blue

Did someone try to YIM me last night? I didn't immediately recognize the sender's screen name, then I realized (duh) they wouldn't know I'm "blue" from my YIM name, so they're probably OK. But, d'oh, I deleted the notice. Sometimes I'm such a dork. So if you tried to YIM me while I was offline, I'm sorry I didn't reply. My brain was also apparently offline. :-/

Absolutely. I mean, you don't want your degree to degrade after graduation. :D Little word-play there. Just what does one wish a new writer with a degree? -- Many happy carriage-returns! (That, and a paying job!) -- Cool degree, Bester.

Well, I hope our answers helped "some guy" some. -- Hey, some guy, did that help, or are you still confused? -- Take care, bud; whatever the answer is for you, you'll figure it out sooner or later. You're welcome to ask more. Dewey, aj, aussie, rustic, etc. -- Your answers helped me some too.

All that naughty nautical knot-tying has to be good for something.... Oh, sorry, had to riff on the tying up in knots thing. Also, the little rhyme in your sig, Gabe, did you write that? Dark humor, but I really liked it. Couldn't use it with some people, but others might get the point. -- And you made a good point with it. ----- Hmm. I think I agree with UTH's (Hoodster's) comments, too. The narrator's *so* cynical it's hard to know how to take him or what he really thinks or feels. Oh, and I'm sure there are other possibilities for Jacob's disposition. I didn't suggest that he (the son) was also playing the narrator, because that just seemed like too many playahs, unless, again, you wanted to go for farce, and I don't think that's what your intent with this piece is. Oh, and did I miss something when I read it? I don't remember if the narrator had a name. Dummy me. -- So maybe I'm horribly inobservant or have a lousy memory (or probably both). :p I hate you more! :roll: j/k

Perhaps he doesn't need a flashlight when he gets up at night to go? :grin: Might be an "enlightening" experience if it glows in the dark.... :: ~Blue ducks the tomatoes :: Don't stress, Rabbit. It might take 'em a couple of weeks to get to your story. Then you've gotta allow 'em some time to quit laughing at the spoofs. You have a talent for zaniness and some sharp satire between the jokes. ...And I hadn't thought of the abbreviation, "TWOT." Oh my.

AJ said something about the "studly, straight-acting" versus the "effeminate" characters, and how such people are thought of or treated in real life. Specifically, with Jem in One Life, I think that was Ryan's point. He drew Jem as a very out-there character with numerous problems, including self-esteem issues and acting out for attention, I think, specifically to turn the character around to get the audience's sympathy for the character later, and show how Tyler and Jaylin had to change their opinions and assumptions about Jem. -- I take the point raised that it was "rehabilitating" the character, though. OK, I'd better preface this. First, I know very, very little about being out among other gays. But I know what I've experienced, how people react or reacted to me or to friends. Second, I've raised so many comments and newbie questions, that I think I've outright offended one friend, for which I'm sorry. I genuinely did not intend to. Sometimes these keyboards just don't get the truth across the way we'd like, you know? Well, at the risk of further shooting off my mouth, let me say this. I think the way that non-straight-acting gays are portrayed or treated, in stories or in real life, even in the gay community, is a reflection of our collective insecurities. None of us like being treated as stereotypes, or hearing terrible, stupid things said about gay people. Nobody likes all that garbage, whether it's the obvious hate or whether it's the subtle hints. So that shows up even among ourselves and in the fiction we write. It gets internalized, even when we don't want it to be. Um, what I am *trying* to say, is that we are so busy trying to disprove the stereotypes that straight people have, and so busy trying to avoid those bad memories, that we forget that there's a whole range of people out there, everyone from very "butch" guys (I hate labels, but they're all I've got at the moment) to very "fem" guys, and there is *everything* in between. I'm not obvious, I don't think, but every once in a while, I notice myself or catch myself trying to "act straight." It's silly. Years ago, I made peace with the fact that I'm never going to fit the image I have of what a straight guy sounds like, moves like, whatever. And that statement alone is evidently enough to worry some people, as too messed up or too butch or too fem. I am just a regular guy, on the shy side, actually, with holdover issues from being stuck in the closet.

Just wanted to say, I got a big kick out of "The Worst of These." Alternate universe, alright! Queer City has potential. I've seen some discussions that point out parallels or allegory between the X-Men movies and comics and how the majority culture often views or treats people who are GLBT, often without realizing it. So that fuels my viewpoint on Queer City. (I started to say, "informs my opinion on Queer City," but that sounded too stuffy and textbook-y and made me remember one prof who went over a single short paragraph for one entire 1 1/2 hour lecture. Also, I'm not sure I'm "informed" on much of anything, lately. Eh, c'est la vie.)

