Help me find this story again please.

[ricky]

Lost track of the story or where it was hosted.

A great story about a young man who finds a bot-boy (robot boy) in a dumpster. He rescues it and a great story ensues.

Thanks in advance.

[Cole Parker]

It's called Free to a Good Home, at Nifty. And at BoNN, where it's a lot easier to find.

C

[The Pecman]

Here's the link:

http://library.gaycafe.com/nifty/gay/sf-fa...e-to-good-home/

It's a good idea, but the first few chapters are marred by a confusing back-and-forth point of view problem, where sometimes you experience the point of view of the robot, and sometimes it's the man who found him. Very confusing. The author gets better as it goes on.

[Cole Parker]

This same problem exists with The Lifeguard, another BoNN story. If the author needs to show both or multiple POVs, I think at the very least the person whose POV is being used in that section should be identified. Sometimes the reader can get quite a substantial way into a section of the story without knowing the POV has changed.

C

[Merkin]

On a smaller scale, but posing a larger problem for me, is reading dialogue without tag lines. Two person conversational dialogue is very common in fiction, and I often find myself scratching my head halfway down a page of it and then counting back to see if I can figure out who actually was the speaker of a given line when tag lines (attribution) is left off or rarely given. I know that many writers dislike the overuse of 'he said' but a good writer should be able to sense that his reader may go astray and lose understanding unless a tag line is inserted here and there.

James

[The Pecman]

On a smaller scale, but posing a larger problem for me, is reading dialogue without tag lines.

Yes, I agree completely. Back-and-forth dialog can be challenging, but I think the key is to make it as simple and direct for the reader as possible.

One trick I've seen before is for one of the characters to have a specific way of speaking: a southern drawl, maybe more curse words, a speech impediment... anything that makes it clear that this is not the other character. But the easiest way to do it is for the writer to just stop every so often and give the character's name, maybe accompanied by action.

Little touches like this make all the difference. To me, the moment you've created any confusion or uncertainty in the reader, you've lost them.

[Cole Parker]

It's certainly one of the many things a writer has to be aware of.

I recently drove to Oregon from LA. It's not a wonderful drive. Hours and hours of Interstate driving through quite a lot of very boring country. I took an audio book with me, one of Robert Parker's mysteries, this one featuring Sonny Randall, to aleviate the ennui.

It had pages and pages of dialog, much of it short sentences with charcterers speaking together. It went something like:

"Blah blah blah blah," she said.

"Blah blah blah blah," he said.

"Blah blah blah blah," she said.

"Blah blah blah blah," he said.

"Blah blah blah blah," she said.

Ad infinitum.

Now I suppose, reading it, your eyes would sort of skip over all those 'he saids' and 'she saids', but listening to them was quite distracting. I have to give the reader a great deal of credit. She didn't laugh once, and only slighty gave the impression that it was boring the snot out of her, having to repeat that each time.

Robert Parker is a skilled, intelligent writer. I'm not sure why he wrote it that way, but having read a lot of his books, I'm sure it was intentional and for some effect. So, that's one way to do it. Not one I'd use, but one way.

I think some writers are more aware of their readers than others. If you're really conscious of them, you tend to be more careful, to be concerned they might get lost, and take pains they won't. Pec is right, you can do it with characters' speech traits, or you could do it by using their personalities to define their speech and language. I like to add something to identify the speakers at least every third statement. It's easy enough to do. And should be.

C

[Cole Parker]

It's certainly one of the many things a writer has to be aware of.

I recently drove to Oregon from LA. It's not a wonderful drive. Hours and hours of Interstate driving through quite a lot of very boring country. I took an audio book with me, one of Robert Parker's mysteries, this one featuring Sonny Randall, to aleviate the ennui.

It had pages and pages of dialog, much of it short sentences with charcterers speaking together. It went something like:

"Blah blah blah blah," she said.

"Blah blah blah blah," he said.

"Blah blah blah blah," she said.

"Blah blah blah blah," he said.

"Blah blah blah blah," she said.

Ad infinitum.

Now I suppose, reading it, your eyes would sort of skip over all those 'he saids' and 'she saids', but listening to them was quite distracting. I have to give the reader a great deal of credit. She didn't laugh once, and only slighty gave the impression that it was boring the snot out of her, having to repeat that each time.

Robert Parker is a skilled, intelligent writer. I'm not sure why he wrote it that way, but having read a lot of his books, I'm sure it was intentional and for some effect. So, that's one way to do it. Not one I'd use, but one way.

I think some writers are more aware of their readers than others. If you're really conscious of them, you tend to be more careful, to be concerned they might get lost, and take pains they won't. Pec is right, you can do it with characters' speech traits, or you could do it by using their personalities to define their speech and language. I like to add something to identify the speakers at least every third statement. It's easy enough to do. And should be.

C

[DesDownunder]

I don't mind having to work to realise who is saying what, provided it is logical and there is a consistency to the dialogue exchange.

It's when the author has completely lost track himself of whom is speaking that I give up.

One of the most common errors is to have no extra line spacing the lines of each character.

Often too, I have found that when the tag line is inserted in between the lines of the characters without a break, this gets very messy and confusing.

