[Drama Club by Tragic Rabbit]

[ LOL.. sorry about the pistol whipping remark... a weak attempt at humor. Your efforts are appreciated by all, wibby, including Joey... I am sure.

I agree Drama Club and its author are well worth our time and investment in it. Joey writes with a passion that is hard to find these days. I wish I had a dozen of him! :D ]

*******************

Dude's only sayin' that because I'll let him cyber with me for hours at night. God, he's so hot.

"Dude lay in the moonlight, glorying in his nakedness while TRabbit hastily shucked off his clothes and dove for it." Film at 11.

No, seriously, thanks to all of you for the advice and pats on the head. I need them. I'm not only new at this but I've got the all the self-esteem of John Bobbitt in a tearoom.

Kisses...

Tragic Rabbit

[Drama Club by Tragic Rabbit]

[

Hello' date=' Tragic Rabbit.

Oh boy, long reply here.

I've now read through all the chapters so far.

Sorry you're having computer troubles. You might try writing your replies in a text editor and then cutting and pasting into the forum.

I meant initial impressions, when I said Angel seemed campy or flaming at first. I also didn't mean it in the phony, negative sense (well, not entirely). It's clear even beginning in Chs. 1 and 2 that he isn't just being over the top or in your face, and as things develop, we see that he has reasons in his past that contribute to him being up front and (outwardly at least) unworried about how he presents himself. I guess that reflects how the public and even gays or questioning folks get worried about someone who fits the stereotype in some way. Yes, it also says something about what I'm comfortable with or used to or have issues with.

Angel is a sympathetic character. Compare him with Jem ("Princess Sparkles") in Ryan K.'s One Life, and you'll see right away that Angel is clearly not like the scarily out-there Jem. (BTW, I figure there's more to that character than we've seen so far.)

First impressions again on the sex scenes in Ch. 1 and 2. Very quickly, we're introduced to two or three hurried, teen hormone-filled scenes and a couple of dream sequences.

So as a reader, my first impression is to wonder if this is a quickie (j/o) or a farce, or quite what story reasons the author might have for starting that way. As things go along, it's clear this isn't a quickie or a farce, it's serious and honest. ]

********************** (this quote thing just isn't working out for me)

Well, it started off as just a sketch and was, yes, something of a j/o oriented farce. I planned (and still plan) on another story entirely. When readers said they liked this one, though, I kept at it and by Part 3, I'd become sort of attached to the storyline and characters in a way I could never have anticipated doing. I sometimes feel as if the characters really exist in some way and are doing things on the page when I'm not looking but that make sense in their lives/story. Today, I saw a boy who reminded me of Angel, a person I made up completely. I just can't express how much I'm enjoying this whole process.

However, its not my intention to litter the bandwidth so I want to do the best job I can with Drama Club. This WILL include reworking from the beginning but I'm loathe to do that until I've finished. At that point, I'll have what could be considered a first draft and then, if interest hasn't evaporated, can mold it into something a little better. By then, I should be a better writer, too, as in MY tiny opinion, I'm learning Part by Part. At least that's my thought, that the mistakes are lessening. Or maybe I'm just making new ones each chapter.

*********************************

[ BUT - From that we learn very quickly that Angel is not your typical straight-acting boy and that the guys and girls in drama are comfortable enough together that things happen from the excitement of the moment and ongoing friendships. We also learn immediately who he likes/loves/trusts.

However, most of the stories I read on Nifty had studly, muscled, straight-acting, athletic, rich men who were hung like race-horses so I wanted some characters of another kind, characters that seemed more realistic to ME.[/quote ]

Yup. I agree wholeheartedly on that. The stories I like tend to have recognizably true-to-life characters. That can mean just about any personality or body type for a character. -- I am not Mr. Macho, not a race-horse (sorry to disappoint!), just average. That pale, skinny, quiet brain in school? That was me, friendly but not a party animal.