I guess it's long enough for me to comment some more. I think this was Ryan flexing his writing muscles, stretching out... oh, sorry, better stop with that metaphor now. And really, since I'll presume Ryan's going to read this, I'll address him in 2nd person. Ryan, I think you were trying out some new stuff as an experiment, to grow as a writer. You managed a lot in a limited space, and it's clear you've got the stuff. I agree, though, that it seemed a little forced, and looking back, yes, I can see you'd planned it all. The only problem is that readers are feeling a bit forced or short-changed. (I ~think~ that's separate from the use of violence or lack of a happy, tidey ending. I think.) MJC and AJ suggested a little more foreshadowing, or some more transition, or that Jaylin might pull through somehow. Well, while I admit I wish Jaylin had survived (I'm romantic enough for that) I also know that such things do happen in life. -- I hated that they killed Spock in Trek 2: TWOK, but I felt they did it well. But I did *not* like that they brought him back, at all. To me, it was cheating the audience. -- I say that only to say that, sometimes, saying that, "oh, sorry, it was only a little boo-boo, he's all better now, despite that long hospital stay" is not valid in fiction. I fully understand wanting an escape and entertainment and wish-fulfillment in fiction. I often do too. But I also feel that a serious subject deserves serious attention. Having said that, I think What Dreams May Come was a great film, but I'm not sure I could've sat through it soon after my dad passed away; very depressing in places, before it gets better. (I finally watched it on DVD a while back.) I particularly liked the scene where his wife's imagination is "painting the sky and landscape." Back on-topic. I also wanted a little more closure in Part 6 and the Epilogue. It left me unsure if Tyler is really on the road to full recovery. It's a bit troubling that he hadn't reached the stage he could say, "Yes, that was my husband," or "Yes, we were very happy together," in the *past* tense, instead of the present tense. It's interesting that he suddenly has a little son, but we don't get any explanation how or why that happened. At least, though, it's clear that Tyler's a good father and has a great son who's good for Tyler. I think this is just a case of trying to fit too much into too little space, and being new at it. I think you did a terrific job, Ryan. I hope we'll get to see a lot more of your work, and it'd be cool to pick up a book by you someday in the bookstore. (Heh, should be interesting the first time I buy a gay novel in person. Heh, first for everything, I s'pose! I think now I'm kinda lookin' forward to it!) BTW, The Calling, both their CDs, and Simple Plan's "Perfect" are exceedingly cool.

"Absent-mindedly drawing symbols in the dirt." Everyone count your toes! Did I miss something, or is the new servant still running 'round butt-nekkid? Not necessarily objecting, mind you, if the weather's warm enough. (If not, brrrr!) So, hmm, faintly Esperanto or Rumanian lingo. I get the feeling these are two connected realities, or a dream/coma-induced state. There's a definite feeling of the genre conventions, here. -- Keep up the good work, and I'd like to see something a little unconventional too. Be daring, have some fun with these guys! Heh, I still remember the old cover to Andre Norton's "Iron Cage." Made a big impression to me as a 12 or 13 year old. (The novel's good too, also made a big impression.) Hmm. I really like the boy on the cover and in the story. I think I know why, too. Hmm. Not exactly what I can talk about at lunch at school, or at dinner at home. Now why does this seem so...nice...when it's not supposed to be nice at all...and this was a Christmas present, too.... Great present, but what the heck do I make of these feelings?

Glad you're back, Paul. Should be interesting to see what you've got in mind. I'm really glad things are looking up for Mitch. Here's a big hug for ya, Mitch. Keep it as a spare, you know for when you really need it. Still sendin' good thoughts in your direction.

I don't see why it should be a problem to take down an old copy and repost a newly corrected copy. I know there are housekeeping and reformatting issues to put things on a site. Still, that is just part of running a site. Ultimately, it's the story's *author* who has the say on what draft of his/her story is the correct one. Just IMHO. Getting down from my soapbox, I'd say that, TR, you have the perfect right to tell the Nifty archivist that you wish to withdraw your stories from that site. It may not get the stories out to as many readers as you'd like as quickly, but hey, google is wonderful, right? :) Well, it seems like a rabbit's e-mails would bounce anyway, right? I'll look at something you sent to make suggestions on formatting and such. You are doing much better than you think, with your writing. How you have time to do anything else, I have no idea. I suspect TR is actually a vast Borg algorithm inhabiting (inrabbiting?) a regeneration alcove somewhere. ::Brushes away those rabbit-eared nanoprobes:: A Borg rabbit, now there's a scary idea! Although the DP Fusion explains a lot. (Ooh, a dangling clause, how's it danglin' bud?) Your friend with the sci-fi stuff? It has to be s:c:a:n:n:e:d ? No disk copies? How...how...how very retro! -- Yes, I can imagine it. I hope it's on individual pages, scanning even a few pages of a bound book is a pain...not that I've ever done that, you understand. :roll:

Hi, Dewey, glad you posted. Pay no attention to the sharp objects. :) If writers want to concentrate on a specific issue, in which physical appearance or perhaps wealth or popularity have little relevance, well, that leads me to wonder why they'd need to make the characters "perfect" in those other aspects. Couldn't they just as easily be average, like everyone else? Wouldn't that make them easier to relate to and more realistic? Personally, I think it's the wish-fulfillment aspect, that newbie writers think readers want some happy, problem-free world to escape the real one. I also think that's just a facet of being a newbie writer. Most haven't figured out the basics of storytelling yet. Just IMHO. I like a few flaws or quirks in the characters in fiction, mainstream or gay genres. If everything and everyone in the story are too perfect, I bail, it just doesn't do anything for me. Also, if it's just a wham-bam-thank-you-Sam story, no character or plot, I'm also going to bail. It needs those or, again, it doesn't do anything for me. I read more for the relationships than the hot sex, too. If there's sex, it needs to be well written, or it's just paint by numbers, and that's for sure not going to do anything for me. I think I only partially answered the question you maybe had in mind. ----- Oh, and reading back over the thread, I'd say that the teens Paul said were asking about it, should read some of the stories on Dude's site, on DeweyWriter's site and forum, or on a few other sites. Look in the links for other sites. There *are* some very good stories out there. Yes, Nifty is there and available, but too much there tends to be too poorly done. There are good stories there, moreso in the high school section, but you have to hunt for them. Oh, and no, Dude and Dewey didn't pay me to say that. The check bounced. Dang rubber checks and invisible ink.... ;)

~Blue scratches his head...no, not that head, doofus :o I've tried to figure out what to say, but I'm not sure what to make of the story, Gabe. It has some irony and satire. After all, just who's playin' whom? (I really tried to leave off the -m, I did, honest.) It has some clever humor. (I think I actually liked the line about the bedsprings and lifeguard more than the previous joke.) I even wonder if the scoutmaster's son is playing the narrator, although that's not suggested. But yeah, it's missing something, isn't it? I'm not sure what. Your story concentrates on the sly scout and his cynical outlook on everything, especially the scoutmaster. You also concentrate on the lushy scoutmaster, whom you play up for the jerk he is. Maybe the answer is to include the son somehow. What does he think of all this, of both of them? Is he a naive innocent, blithely unaware? Is he just looking to have some fun? Maybe he'd a lot rather be with his girlfriend at home, or his best friend in the next tent? Maybe he thinks they're all nuts and just leave him alone? Do the other scouts know what's going on? Maybe they're too busy bouncing their own bedsprings to care? (Hey, if you're gonna go for farce, you might as well go all the way. Oh, uh, I just noticed what a really bad pun that was.) Maybe the trouble is the ambiguity and cynicism? But that's sort of the point you were wanting to get across, I think, how unworkable the duality of the narrator and Jason both are. Hmm. See if adding the son might work, I guess.

Wow, TragicRabbit's stories are multiplying like, well, like Rabbits. No wonder the cast are plotting against him. I'd heard Rabbits were prolific, but...really! At this pace, he'll wake up one day and be too busy scribbling to look fabulous. And that would be just...tragic...if you'll pardon the expression. But perhaps it's that high lagomorphic metabolism. Or all the cigs and DP. ...Oh, relax, TR, I'm only kiddin' ya. :hugs: Just get some sleep occasionally, OK?

* I submitted the poem below to Nick for inclusion on the site, but as he's busy, I'm going to post it below. * The vertical bars indicate two tabbed columns, which the forum can't handle. The columns are in the HTML file, though. * The poem may reappear on a site of my own later. * It was originally intended for inclusion in a story, but the story has fizzled, at least for now. * So here's the poem. Enjoy. * Oh, and the lack of capitals is intentional. ghost by ~Blue 2004-08-22 copyright ? 2004; all rights reserved; in sight? | out of sight? fade in? | fade out? fate in? | fate out? keep in? | keep out? stay in? | stay out? come in? | come out? join me in? | help me out? hide it? | show it? share my life? | turn away? love me? | hate me? courageous? | coward? foolish? | sensible? there is something in my closet. but it is not a skeleton. it is a ghost of me. a part of myself apart, hidden. someone i am but cannot be. i want to be my whole self. i do not want to hide the truth. yet i do not know how to face it. but it is me. it is who and what and how i am. i cannot hide from god. i cannot hide from me. i embrace this ghost into me. out is how i must be. ----- this poem was originally written 2004-08-07 for possible inclusion in a short story or novella. less than a week later, 2004-08-11, i came out to someone for the first time. i added the last two lines to resolve the change in my mindset on 2004-08-22. i have decided to post this poem. it may still end up in a story, we'll see. the side-by-side stanzas are meant to show the confusion and distress of the poem's narrator with mixed, undecided pros and cons. finally, the narrator comes to some resolution.

