Graeme

I quite often work the same way. I will admit that when I've done this, I've been occassionally surprised at what comes out. There are several things in New Brother that were not originally planned. They came up during writing when I found a character thinking/saying something unexpected. As for some characters being harder -- David's initial reaction was easy, but trying to keep him "on-track" wasn't always simple. Apart from religious based homophobia (which I deliberately avoided) I personally had a great deal of trouble thinking of how to maintain the conflict. I just couldn't work out how someone can keep a homophobic attitude when the issue is no longer abstract, but they are confronted by a real person. Because of the scene at the end of chapter 8, I needed him to still keep his attitude to maximise it's impact. My eventual decision was for him to confuse his other conflicts with Adam with Adam being gay. In hindsight, I've wondered how many people do this is real-life. Graeme

Thanks! While it was one of the things that I was concerned about when I started writing, trying to explicitly give each character a different personality was not something I gave a lot of thought to as I wrote the story. Unless someone has some helpful suggestions, I'll just keep trying to write characters as I'm doing, as it seems to be working. It's hard to say exactly what I was doing, but I think I've been trying to put myself in the place of each character as I wrote their sections. If this has resulted in distinct characterisations, then I'll just continue to do so. Does anyone else have any suggestions in this area? I know it's one thing that annoys me sometimes when I'm reading a story and I find the various characters just bluring together in my mind because there isn't sufficient differences between them. Graeme

Thanks! You can see why that's MailCrew's favourite chapter. It's probably mine too, though that's harder for me to pick as there are a number of other scenes that I'm proud of, too. That ending is actually the first part of the story that I wrote. I had the idea for the scene and tried writing it to see if I could put my idea into words successfully. I was happy enough with it that I started writing the whole story. The final result you read is not what I originally wrote (it's been through several edits), but the core of it is. Cheers, Graeme

Australian Translation (take it with a grain of salt ): This is an essay about someone who seemed incapable of growing up. They needed help to develop into an adult and it was denied to them. So they stayed a child in their mind. aj -- how did I do? Graeme

DeweyWriter is current off-line and will be for about 12 hours (I think) for server maintenance/fixing. Try again tomorrow. Cheers, Graeme :D

While the root of the word homophobia means "fear of the same" (homo = same, phobia = fear) common usage has it as being equivalent of "anti-gay". For example, hatred of homosexuals is technically not homophobia (it's not fear) but I don't think anyone would be able to successfully argue that is what society thinks. And before anyone disagrees, homo also means human (as in homo sapien). Other examples where homo means same are homonym (words with the same sound), homogenous (all of the same or similar nature). Graeme

Thanks everyone for the comments. As a new writer, the thing that intrigued me was how closely most comments matched the ideas that were in my head for why things were happening. I'm taking that as a compliment that I managed to get those ideas across successfully. I made a promise to someone that my next story would NOT be narrated by a homophobe. I'll make the same promise to Dude. No guarantees that he'll like it but if he doesn't, it won't be for that reason. Cheers, Graeme :D

Oh, and if it comes over as I'm being a bit defensive, please remember that this is my first story. :D I'm not offended by reasoned criticism, but furious rationalisation after the fact is something I do regularly. When I run out of steam, I usually concede the argument Graeme

Hi, Dude, Thanks for the comments. You've picked up on what is probably the biggest weakness of the story -- the justification for David's homophobia. You are not the first to question this either. I have tried to explain it early in chapter 3: I'm taking the example here from my own upbringing. Homosexuality was a subject that I didn't hear discussed by any adults until I was in my late teens. As a consequence my opinions on the subject (even though I knew I'm gay at that early age) were largely driven by my peers at school which in turn were driven by older siblings, etc. Randy is two years younger than David and hence has had that much less exposure to these attitudes from other school kids. David, who has received more "social indoctrination", reacted as he had been "taught". POTENTIAL SPOILER FOLLOWING: Apart from the strong reaction in chapter two and the followup in chapter three, I would personally question whether David is particularly homophobic. I would ask you to consider whether his attitude to Adam is because he's gay, or whether it is because he's having trouble coping with the results of that announcement. I may be drawing a fine line here, but it's one that I consider important. Just because he's taken a dislike to Adam and Adam is gay, does not make David homophobic. Even his reactions in chapters five and six are directed at Adam because of the consequences of the announcement, not at Adam's homosexuality itself. You are right to consider this as a potential issue. I would argue that all homophobic reactions are irrational anyway, but that is besides the point. My response would be that I would ask them to continue reading. There are a couple of lessons I believe can be learnt in the story. 1) Try to look at things from the other persons point of view. By presenting a story from a non-gay point of view, I'm trying to show how others can react in an apparantly illogical manner, but that it seems to make sense to them. 2) Don't assume that if someone has a bad reaction to your "coming out" that it is automatically homophobia. David has had a particular bad reaction (okay, I'll admit that I made it particularly strong) but later chapters do not show that attitude continuing. Look carefully at WHY David continues to have a conflict with Adam. It is NOT because he's gay. It is because of what is going on around the two of them, and David doesn't like THAT. Thanks again, Dude, for posting your comments. I found them very useful in working out what things I need to improve in my story development. Graeme