I wasn't fishing about you or about Angel. I'm Anglo, but I *expect* diversity; I'd feel strange and incomplete without it. Drama kid, meet a language geek. :) If it's shown as a natural part of the characters, that makes sense. We are both just as likely to buy bread as tortillas. That's a lame example, but it's concrete. If people have a problem with that, then it's not *your* problem, they just don't (or won't) understand. To me, it's bad writing and worse ideology when it's pointed out endlessly just how (stereotypically) ethnic some guy is. ]

***************************

I think I may have expressed myself badly. I wasn't calling anyone a racist nor did I mean that comment to be in regard to myself. I only meant that people seem to read most about white people in the same way that people, of all colors, tend to buy white dolls for their children and that's only in part because white dolls (like white characters in films and fiction) are more common. Its the dominant culture, the dominant archtype, whatever, so that's what people identify with. I made Angel (Angelo de la Torres, but this isn't mentioned for some time in the story) Latino but I didn't want to draw attention to it. I wasn't saying any of you or any of the readers were excessively white or hostile towards non-whites, only that readers might choose not to finish stories with Latino main characters. I've already decided that wasn't accurate but its hard to tell from what I've read thus far online.

Speaking of what I'ver read in the six weeks since I discovered all this stuff (Nifty, etc), I wanted to say that, while almost all of it was forgettable at best, six or eight stories were the reason that I kept sifting through and reading and were ALSO the reason I decided to put finger to keyboard. One of those was, coincidentally, The Boyfriend so imagine how pleased I was to find it here AND a related story in the works (which I've now read and I could just kiss David all over but that's another tail). So if Drama Club gives you a headache or clogs up the drains at AwesomeDude, blame Keith (sorry, Keith!) and a few others.

**************************

[ 'Disagreeing' about high school sex? Not quite. It was my first impression from Chs. 1 and 2, because of how it works in introducing the story, how it's immediately there. Maybe it would be good to show how, for teens, it's so often incomplete, interrupted, not private, frustrating, or just plain not there or not all that they'd want - ]

**************************

I'm going to try to do that but am not sure it'll work out. Its not the main focus right now, though, but I do think it'd make the whole thing more realistic.

*******************************

[ - along with how it can be a long, steady relationship, a casual friendliness, a sudden surprise, or many other things, new and complex. Unrealistic? Heh, those hormones kick into overdrive for all of us in our teens. So spontaneous attractions or hard-ons, for no reason, or dreams, solo, the sudden need to go take care of it, but not always the opportunity at the time...yes, all of those. Also the hesitant, "I really like him. How can I work around to ask him? Is it right to do that? What if he says no?" That, too. Also finding out that someone wasn't interested before asking, or that maybe they were, or rejection, or being outed, or all of the kinds of cautious maybe's or yes's. -- See, it's how it comes across, degree or quality, not that it's there. ]

***********************

I'm confused. When did this all change?

***************************

[ I mean, I read these stories, right, so obviously I like what's there. Um, frankly, past history and personal experience and unresolved religious questions enter into it for me. When I first found *stories* online, not just a jumble of classy and classless pictures, wow. Then when I found that some of those stories had more than just Wham-Bam-Thank-You-Sam, but that they had people I could relate to, experiences so like mine...amazing. I needed that, big-time. There are blogs and boards? I can actually *talk* to people like me, safely? Thank God. -- It looks like you are finding that out now. ]

*******************

Finding people I can talk to about these gay romances/erotica or finding people I can talk to about being gay?

Mother always insisted there WERE no 'people like me'. I always hoped she meant something nice by that. :?

*********************************

[ Beginning with Ch. 3 and onward, it looks like you are learning quickly and hitting your stride. Interactions and conversations and inner thoughts take over, and the sex gets more balanced. I think you're on the right track. Compare a written story with a script. The words in the former have to take the place of the stage directions and all of the things that a stage production shows about the scene and cast. The written piece has room for lots of extras too, that a play doesn't have time to show; two different art forms, both tell a story.

:arrow: Suppose you had to write out a novelization of a short skit or one-act play. (Do they do that as a drama exercise?) Your task is to describe all the important parts of the scene, and include the dialogue as-is or add to it. Maybe that will help you figure it out. The storytelling varies with the type of impact you're going for.

Look at books you like to see how they're structured. Ack, lit. criticism, sorta takes the fun out of reading a fav. book, huh? Just keep it in the back of your mind as you read. I'm sort of assuming that a theatre major would have some of the same composition and lit. classes, so I figure you have some idea of it. I can see you like poetry. ]

********************************

I love poetry but less than prose. I didn't major in theatre because my high school theatre teacher always told us not to. And never, never to work in soap operas if we could help it. But mainly she told us to get real jobs.

