this stuff before they got married, and for one reason or another continued forward with the marriage anyway.

cheers,

aj

[Graeme]

What i meant by that is that it involves great pain and loss to many people...very nearly everyone involved: the children, the wife, the husband who is at the epicenter, and not uncommonly the other love interest. how is that not tragic? Particularly if it's brought on by a willful ignoring of one's nature at an earlier age? I recognize that this is not always the case, but most of the men in this position that I talk to tell me that they had a pretty good idea about this stuff before they got married, and for one reason or another continued forward with the marriage anyway.

aj,

I understand what you are saying, and yes, many families in this situation end up in tragedy. I can speak with some confidence on this as I am currently going through the same issue.

In my case, though, my wife and I have decided that we want to stay together as a married couple - not just staying together for the sake of the children. We are only just starting this process and it's not easy. From what we have been told, only 15% of couple even try to stay together, and only 7% actually make it. Luckily, the 15% is a statistic, not a probability, and we are automatically in it because we want to try. Our chances are also enhanced because I do NOT have an "other love interest" - my coming out to my wife was for different reasons (honesty being the main one).

I have to disagree with the term "willful" that you used. The situation is rarely as simple as that. In my case, I did not "ignore" my nature, but instead was incredibly fearful of the consequences of accepting it. "Willful" was certainly NOT what I was doing.

Having said that, I sincerely loved my wife when I proposed, and I still love her today. If you look at percentages, I'd probably say that I'm 80% homosexual and 20% hetrosexual. Yes, I knew I was gay before we married, but I am certainly NOT unhappy in my marriage. I can dream about what life I could have had if I'd gone down another path, but then I wouldn't have the life I have now (including two wonderful children).

Last weekend I said to my wife, "We can't regret the things that could have been. We just have to celebrate the things we have."

I'm now off to continue my celebration.

Graeme

[Guest]

Hey aussie--

i admire you for your honesty and straightforward way of dealing with your situation. It speaks very well for both you and your wife that the two of you have decided to continue to walk down the road together, and i suspect that much of that can be credited to the above mentioned handling of the situation. So many of the men in your shoes that i have known have not been nearly so honest, and that rarely works out very well.

I would be the first to raise a champagne toast at your celebration.

cheers!

aj

addendum: this god's forsaken thing is telling me once again that my username is already taken, despite having logged on before starting this note. *sigh* sorry for the 'guest' designation.

[Dewey]

Yes, in retrospect, all the signs were there.

I can remember things as far back as five or six years old that involved fantasies about men and boys. I can remember wrestling with a friend when I was 8. I can remember looking at porn when I was 11 or 12 and focusing on the male models. I can remember watching guys in the locker rooms. I can remember playing with three or four friends at different times during my early teens. I remember having a one night stand while I was in the military with someone who was 'curious'. I remember each of my three wet dreams focused on men. I remember all of this now, but somehow my mind managed to suppress it; to prevent me from putting it all together.

I didn't understand what was happening until I was 28 when I read a story by an author we're all aware of. For whatever reason, his story emotionally devastated me, and literally incapacitated me for four days. During that time, I figured it all out. During that time, I finally used the term gay in reference to myself. I was in a hotel room eight hundred miles from home.

I married when I was 24. It was the right thing to do. I loved my wife then, and I love my wife now. We had a child three days after my 28th birthday. Three months later, I was gay. Of course, I know I?ve been gay since I was born, but for some reason I couldn?t -- or wouldn?t -- put the pieces together. When I did, I absolutely lost my sense of self, my sense of purpose, and to some extent, my sense of what was right in the world. I cursed God, my parents, the writer who broke me, myself, my penis, and everything else remotely related to sexuality. I was married with a child. I couldn?t be gay.

My job had me traveling extensively. I spent a lot of time in places over one thousand miles from home. I spent most of my time away in my room writing. However, about eighteen months after I collapsed in that hotel room, I was foolish enough to get involved with a man I had met on-line. He in turn introduced me to the man I fell in love with. It all ended badly, of course, with the object of my affection hating me and my spouse discovering the truth.

My therapist put me in a group for sexual addicts, ostensibly to teach me that abstinence would be the answer to curing my ?gay problem?. It was helpful. It taught me how to better deal with many of the problems I had, except for the one it was supposed to cure.

It?s been nearly five years since my epiphany, and just over three since my wife discovered the truth. We?re going to a counselor now to see if keeping our family together is realistic. I honestly don?t know what the future will bring.

I did not choose any of this. It was not a conscious decision on my part to suppress my sexuality, to keep it a secret even from myself. I married whom I married because I love her and can love her. I had children because I felt and still feel I can be a good father. One thing you can be certain of, those of you reading this: if I had realized I was gay before I married my wife, we wouldn?t be married now. I wouldn?t have the two beautiful girls that now call me ?daddy?. I would not have written For the Love of Pete, Brian and Pete, Life From A Distance and the rest. I would not have met the men I now call ?brother? and mean it in my heart.

Everything happens for a reason. I firmly believe this. I have my belief in my God, and I trust Him for me, regardless of whether or not anyone else shares my beliefs. I know my God has led me to this place. I know I have done what I have for a reason, and that everything that has occurred to get me here is part of that plan. I have to trust that the rest of my life will be guided by the same hand that has directed me here. If our family is meant to stay together, we will discover the means to do that. If not, then the journey is not yet over for me.

Only time will tell.

[aj]

The journey is never over. How one makes that journey is the deciding factor in the quality of one's life...and is usually decided by the quality of one's being. i'm pretty sure that whether Dewey and Aussie had married and broken up, married and stay together with their wives, or never married at all, thier's are the kinds of journeys that i aspire to.

Having said that, i will also say that i won't back away from my appelation of 'tragic' in describing the results of the situation i described in my earlier post. Please don't believe that i use the term lightly or flippantly...indeed not. You see, i too have experience in this area, only from a different side. I was the object of his affections, the one who waited for him to call, the one who came over and took care of his two most beautiful boys when his wife was out of town. And i saw, after a time, that whether i was making dinner for the three of them, or reading to the boys from a Hardy Boys book, or lying in his arms at night, it wasn't real, and none of it belonged to me. Oh, the love i had for him was real...and i think he loved me in some way. But it was all stolen--none of it was really mine, and never would be. So i left (ok, fled is a better term) and it hurt very badly. But i learned something, and that was good. I only seem to learn the real lessons with a lot of pain involved.

i don't know if they're still together or not. I hope so...he loved his wife. He loved me too, i like to think. I haven't talked to him much, after explaining why i was not going to see him again.

And that is why, when i meet confused young men like the guy who started this thread, and they tell me they don't know and are worried, i encourage them to try to be sure before they engage the affections of another and make committments that may later become impossible to honorably keep.

cheers,

aj

[Dewey]

Thank you for the clarification, AJ. I can understand how you came to derive the term 'tragic' in this context.

An interesting point that came up in a recent discussion I had with my wife is how much our own experiences color the way we view the world. Your experiences described above would certainly affect your perspective.

For myself, 'tragic' is not the word I would use given the circumstances of my relationship. Perhaps, at some future date, I may agree that the adjective is appropriate, but not at this time.

For what it's worth, I empathize with the pain your experiences have caused you. I have some idea of the emotional damage that has been inflicted upon you, and for that you have my heart-felt sympathy.

Be well.

Dwayne

[blue]

Well, I hope our answers helped "some guy" some. -- Hey, some guy, did that help, or are you still confused? -- Take care, bud; whatever the answer is for you, you'll figure it out sooner or later. You're welcome to ask more.

Dewey, aj, aussie, rustic, etc. -- Your answers helped me some too.