Dude asked in the News for this week if he was the only one disturbed by the homophobic nature of the narrator. I know he isn't, as I've had someone else tell me that they are enjoying the story but they are reading slowly because they have to take their homophobia in small doses. I also suspect that others have simply switched off and stopped reading. This was something I was aware could happen when I chose to write the story the way I did. I will admit that I've been pleasantly surprised about the minimal amount of negative feedback I've had on this topic. I was bracing myself for a lot more. So, in the interests of learning more and trying to improve my writing, what are other peoples opinions? Is the story better or worse with the homophobic content? When I originally had the idea of writing a "coming-out" story from a non-gay point of view, I could have used a sympathetic narrator. I chose a homophobic one because I thought it would increase the tension and conflict and provide more options for interest. Did I make the right choice? Graeme

Thanks! I had several attempts in wording that opening section to make sure it would have that affect without making it sound stilted. Graeme

Thanks, EleCivil, Can you tell me why you gave up? Too boring at the start? Too much character background information being supplied and not enough happening to keep the interest? I would like at some stage to go back and try to fix chapter one, but I would like some suggestions on what you feel is going wrong. Suggestions on how to fix it would be even more appreciated! :D Thanks, Graeme

I've been putting off reading any new stories because it tends to take me away from writing my own. However, tonight I was in the mood to read something new instead of writing, and Leaves and Lunatics got the nod. I was very impressed! (not that that is very hard, so don't read too much into that ). As a reader, I think I have to disagree with Pecman. There is sufficient interest in the story that trying to make the plot stronger would run the risk of taking the interest away from the central characters. Not every reader wants a story that "moves". Probably my only criticism would be that after the strong development of the two lead characters and to a lesser extent Jerry, Andrew and Jill seem very pale in comparison. They seem to be playing a sufficiently major role in the story that developing them further seems imperative. My opinion only, of course :D Graeme

Ummm, excuse me, but now that four chapters are up, does anyone have any constructive criticisms? This is the first thing I have written since school (which is WAY too long ago) and, while Aaron has done a brilliant job of editting, I can't believe no one (apart from WBMS) has anything to say that can help me improve my writing. Graeme :?

Hi, Blue, At this point in time, I'm not intending to do anything more with this. Of course, if inspiration strikes, I reserve the right to change my mind... The main problem is how to continue it without destroying it. The ideas I had were: a) Using it as the introduction to a more traditional story told from Tommy's POV b) Having a prayer by either Tommy or Brad c) Using it as an introduction to the scene at the next Sunday School when Miss Sally is asked some difficult questions... None of these really appeal to me at the moment. For a moment I thought of having God reply, but that's been done before and I don't think I could do it justice :D Graeme

Thanks, WBMS. I've always felt that the first chapter was the weakest, but I've had trouble working out how to make it stronger. After agonising several times on it, I eventually gave up and moved onto the rest of the story. If you have any suggestion, I'll be happy to take them on. I've already re-written parts of that chapter a couple of times, and if I can make it better, it's something I'd like to do (even if it's awhile before I get back to doing it). Paul said to me when I was first writing it, chapters one and two are really two sections of one chapter. I've always felt that both chapters had to be published together, and Paul was just saying that in a different way. Graeme

I should warn you that the early chapters at DeweyWriter will NOT be quite the same as posted here. Paul (gpaulbishop) was one of my early editors (and pointed me in the direction of this site as well). From chapter four, he got Aaron from the mailcrew involved in the editing as well. I was so impressed by Aaron's work that I've had him re-edit the first few chapters as well (after I went back and fixed the worst of the problems). Because I was ALSO hassling him to edit the new chapters, AND he also does the editing for Ryan Keith and at least one other author that I'm aware of, it's taken him a bit of time to come back with these early chapters. The wait has definitely been worthwhile, though. So the delay has been because I've wanted Aaron to go over the early chapters, but I also told him to give it low priority, as he has a lot of other commitments. Finally, taking the risk of hijacking the thread, today is Aaron's 16th birthday -- so here is another public thank you to the Wunderkid who's made such a difference to the story. HAPPY BIRTHDAY AARON! Graeme