*************************

[ I think you're stressing over pacing from what people are telling you, but I think you're figuring that out as you go. It makes me wonder if I missed your intent in 1 and 2, because after them, you seem to change pace.

OK, I see as the story goes along that Angel gets concern and flak for how he dresses and acts. You handle that really well. Yes, that and the other issues you cover, those are spot-on too. Good story material. So yes, you're covering that well. Been there, friends or myself. Not fun, but needs to be talked about. ]

**************************

I think Angel is becoming sort of the focal point for what a lot of characters in the story find objectionable in any gay person/teenager. He is what they are but writ large. Maybe that's why some readers will find him a slightly uncomfortable main character?

**********************************************

[ Where and when I went to high school (public school, outskirts of a big city, suburbs and otherwise, middle class and lower) Angel would've been sent to the office for dress code. Heck, you could go the office for hair over your collar or facial hair or an "inappropriate" (metal music) t-shirt. ]

*********************

I didn't say it was easy or encouraged in the dress code. What happens is this:

You do it and do it and do it (and get shat on and shat on again) until finally they quit writing you up, quit sending you out and quit farking with you. If not you, then the next kid. That's how it happens and still happens and will always happen, in my opinion. I never said it was 'allowed' in the sense that there was any kind of official approval or widespread support from the student body.

Its not fun to walk through campus and know all heads are turning to look. But if that's what you have to do to feel sane and be the person you need to be, then you do it, if you can work up a little courage, not much, maybe five minutes at time, here and there, and then you....just....do it. Same thing for kids who wear their hair longer/shorter/shaved or their skin tattooed. You think its easy to walk through a school with fourteen piercings in your face? Of course not, so why do kids do it?

Because they can't not. And slowly, things change, if not for that kid then for the next one.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

********************************

[ This was right as Madonna was coming onto the scene and right before Boy George. Trying to explain who Boy George to my parents was...different. ;) I'm not sure how they'd deal with all the variety you see now. But a teacher friend of mine commented that the boy in that Sprint(?) commercial, who's going out with a very mild club-kid look (tail, punk hair, earring, necklace) would not be tolerated by the kids where she teaches. -- Not how I was brought up, but it's silly for people to get uptight about it, isn't it? I got a big kick out of how adults reacted when one kid at church showed up with a bright red dye-job. The kids and younger adults got it; the older adults either got it or were mystified or disapproved.

Thanks for suggesting that I develop the teachers. I originally had the idea that this might be more a kid-space story but maybe it would be better the other way. I'm not sure but open to suggestion.

]

*********************

I started adding more depth to the dance teacher. He's dedicated to my closet. :p

**************************

[ I'd say the drama kids are the main characters, but she is an important supporting character. She's important to them, so demonstrate why. The role of the teachers or counselors in the story and how the young guys and girls think of them determines the size and importance of their roles.

--------

New Stuff:

Wow, as the story goes on, you've got a lot of good stuff, story-wise, coming in. Backstory that explains who Angel is and why; phobia with Ryan; ambiguity with Gene and Michael; poor Bobby's situation.

Gene: I sort of expected him to be a sympathetic straight who turned out to be a friend. Didn't expect him and Michael to have anything going. Not complaining, just surprised a little.

Bobby: Poor guy. I guess we'll see what happens in Ch. 6. Ugh, his parents and those pamphlets.

]

*****************************

Since I slowed the P-A-C-E :oops: , events aren't as far along at the end of Part Six as I'd expected. Bobby doesn't reappear in real time until Part Seven, for instance. Just thought I'd mention.

PLEASE let me know if any element of the story, any character or thread of the plot (or the whole plot) has a problem or is getting offbase. The one thing that seems really hard is keeping all of it in my head at one time and trying to see a coherent whole. Its like looking in a hand mirror to see if your suit looks good. Grrr.

I had some questions but they've gone out of my head.

Kisses...

Tragic Rabbit

[I LOVE KEVIN BRISTOL by Pete Jones]

If you're not sold on doing it as strictly a journal format, then have you thought of this possibility?