I think one of the things that helps is for the dialogue to contain some degree of conflict and interaction; written as statement and response, where two characters are engaged in conversation. This natural conversation should easily disclose recognition of the speaker.

The classic dialogues of Plato give great insight into this structure, and set the stage, so to speak, for Shakespeare's plays where the character are mostly always involved in externalising their internal thoughts as soliloquies that interact with each other, thus overcoming their tendency to sound like a collection of monologues.

Many of Oscar Wilde's short stories are obviously evolved from the classic dialogue between two characters, and is used to make the reader feel related to a character without the use of first person.

I think too, that many authors do not bother to change character in their minds when writing the dialogue, and this leads to everyone sounding the same.

When the dialogue flows as natural interaction, tag lines can be largely omitted, but if there is little dramatic interrelationship then tag lines become necessary. Dramatic action is the clue here to the use of tag lines.

Once again we find daytime TV soap opera abounds with poorly written dialogue, predictable and setting the example for mediocrity.

[colinian]

Here are a few techniques I use to let the reader understand who's speaking in dialogue without using "he said" "she said" on every line.

I use introductory or closing phrases of sentences to clarify who's speaking; I make sure I don't over-use phrases like "Dennis smiled" "Jane smiled" "Carson looked at me" Uncle Phil looked at me" over and over and over again:

Carson looked puzzled. ?What??...

?Okay, let?s move you up to the porch were we can sit down, and I?ll check your arm.? Uncle Phil helped Carson get up...

I use a character's name in the dialogue (but sparingly):

?Carson, David said your arm hurts. Which arm??...

?Sorry, Dad!?

I use context to make it clear who's speaking:

?Okay if I sit here??

I open my eyes and look to my right. There?s a guy, looks a little younger than me, squatting there grinning at me. Damn, he?s cute. In fact, he?s totally fine.

?Sure. Free country, it's a state beach, and I?m friendly.?

He cocks his head to one side and looks at me. ?Hmmm... you look sort of familiar. You go to Cabrillo??

?Yeah. You??

?Yes. What grade??

?I?m a junior.?

?Oh... I?m a sophomore....?

?That a problem??

?Uh, no, not for me.?

?Not for me, either.?

He smiles, and it?s so bright that I swear it?s brighter than the sun.

?You got a blanket or towel??

?No. I forgot. Had to exit the domicile fast before I got caught.?

I move over and make room for him, and pat the spot on my towel next to me. He sits the same way I?m sitting, sort of sitting up, leaning against where the beach slopes up. We?re maybe a foot apart.

?Got caught? By whom??

?My mom. She?d have had a list of about a million things she?d want me to do today, so I had to plan my escape.?

There?s that smile again, and he giggles. Oh, my god, he actually giggles!

?Looks like you were successful.?

Laughter. His laughter. It?s like how I imagine chimes in a Tibetan monastery sound. Tinkling and bright, soft and inviting.

?Yeah. Well, until I get home. It?ll be like the Inquisition.? His voice changes to a higher pitch. ??Where have you been? Who have you been with? You left without permission! You didn't do your chores. You are SO grounded, Raymond!??

I bust up laughing. And now I know his name. Raymond.

?I?ll probably be grounded for the rest of the weekend. That?ll make escaping a lot tougher. But I?m resourceful.?

I make sure that I use techniques to clearly identify characters when there are more than two people in a section of dialogue. This is also where my urge to use "he said" "she said" needs to be suppressed:

After class Kyle introduced me to Jeffrey. ?Will, this idiot is Jeffrey Rector. He?s the class clown. Avoid him at all cost!? Both Kyle and Jeffrey laughed.

?Will, I apologize if you think I was teasing you because I wasn't. I?m always looking for puns, and this morning there wasn't much available material. And by the way, I?m not the class clown. No, certainly not! I am Jeffrey Rector, official WCI clown, accept no substitute!?

All three of us laughed. I liked Jeffrey, a lot. He was fun and funny. I decided that I wanted to be his friend, and Kyle?s friend too.

A boy walked up to us. "Are you Will Christmas?"

"Yeah." I wasn't sure what he wanted.

"I'm Chuck Summio. Mrs. Phipps told me you have TS. Do you?"

I looked at Chuck, he looked pretty normal, like me, and thinking that made me smile. "Yeah, I have TS. You know, you're the first person I've ever met who has TS besides me."

Chuck grinned. "Mrs. Phipps said you have first lunch. Maybe we can eat together?" He looked at Jeffrey and Kyle, who smiled and nodded.

"That'd be great."

"OK, I'll see you in the cafeteria. Gotta get to my Spanish class. See ya!"

"See ya!" Wow, another friend, on my first day, and a kid who has TS. Amazing! I was sure liking it here!

Kyle looked at us. ?OK, we've just about blown it guys! We have to get to geometry, now, or we?ll be late! Let?s go!?

As we headed down the hall Jeffrey said to me in a loud whisper, ?Kyle hates to be late. Geometry is just around the corner in room 212. It will take us 30 seconds if we crawl there on our hands and knees. I think he?s just practicing so he won?t be late for his own funeral!?

?Funny ha-ha, Jeffrey. And YOU will be late to YOUR own funeral.?

Anyone have other techniques that they've found useful?

Colin