Guest appears to be having Anonymous fun with nesting. Hello, oh anonymous guest, you're getting deep into those nested pairs. And yes, you're nesting properly. The tags mustn't cross or go out of order. They nest like parentheses and brackets, like you've done. Now why do I suddenly feel so boxed in? :)

OK, before I get any further behind in commenting, I'm going to post what I've got and add more later. Replying to your reply to my reply to... oh, now I'm dizzy. Let me think on the scene changes. It depends on what effect you're going for as to which is more appropriate. I guess the analogy would be scene changes in film editing, since in live theatre there's usually a curtain or dimming the lights. In the first, oh, two to four chapters, I had to figure out where the scene changes were (due partly to text formatting) and then it got clearer. Should the same scene change style be maintained throughout? Tougher to answer. What is the tone of the chapter or the scene? I would tend to say scene changes should be the same throughout, but there are times when a scene should move seamlessly into the next or when each scene is a big change. I think it's a big strength to have the characters against stereotype in some way, unless it's done solely to say they are against stereotype. Yes, Angel's changing gradually and he keeps getting more complex and intriguing. You asked whether other characters were engaging, "More so than Angel?" No, I was just commenting that those others had quickly been given important new details. Just like with meeting new friends, I still like my old friends just as much as I used to, but now I know a few more people a little better too. The same is true as I get to know the cast list of Drama Club. What you said about char. arcs for Angel, Michael, Gene, and Bobby is a nice parallel. That connection hadn't dawned on me yet before I read your note. ----- The quotes: Use whatever medium and length adds to that point of the story. Quoting plays fits with a drama troupe's story, but anything "performable," including book quotes, makes sense. You'll know if it doesn't fit. Your explanation about Trey fits his char. and how the others view him. OK, so whatever's happening with him is "offstage" right now and we find out later. Poor Trey, that's scary. It's also very real. What you said about Gene and how he's protecting himself from showing how he's hurting, or what things hurt him -- oh boy, does that resonate with me. The "flawed hero" or anti-hero or simply a person and not a hero; Michael with Gene after Angel refuses at first; -- So none of the chars. are perfect or necessarily heroes. What? People screw up, a little or a lot? That's real life. Reader interest, what readers like, do they like Drama Club? The real question is, do you like it? You'd probably write it even if nobody ever read it. 1. Readers will read it and like it. 2. Some readers won't feel safe to e-mail, for whatever reason. 3. General advertising rule: If you get 10% responses on any ad, you're doing great. So multiply the number of people who replied by 10 and you'll get a rough estimate of the number of readers. 4. The number of views of a thread is often 10 times the number of replies in a thread, which is the same thing #3 is talking about.

OK, you probably say them about like, "soht, aboht," but with those "aw / or" vowels a bit shorter than long o, which in Aussie dialect turns out differently anyway. -- Yes, vowels differ a lot more than consonants. Er, and we now return you, gentle reader, to discussion of the poem at hand. Tien, forgive us for getting sidetracked. It wasn't a major point.

"Wouldja look at this. Somebody threw away a perfectly good white boy!" -- Men At Work A new driver and 6'7" ... someone out there should be very happy. No wonder he hasn't been busy writing. So when last we saw them, there's a prince and a nice naked servant boy wrapped in furs and assorted magical faere folke running around in the enchanted forest. Now, just where is that rune-spell to get them to quest for treasure in those tented furs and find their staves of wood? (What did he just say? I'm sure there was some innuendo there somewhere.) Blue notices that quite a few of those s.f. juveniles seemed to involve half-naked boys running off on quests on some alien planet or elfin realm. Blue wasn't exactly sure if he was supposed to be enjoying them in quite that way, but, oh, was Blue glad those books were there. Perhaps Warren's driving with his sunglasses at night, gathering "research material." That must be it. It would be really nice to see the journey start and finish.