Why not intersperse frequent journal entries, newspaper clippings, and other items in with regular narrative and dialogue? Treat it as if it was a scrapbook someone is putting together or leafing through it, Charlie or Kevin or perhaps someone else. Actually, that could be a way to frame the story. It would also vary what's presented, to keep the reader's interest piqued.

I still really like the hook of doing the short story as a journal.

Maybe you'd want to try a sample chapter using each approach, to see what works best for you.

Pete

For what its worth, I agree almost exactly with the above post from 'blue' and the one somewhere above it by 'gpaulbishop' regarding a lengthened version. I definitely think it stands on its own well as a short story. I liked the ending very much and LOVED the first half to two thirds, the journal entries prior to the sex (not that I disliked the sex, but that's something else and involves typing one-handed) where Charles sounds SO much like a teenager. I laughed like crazy, I just can't tell you, and I usually loathe diary-style stories even by authors I otherwise enjoy.

I thought it was wonderfully done, the pacing up to their contact, and the humor was a fabulous bonus. Really made it work, in my opinion. The sex stuff, it was hot (ahem) but did seem a little of a variation for the actual journal itself. Maybe break up those paragraphs more, like the earlier entries? I loved the story, though, don't misunderstand.

I guess I should mention that I'm the other newbie around here so feel free to ignore what I say and push me in a puddle on the playground. On a nearby thread, these guys are helping me figure out how to organize the mess that vomits out of my keyboard. So my 'advice' lacks their credibility.

Just please don't 'pants' me on your way out.

Kisses...

Tragic Rabbit

**********

Posted later. GRRR, this forum keeps screwing me (and no, I'm not enjoying it). I'll try again.

What I meant by the above is this: When I read ILKB, I can HEAR Charlie taking in my ear. He's excited, he's afraid, he's bored, he's scared. I can hear him the whole way through with the exception of the first sex scene and something later, I forget what. One sex scene was him in my ear, though, and that's the one in the cellar at Christmas. Not only was that one HOT but I could feel his breath on my ear as he talked rapid-fire, breathing hard.

If you make a longer story, you could use the journal at the end instead of the beginning. Maybe in the middle, even. Possibly interspersed (as someone else said) with newspaper clipping or letters between characters. Notes in lockers? Anyway, something to keep the vivid first person thing going.

That's it for now.

Blue, I read what you wrote below. What does being 'out' about my sexuality have to do with offering lame advice on someone else's writing? Letting my demeanor do the talking doesn't seem to confer anything much in Real Time other than to significantly reduce the attentions of females. What it definitely doesn't do is help me critique and correct my OWN writing, so I need help. So here's the deal.

We can play doctor anytime you want if you will HELP me with structure, continuity and style on Drama Club. Quid pro quo. (Can I touch your quid with my quo? )

Kisses....

Tragic Rabbit

[Drama Club by Tragic Rabbit]

I'm Latino myself, if you're fishing, but I was trying not to emphasize the fact that Angel isn't white. I wasn't sure how non-white characters would be received.

Nobody would give a shit. If they do give a shit that he isn't white then they are probably beneath contempt. Not that you asked my opinion.

I just starting reading stories recently but have only seen one or two characters who weren't white, so I was concerned. I do plan on writing about non-white characters but I have a little more confidence now in what is acceptable (and read with interest as opposed to ignored). I'm not unfamiliar with the feeling that the world's interest is usually in inverse proportion to the darkness of a person's skin.

A gay-bashing is coming up in the next chapter, are you sure I'm not covering it?

If you ever put a spoiler in again I will be forced to hunt you down and kick your sorry ass halfway to China. Write it down :p

Sorry!

P.S.(Monday noon) I re-read through what I've done so far and I guess you're right, it is too much sex and utter shyte. *

Calm down. Take a deep breath. And keep going. If you're a writer, you can fix ANYTHING if you want. You have the skills. You just need to take your time and need a good proofreader who isn't afraid to give it back and say "This is utter crap -- please re-do it." My proofreaders gladly tell me they've seen better prose on a toilet wall and to fix something. And what you've done is good. We're not knocking you -- we're trying to make it better. It could be worse, we could utterly ignore you.

So where do I find a proofreader? I only just got up the nerve to tell one of my friends what I'm doing and asked for her opinions but she has yet to get back to me. I can't show pages like these to just anyone.

