Prosecutors Call Student's Shooting A Hate Crime

[Trab]

I think you missed my point. We started them off, and now they control us. There isn't one government in the whole world which controls even a fraction as much as many corporations. Admittedly, some are more powerful than others, and some are still operating with a smidgeon of conscience, but you are fooling yourself if you think governments have control.

[Guest Fritz]

Trab, we have a fundamental disagreement on how things work. Yes, it frequently appears that corporations control many things, but appears is the key word. They appear to do so because we allow them to do so. We elect people who take bribes in the form of campaign donations because we don't seem to care, and the elected then pay off those bribes with favorable laws and sweetheart contract deals. However, don't underestimate the power of the people to change things if and when we decide we have had enough. Even governments have not been able to withstand the power of the people and I point to many revolutions throughout history as proof of that. Kings did not give up their absolute power out of the goodness of their hearts, but because their people demanded it. When we, as a people, demand better government we will have it and nothing corporations can do will stop that. As long as we pay little attention and continue to elect dishonest people to office we will have the kind of government we deserve and corporations are merely a reflection of our own failings.

[Trab]

Although I am reluctant to enter into a long term discussion on this, recognizing, as you have, that we see things in a fundamentally different way, I feel compelled to add a couple of final remarks. IF corporations were national in scope, your point about having some control over them would be valid. The catch is, they are now international in scope and if any one country, or even group of countries, attempts to control them, they will just regroup elsewhere. A good example is the actions of MS in Europe, in which they deliberately flouted the law of all the member countries, and ended up getting a huge fine rather than complying with the desires of the whole continent. And I'm willing to guess that they won't have changed their tactics one iota. The resources to fight the good fight can be pulled from everywhere around the globe. I don't even want to think about how quickly the western world could be brought to its knees by simply stopping oil production. Just look at what is happening with simple curtailment.

Sadly, we are WAY off topic now, and I will no longer continue this hijack, and I apologize for it going this far.

[Tragic Rabbit]

In the terms of Star Trek we allowing our own existence and future to be violated by failing to apply the prime directive of non-interference to ourselves. The Borg is threat not because it seeks to absorb us, but because it is a warning we seem to be ignoring.

Des, you didn't just use Star Trek Next Gen as philosophical arguement.

Everyone knows you can only use Star Trek TOS for that...

TR

[DesDownunder]

Des, you didn't just use Star Trek Next Gen as philosophical arguement.

Everyone knows you can only use Star Trek TOS for that...

TR

Yes I suppose I did, Ohhh the shame of it all. How will I ever live it down?

(It works though doesn't it?)

[Tragic Rabbit]

(It works though doesn't it?)

No.

[DesDownunder]

No.

Not even a little bit?

[Tragic Rabbit]

Not even a little bit?

No, and if you keep this up, I'll report you to Gene Roddenberry's ghost.

TR

P.S. They totally screwed Gene over in the making of STTNG, as you know, plus all the movies after the first one. Ah, Gene, we hardly knew ye...

[The Pecman]

We're getting away from the original points about the murder. I'd like to hear what the killer says. The main question I'd always want to ask the person pulling the trigger is, "why did you think this would solve your problem? What makes you think you could get away with this? Why do you think the kid you shot deserved to die?"

We'll probably never get answers to these questions, but these are some of the things that keep me awake at night.

Also, an aside to TR: Gene Roddenberry was a very creative man, but not a nice human being. I have several close friends who knew him well, and he was a man filled with flaws and contradictions. Read Joel Engel's Gene Roddenberry: The Myth and the Man Behind Star Trek, which just barely touches the surface of what went on with this complex man. I know several stories they couldn't prove in the book, and let's just say that Gene was a guy who often didn't share credit easily, and could be very mean and vindictive. I loved a lot of what he did with Star Trek, but Roddenberry had terrible, terrible flaws as a person.

[Tragic Rabbit]

Yes, and Adolf Hitler was a smart, often charming, vegetarian non-drinker who loved kids and dogs...but does that make him 'better' than Roddenberry?

hijack the world...

[The Pecman]

Yes, and Adolf Hitler was a smart, often charming, vegetarian non-drinker who loved kids and dogs...but does that make him 'better' than Roddenberry?

You lost me. I'm not comparing Roddenberry to anybody -- I'm just saying he wasn't a great person.

He created a great show, but had terrible flaws as a human being, that's all. I'm not mentioning Hitler, Mussolini, Bin Laden, Jesus, or Mohammad, either.

Not that it matters, but Roddenberry's son, Gene Jr., is gay and is doing OK in LA. I don't think he's involved in TV, but he and his mother, Majel, have a good life. (I've met Majel several times, and she was always nice to me, so my criticism of her husband doesn't extend to her.)

Read the Wikipedia article on Roddenberry for more; everything it says is very close to what I know as well.

[Tragic Rabbit]

You lost me. I'm not comparing Roddenberry to anybody -- I'm just saying he wasn't a great person.

He created a great show, but had terrible flaws as a human being, that's all. I'm not mentioning Hitler, Mussolini, Bin Laden, Jesus, or Mohammad, either.

Twas indeed my own and only point, Dear Pec, that Roddenberry as person wasn't relevant to Roddenberry as Great White Bird of Trekdom, whose sacred creations were being trifled with.

Ba da boom

TR