Just when you thought it was safe to go to church

[DesDownunder]

I am not impressed by this man who preaches hate.

Click on the audio controls and you will here the voice of the man who makes the Phelps family seem mild.

Listen to the tirade against Gays and then Obama.

More here, read the comments.

[Trab]

Why would I want to subject myself to that?

[DesDownunder]

Why would I want to subject myself to that?

Indeed.

Perhaps you want to know what not to listen to?

[Trab]

Isn't that somewhat like the "Can you please tell me what stop to get off the bus, for Henry Street?" "Sure, just watch me, and get off the stop before I do."

[TracyMN]

Thinking Trab was probably right, and that I wouldn't want to "subject myself to that", I still thought i'd "subject" myself to the comments. Another wise choice.

They sound more like those right wing Mullah's we all dislike so much. Can you imagine writing some of the violent content of the Bible today without having a string of charges levied against you? They would include incitement to perpetrate hate crimes to say the least...

It hails from the Middle East...

Once again I find myself thinking, "why didn't I think of that?" It seems so obvious, yet, I know I wouldn't.

I read something the other day that would certainly could be classified as incitement. It was a preacher who said that all homosexuals were preditors and that we should seek them out like they did in the bilbe and deal with them aaccordingly. He was being interviewed, and said that he would feel no responsiblity if one of his followers killed anyone, as it was not his word but the word of god.

The laws against hate crimes are only progress if we are willing to enforce them, and your point here Brit, illustrates well our failure on this one.

And I can think of a number of places in the US where the second quote and it's implication might just get you shot.

In a country with a separation of church and state, there does seem to be a larger tolerance for things under the banner of religion that does not extend to the population at large. Why is that, I wonder? The current interest in where non-profits spend their money, or more specifically, how much is spent in the political arena, takes on a larger meaning for me in the face of this seemingly simple point. Thanks Brit.

That's why I read, to find connections to things that I would not by ny own devices. Fiction serves me well here as often as "news", and I rarely come away empty handed.

Tracy

[Cole Parker]

These "people", religious fanatics, who take selective writings from a most violent book that was written a few thousand years ago are, to be quite frank, the one's who "should be taken out and sorted out". They are mental, have a slate loose, are filled with hate, yet preach what they purport to be God's word.

How can these people be true Christians?

I think the answer to that is quite simple. We don't define a person as much by what he says as by what he does. He can proclaim his Christianity to the high heavens for all to hear, but if what he does is preach intolerance and hatred, he is indeed not a Christian.

C

[blue]

I think the answer to that is quite simple. We don't define a person as much by what he says as by what he does. He can proclaim his Christianity to the high heavens for all to hear, but if what he does is preach intolerance and hatred, he is indeed not a Christian.

C

That's right.

Being Christian (or Jewish) does not mean someone automatically believes being gay or lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, is wrong. Thinking within Christian and Jewish faiths is changing, as people know more, including as more is available to improve translations and as people think more on interpretations of scriptures and traditions/customs.

Some people accept being gay or bi (etc.) at face value. They don't see a conflict to begin with, between that and their faith.

Other people seek to answer the questions they have about being gay or bi (etc.) in relation to their faith/beliefs...usually in how they were raised to believe or their faith as they grew up understanding it. Some look for answers and conclude that the answers are bigger and more inclusive and accepting than they had thought.

Yes, some people conclude otherwise.

Yes, some people never look for the answers to begin with.

But please, some of us are gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender AND Christian or Jewish or various other faiths. Please don't lump us all in as hating gay people.

Some of us are people who have struggled to understand ourselves and our friends and family and have struggled to sort through our beliefs, to get to acceptance and inclusion and understanding. -- Yes, I would have much rather been like a few friends who simply always knew that it was OK for them and their loved ones to be gay/bi. I have them and other friends to thank for helping me to understand.

Being Christian or Jewish or some particular religious faith does not automatically mean a person is not gay-friendly. That would alienate and ignore plenty of friendly, loving, helpful people, and why do that?