Thanks to all of you, again, for taking the time to comment and offer help. I do appreciate it, it's much better than being ignored.

Tragic Rabbit

P.S. How do you close off the quotes in replies like this one?

[Drama Club by Tragic Rabbit]

Hi, Tragic Rabbit,

I'm not sure, I might be your polar opposite. So please keep the snowshoes and the salt shaker handy (grain of salt, y'know). Also, I want to offer constructive thoughts. I hope I won't bother you; I sure don't mean to.

First, what I like so far. Later, I'll get to criticism. I'm only in Ch. 2, so bear with me.

Wow. Closet-boy here thinks Angel might be my polar opposite. Part of me can't imagine being so out or campy. Part of me is a little envious of the freedom and ease these kids express their sexuality. In high school, I actually defended two friends into drama and mime from some idiots. I do get that you may be using the drama club as a way to explain being a little (or a lot) flamboyant.

I like that they like acting and plays, and that you've shown it as a substitute family. It's true in life and in metaphor for being gay. About the play quotes, a formatting suggestion: try indenting them. Use the blockquote tag for the HTML, if you're doing it that way at all.

I love the sense of fun and humor. I know there'll be other things, but I like that you're (and they're) having fun.

Aside: Strange, I'd never considered "Bottom" in quite the context of a "bottom" before; I wouldn't put that pun past the Bard, either, he might well have meant that too.

I guess I've missed it. Is the main character's name pronounced as in Spanish ("Ahn-hel") or English? I don't know why I started with him as "Angel;" that doesn't make sense. I know people who pronounce their names the English way, though, too. If Angel wants to reply to that or anything else, he's welcome.

Now the criticism. Ouch!

(Sotto voce, V.O. offstage, from a Closet onstage.) Already they've all had more sex than I did in high school. (Grumbles.) OK, that's partly just me. But actually, it's a criticism of the story, too. Maybe your point is that they really are that casual about it. That's outside my experience; I wasn't a drama kid and I was uptight, confused, late-bloomer, whatever.

If that's your intent, fine; maybe it's a good point in itself. But otherwise, I'd agree with WBMS: slow down and build up their character relationships, so we as readers know that they aren't just doing it with whoever is, uh, handy. (Sorry 'bout the pun. I have a weakness for 'em.) To me, that's a difference between a piece meant to be performed and a piece to be read. What has to be compressed and can be shown on-stage with all five senses needs more time and has more time in written form. What I mean is that the reader, unless he's looking for a quickie, wants more depth, and it seems like you are aware of that from knowing about the arts. I figure it will develop as the story goes along. Then again, maybe closet-boy is just uncomfortable with it. You may have noticed the words, "I" and "me" seem to occur a lot here. Ahem.

Cigarettes. I hadn't noticed that, but I don't smoke. Neither here nor there to me how you handle that.

This may figure into parts of your story I haven't read yet. If Angel in particular went to school around here either now or especially back when I went, wearing makeup, he'd get sent to the principal's or nurse's and ordered to come back dressed according to dress code. That assumes he didn't first get stomped into a pulp by some of those idiots I mentioned earlier. I mention that only because it points out a story conflict and real-life conflict that you'd have to account for. I have no idea how dress code policy now deals with even the milder forms of decoration, although I've seen one or two kids, even boys, occasionally with dyed hair. But then, school uniforms are foreign to me too.

Hmm. Guess that's it. Hope I haven't torn it to shreds. I'll keep reading, honest. The play's the thing.

Oh, and as for sexual innuendo in Shakespeare, how about the opening scenes of R&J? I remember being surprised when my high school English teacher actually explained it to us! -- Sorry, don't have the play in front of me, so I'll paraphrase. Romeo and Mercutio and others are in a fight with the Jets or Sharks or Capulets...something like that. One of them comments, "My naked weapon stands unsheathed!" He was joking about his sword, but with those codpieces.... Oh my. (I liked the "DiCaprio" movie version...possibly mostly for Leo...but I liked it all around. Nice adaptation.)

Maybe you have other plays in later chapters. Surely they'll have other things than Shakespeare, such as South Pacific or Our Town or something else usual for high school. Or maybe Ms. Robi will do something unusual. -- By the way, you've said how much the kids love her. Let us get more insight into her character so we see why. If it helps, maybe think of this as presenting the backstory and research that actors develop about their characters. Here, you have the room to present that with words.