I had to postpone the blind-date double-date that TR had set up. However, I did call and apologize, and the date and I had a brief conversation, 20 min. or so. No, TR was not the date or one of the other couple. Unfortunately, I had a close, personal relationship yesterday with some Imodium and Pepto-Bismol. That was not what I had planned for the day or evening! -- Yes, I was nervous about the date, but I know nervous, and that was way not it. Whatever issues I've got, and I think I know my issues, they aren't that severe, thank God. I also apologized to TR, and will talk to him again about it. I didn't hear at all from TR's friend. -- My apologies to all concerned. If it had just been nerves, I would've gone out. I haven't had a recurrence of the problem today, but still not quite up to par. So, my first gay date is postponed, and my first visit to that part of town for anything other than arts and entertainment hasn't happened yet. But I'll be venturing out in the near future. Meanwhile, a potential date, TR, and a couple of his friends are rightly put out. Sorry, guys.

Well, I was trying to allow for r-dropping. Without the R, the vowels would be similar enough to allow the rhyme, I suppose. A close rhyme and r-dropping both are fine. I'd expect them to be pronounced as "sawt" and "uh-bohht" or "uh-boh-uht." The closeness of the rhyme isn't the real issue there, imho. ----- I miss Nick, too. I hope he's just preoccupied with classes and work on his book. May he find no roadblocks on the path to enlightenment. I submitted a poem for the site, but haven't heard anything back. :( I thought my poem was pretty nice. I'm trying to be patient.

No spoilers in my reply, for the sake of those who haven't read it yet. Read both ch. 6 and the Epilogue, but they're difficult. Ch. 6 and the Epilogue were difficult to read. But wow, can Ryan write. Ryan, you've got one devious mind, buddy. And to think that these are some of the first things you've written! Wow. Keep that talent coming. I'm looking forward to your future stuff. (Even though, at the moment, I'd like to give you severe noogies for that!) -- Eu, gar?on emb?tant! Si dificile! Si troublant! Ecrivain d?vieux! -- Ooh, beastly boy! So difficult! So troublesome! Devious writer!

It's OK, aj, soon you'll be nice and crisp! ;) Just omit the spaces inside the square brackets below, and you'll be, uh, 8) cool as a cucumber. (Uh-oh, here we go again!) { The authors of goo-goo-muck probably want to julienne us by now. We're sorry, guys, we're just havin' a little fun. We *like* the story, even the poor lonely cucumber and that coconut oil. } To quote something, use the "quote" button and delete whatever you don't want to include. To do it the "hard" way: [ quote ] Quoth the raven, "Nevermore!" [ /quote ] (You just missed the end tag, [ /quote ] ) To include the name of the member being quoted: [ quote="aj" ] What does this button do? [ /quote ] [ quote="blue" ] Hey, that tickles! [ /quote ] Some forums include other stuff in the quote, like which post or reply or what date and time the original quote was written. You can do it the "hard" way or the "soft" way. That look-and-feel is good hard or soft, but not too hard.

Hi, Tien, that was pretty good, and of course, it's one of the favorite subjects for a poem. My only real criticisms at first reading are just spelling and grammar, and are very minor. There's only one that's a problem with getting across the idea you wanted to say in your poem. Please don't let my comments discourage you. (Also, everyone has trouble with grammar and spelling, so don't let it bother you if English isn't your first language.) The main one is in this verse: Generation after generation Endlessly sought Only to slip away breifly abort Sought and abort don't rhyme, and abort doesn't fit there. You need another word, with -ought or -aught or -ot or -aut. Maybe "caught" or "thought" would work there. You might need to change "briefly" to another word like "quickly" to fit your concept. It's plain you want to contrast "Endlessly sought" with some sudden loss. The others are: - Briefness (spelling) (more about "ie" versus "ei" below.) - Time flows, it flows -- You might want, "love" instead of "it." -- Time "flows" because it's singular, not plural. The -s on the end of verbs is not a plural marker, it used to be -th, centuries ago. - And leaves you cold -- For the same reason as "time flows." - presence, absence -- These need to be nouns; present and absent are the adjectival forms. - Joyous, Briefly, Will -- To fit the poetic form you're using, capitalize the first word of each line. - reign and rain -- Good, not an error, of course. Do think about using something else for "Briefly abort" or for "Time flows, it flows." Those are the only real problems in the poem. But it's clear you have the idea you want to get across. There's a rhyme that deals with "ie" and "ei" that goes: I before E, except after C Unless spoken as "ay" as in "neighbor" and "weigh." The other exceptions to the rule are when it's pronounced "ee" or "I" as in "either" and "neither."

That's good, Tien. You might even want to register. Either way, you're welcome here.