Florida's gay adoption ban ruled unconstitutional

[E.J.]

"It is clear that sexual orientation is not a predictor of a person's ability to parent," the judge wrote. "A child in need of love, safety and stability does not first consider the sexual orientation of his parent. The exclusion causes some children to be deprived of a permanent placement with a family that is best suited to their needs."

Full story HERE

[Trab]

From the article, by someone against same sex parents:

Children do better with a mother and a father.

Talk about creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. First you ban same sex marriage, then you claim that same sex unions aren't stable. Then you state that a mother and father is best for the children. Children do best with parents, two is better than one. If a 'mother and father' is really a requirement for good parenting, then children should be removed from the custody of all single parents. What crap this all is. They won't even come out and admit their own prejudice, but just spout nonsense instead.

[DesDownunder]

From the article, by someone against same sex parents:

Talk about creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. First you ban same sex marriage, then you claim that same sex unions aren't stable. Then you state that a mother and father is best for the children. Children do best with parents, two is better than one. If a 'mother and father' is really a requirement for good parenting, then children should be removed from the custody of all single parents. What crap this all is. They won't even come out and admit their own prejudice, but just spout nonsense instead.

Traditional mother/father families, single parents, adoptive parents, orphanages, all, produce kids whose sexual orientation can be anything from asexual, though to, "if it moves, do it."

I think we should also see a wider implication of these restrictive laws (which need to be overturned.)

What we are witnessing is an attempt to overthrow basic individual human rights, for the sake of social conditioning, dressed up as justice serving vengeance in the name of beliefs, imposed on individuals in the society, and thus the society itself.

Therein is the true self-fulfilling prophecy. Eradicate the rights of the individual, to think, to exercise his right to pursue liberty, life and freedom, and you end up with another dark age of dogma supplanting intelligence and compassion.

That alone means the pursuit of happiness then becomes someone else's belief of what constitutes happiness, and that may not necessarily be yours or mine.

The judge was quite justified to rule against the ban on the basis of the constitution, (in my opinion.)

[captainrick]

This is what I've been talking about for so long. My own state of Mississippi has laws specifically aimed at preventing gays from adopting, but they also single out ANY unmarried persons as "unsuitable" to adopt or even be foster parents.....

Someone please explain the twisted logic of the idea that someone who desperately wants to care for an unwanted or parentless child is incapable of providing that child with the necessary nurturing and care simply because they don't have a traditional male-female marriage.

I still say... before the gay community goes to war over the right of traditional marriage, basic human and civil rights protections of non-discrimination on the basis of sexual preference must first be firmly established and entrenched in the law.

But what do I know... I only have a juris doctorate and 23 years of law practice upon which to base my opinion.

[Trab]

You mean you're a LAWYER? So much for paying any attention to anything YOU have to say.

Now, before everyone goes off on me (in the worst possible way) I'M BLOODY WELL JOKING, OKAY?

[Richard Norway]

I think Rick is spot on here. I've been preaching the same thing for years that we need basic human rights Before we try to get marrage...and I'm not a minister or priest.

Rick, you say anything you want to in this tread!

But open your mouth on any other thread and the 'lawyer' jokes will come out of the woodwork.

<ducks>

<runs away>

I'M KIDDING TOO!

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Deleted

[Guest Fritz]

Trab wrote, "They won't even come out and admit their own prejudice, but just spout nonsense instead." While I agree with that assessment, most of those people truly do not believe they are prejudiced so it is impossible for them to admit to it.

We are all a product of our beliefs and sometimes those beliefs make it impossible for us to see ourselves as others see us. In this case there have been a number of studies that have shown that it is best for a child to be raised in a traditional home, i.e., with a mother and a father. Those people fasten on that information and think they have the child's best interest at heart when they pass laws against or object to a gay person adopting. In a perfect world they would be right, but the world is far from perfect and there are not enough traditional homes willing to adopt all the children eligible. The problem arises when their idea of a perfect world clashes with the real world. While I'm willing to concede that a traditional family is the ideal, I'm also willing to accept that many times the ideal cannot be achieved and we have to accept that fact and make allowences for it. To me, it is much better to have a single person, gay or straight, adopt a child and love and nurture it than it is to have that child moved from home to home or placed in a group home without the love it needs. While that might not be the perfect solution, it is far better than the alternative.

And while to us it may seem as though they are spouting nonesense, to them it is not. They truly believe what they are saying. They are so hung up on one thing that, as the saying goes, they cannot see the forest for the trees. Their minds are made up and they are unwilling to even consider that they might be wrong or that the ideal is not achiveable. Hence they don't recognize their prejudices and are affronted that anyone would even suggest that they are prejudiced in any way. Their beliefs are so strong that they are unable to recognize that the consequences of those beliefs may produce poor answers.

Sadly, most of us also harbor some of that same mind set. It manifests itself in many topics such as religion, race, sexuality, politics, abortion, and the like. To give an example, anyone who still believes that Pres. Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction is acting in much the same way. There have been two reports from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence which concluded that he did not lie and anyone who is unwilling to admit that is acting in the same way those who oppose gay adoption are. Understand that admitting that Pres. Bush did not lie does not mean you have to like or agree with his decisions and policies, only that you are willing to accept facts. If those who oppose gay adoption were willing to accept facts, the problem would be solved because they would see that while not ideal, gay adoption is a far better answer than opposing it and there are many studies which suport that conclusion.

I agree with Captain Rick about equal rights, but would go even further. It is not just equal rights that the gay community needs, but also respect. Both sides need to respect the other and realize that people of opposing views are not necessarly evil. I have many friends who hold views that I don't agree with, but that does not make them evil and I still respect them just as they do me. If both sides of any disagreement would accord the other side respect and then truly listen, most problems could be solved and the world would be a better place.

[Bruin Fisher]

'Children do better with a mother and a father', eh? Better than what?

Better than a life in a series of foster homes? Or better than a life with a biological parent who doesn't want them, or can't feed them, or abuses them? Surely a parent who actually wants them would be better than either of the realistic alternatives? There aren't enough adoptive parents for the children who need homes.

The experts can argue for ages about whether a child does better with two parents of different sexes than a child with one parent, or with two parents of the same sex, but surely a child in any of these households does enormously better than the child who doesn't get adopted... Why not give the poor kids a home?! It's what they need!