I'm known for long replies. Hope it was helpful and not just a rambling soliloquy. What? Who turned out the lights? What's that hook doing here? Wait a minute, I'll remember my line, I promise! (Lines and blocking and stage fright, but I've acted twice with the on-again, off-again group at church. Loved it, just need more practice to build confidence.)

You have my sympathies. I grew up in Texas too, just a very few years earlier, it seems.

(Edited to add:)

(Later:) OK, I read through Ch. 3. Guess I spoke too soon about conflict. Still hope for more char. development, but looks like you're getting to that. -- And don't let my natterings discourage you. Keep writing! -- Hmm. Maybe I shoulda hung out with the drama kids. Might've cured some of the shyness and denial from the kid who liked a few friends more than he could admit. What? Was that mic. on? Hehehe. Oops.

Okay, I wrote out long replies to this post twice and lost them to reboots so this may seem short and abrupt but that's the reason. I want to get it done and out before I have to reboot yet again.

Hi, Blue!

Angel doesn't seem campy to me, maybe we are indeed different. He's not the butchest stud in the bunch but hardly a flamer. If he's coming across in some way that makes him less a sympathetic character, that's bad. However, most of the stories I read on Nifty had studly, muscled, straight-acting, athletic, rich men who were hung like race-horses so I wanted some characters of another kind, characters that seemed more realistic to ME.

Shakespeare makes a number of jokes on the name 'Bottom' in MSND.

Angel can be pronounced either way but most younger Latinos go with the anglicized <s> pronunciation in mixed settings. I'm Latino myself, if you're fishing, but I was trying not to emphasize the fact that Angel isn't white. I wasn't sure how non-white characters would be received.

I'm not sure what to say about high school sex. I had sex in high school (and at the high school-almost always in the theatre department!) and so did a lot of my friends. Not by any means all, though, and there are characters in Drama Club who don't. Others have sex but with misgivings. Drama students I've known since my own graduation are also sexually active, not all, but many. My real life experience is that much high school sex doesn't end in actual completion of the act and maybe that should be reflected in the story. Its so difficult for a teen to even find a private place that Drama Club sex does have an element of wish-fulfillment. At least one sex scene in the story is close to an actual experiences of mine, though, so its not SO far off. In MY opinion. Are we 'disagreeing' because of what we each think of high school sex or because of how it works in the story? And what about the several dream-sex scenes?

On slowing down: how exactly? longer scenes? more scenes? See, I'm really new at this!

Boys wear makeup in high school. I wore makeup (sometimes) in high school. I had a whole Ziggy Stardust thing going during my senior year. I've known a lot of theatre students to wear makeup on a regular basis. Some private schools might not allow makeup but I've never been to or heard of a public school that didn't permit it. That does not mean that a guy wearing makeup doesn't get hassled, he does, and sometimes even by administration but its not generally a dress-code violation. This is my experience, someone else's may vary. Angel IS hassled in school for his presentation and even Gene (chapter four or five) tells him it's asking for trouble. So the idea that its not fully accepted is covered in the story. Does it need to be covered more? A gay-bashing is coming up in the next chapter, are you sure I'm not covering it? I'm asking--I don't know if I am or not. I'm flying blind.

Thanks for suggesting that I develop the teachers. I originally had the idea that this might be more a kid-space story but maybe it would be better the other way. I'm not sure but open to suggestion.

Northside will do other productions and at least one will be part of the story, possibly Camelot but I'm still thinking of an appropriate play to end Drama Club with as a tie in to the events that end the story.

Here are some things I'm going crazy trying to figure out:

1) is the dialogue believable or not? if not, why not?

2) are the characters likable? if so, which and how? if not, why?

3) are the scenes interspersed in a way that is effective? if not, why?

4) am i getting any kind of thread going that is coherent? if not, how can i improve?

5) i guess the above comments let me know that my worries about pacing or character development were well founded and that i've farked up...any details on how to fix this are appreciated. talk in small words.

6) how are the sex scenes (AS sex scenes)? how are they are part of the story?

7) what, if anything, am i doing right?

8) what are the worst parts of my prose--i need a list to tack up by my monitor of what NOT to do.