Thanks, Dude! I want to say up front that I have already written ten chapters of the story, so if it looks like I'm not taking the feedback onboard, it's just that most of the story is already written. I am intending to write more, but I'm waiting until I can get some advice on what I've done so far. :D Graeme

Nice to see you here, Ryan. I hope you keep coming back. Graeme

In the various stories I've read that include foreign languages (for the record, I only know English), I haven't had a problem when the meaning of the foreign phrase can be derived from the context. Julian May's Millenium SF story is a good example. It has French scattered throughout the story, but it's always pretty clear what is being said from the context. eg. A question was asked in French. Another character replies "Thanks" and takes a drink from a whisky flask. It was obvious that the question was asking if they wanted a drink. It's when the phrase defines the context, or contains important information; that's when a translation should be provided. My opinion only, of course. Graeme

As part of an email discussion with Ryan about One Life, I made the comment people read stories for different reasons -- and the same person can have different reasons at different times. The traditional "feel-good" story definitely has a place. For people like Dude, it's a break -- a retreat to a "better" place than the reality they encounter in their daily lives. It can also help bring someone back from the edge (see The MailCrew - how it started for an example). A tragedy, such as One Life, also has a place. It can help show that life can go on, and while pain persists, joy can return. This can be an important lesson sometimes. It may also simply help someone by showing that they are not alone in what they are going through. Sometimes a story can just educate. By showing circumstances that a person can relate to, or can understand, they can learn more about what could be going on, and may take some action. I will admit that reading several stories about fostering of gay teens has made me interested in the idea of becoming a foster parent. I'm sure others can think of many examples, or other "purposes" of a story. The above are just a few that I've come up with. Graeme[/url]

My view on this is that what makes the stories interesting to both the writer and the reader is the conflict that arises between the "straight" and "gay" elements. If you eliminate the "straight" elements, then you end up with a situation that is effectively the same as if you had eliminated the "gay" elements - ie. a fairly standard story, presumably on relationships. Of course, it's quite possible to do so. However, if anything "defines" gay fiction, it has to be the conflict between gay and straight. Otherwise, take any typical "straight" story and simply change the sex of one of the members of the "love interest" to make it a "gay" story. As you mentioned, Paul, there are stereotypes within the "gay sub-culture", and exploring these could be used to provide the conflict required to hold the readers attention. This is, however, more difficult to do successfully (at least for the less experienced writers). It is also, probably, interesting to a smaller community of readers. My opinion only, of course, so feel free to disagree (as if anyone on this board would hesitate :roll: ) :D Graeme

I've been giving this a lot of thought, and I disagree that more foreshadowing was required. The end of chapter 5 was sufficient, in my opinion, to indicate that SOMETHING was going to happen that involved Tyler's father. Just because it wasn't kept in the foreground does not make invalid. In a completely different thread, there were discussions on how much conflict is too much. In that thread, it was argued that as long as events were a logical conclusion of previous events and actions, then those events are acceptable. The previous chapters had, apparently as a sub-plot, shown Tyler breaking from his dad, and that the break was NOT amicable. The end of chapter 5 then brought this squarely back into focus. While the appearance at the wedding was shocking, both the appearance and the actions were perfectly reasonable and within character for the father. Just my opinion only, and I'll admit that I'm biased in Ryan's favour. Graeme

Hi, Gabe, I haven't written a response before now, because I don't think I know enough to offer constructive criticism. I read the posts and then went to read the story. I agree - there is something missing from the story, but for the life of me, all I can come up with is its "flat" -- whatever that means :roll: I thought the actual writing was great -- the scoutmaster, in particular, was a character that quickly gained some depth. Was it too predictable? Were there insufficient emotions being presented from the protaganist? As I said at the start, I'm just not experienced enough to be able to say what it was that I thought it was lacking -- sorry. Graeme

I remember reading once that accents are more often on the different ways of saying the vowels. Certainly, that's the essential difference between the Australian and New Zealand accents (the i and e pronounciations are effectively swapped). For me, the word "sought" is pronounced exactly the same as the word "sort" which rhymes with "abort". Graeme