Please read all the chapters if you can and let me know if I'm getting any better and if its making any sense yet.

I'll think of more later but that's all that I can dredge up right now. I'm ticked at the computer and worried that it'll crash on me again so I'm posting this fast.

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!

Hugs and Kisses.

Tragic Rabbit

P.S.(Monday noon) I re-read through what I've done so far and I guess you're right, it is too much sex and utter shyte. I'm a tad depressed now and wondering what I'm doing. What sort of things are liked online? Can I fix this or should I just drop it and start something else? *sigh*

[Drama Club by Tragic Rabbit]

I've been reading the story. It's good. I do have some helpful suggestions.

SLOW DOWN. Damn. No need to rush. A little more detail please. You have all those other characters. How about a bit about them -- comments on their looks and personalities. They're in a car or restaurant or classroom? Tell us about it. It'll make the story seemed less rushed and more substantial without making your work much more difficult.

Fixing that one detail will cure your story of the two of the three complaints I have.

The other is: Why is everyone in your story always having a cigarette? I think your characters have smoked several packs so far. It's TOO noticeable. Ideally nobody would ever smoke (kids are reading this) but I know people DO smoke. But sometimes they come up for air.

Story idea: have him try and quit. That could be a long and funny (albeit painful) story arc.

Best,

WBMS

Dear WBMS:

Thanks so much for posting, I really need some help and will be using a lot of the suggestions I get here. This is my first story in a long, long time and my first erotic or teen story ever. I've never written dialogue before or other things that I'm having to figure out right now. I hope that the five chapters show at least some progress as I learn.

I discovered Nifty about six weeks ago and have been reading stories non-stop, discovering some I liked and a lot that I didn't. I had no idea there were places online to write as a amateur, somehow I missed out on this until now. Two weeks ago, I decided to try doing it, too. I typed out the first chapter of a little thing on a high school drama club, fully intending to actually make another idea into my first story. Nifty put this one out and I got a lot of really nice commentary from readers and went ahead with Drama Club. It's kind of blowing my mind how much fun I'm having.

On that note, huge hugs and thanks to the Dudester for bringing me over here where I can get some real feedback. Comments from readers are great but usually not all that helpful. One interesting thing I've noticed is that some of these guys seem to see me AS Angel, or at least, as a sexy teen queen and appear to be disappointed when they find I'm not. I may start being a lot more vague about who Tragic Rabbit really is!

All that said, I know I suck at it but I really, truly believe that I can get a lot better with some help. By the third chapter, I had a handle on the IDEA of chapters and now, with chapter five, I have the thing more or less plotted out. I still feel VERY unsure of a lot of things and would really appreciate any and all commentary. I promise not to cry in public, either, if it hurts my feelings. Not much, anyway.

To answer your two questions/comments:

I can see that its going fast. I'm unsure what is too much detail and what is not enough. I've read, on Nifty, a lot of stories with endless personal detail (or glacially moving plots) that sort of went over the top and maybe I was trying to avoid that. I'm also NEW to this whole thing in general: fiction writing, erotica and online chapter writing.

To fix the speed thing, would you suggest longer scenes OR more scenes or what, exactly?

I'm sure you're right about the pacing, if that's the word you mean, and I plan on going back over the first chapters later on to rework them. For now, I'm learning. Let me know what you think after you've finished chapter five--did I improve at all? I'm trying to, really.

They (actually its mainly Gene and Angel) smoke a lot for two reasons: I am chain-smoking as I write Drama Club. <G> More importantly, they smoke because its a highly social activity and allows characters to drop defenses and talk together at odd moments. It also underscores other addictive behaviors. Possibly some sublimated oral fixation, too. <wink>

I love the idea of someone trying to quit. I'm going to add that with either Gene or Angel, perhaps both. Thanks!

If there is anything that you like, that I'm doing right specifically, it would help me to know what it was so I don't stop doing it. I'm completely new to this and have no idea where I'm hitting and where I'm missing unless someone tells me.

I appreciate your time in replying and really look forward to anything else you might have as you read more. I do need help and I know it. I want to get better fast and finish the Drama Club. I need a finished project of some kind in my life right now but will probably find myself addicted to this kind of thing. It's really more fun than I could have ever imagined.

Peace.

The Tragic Rabbit