blue

Busy like a Rabbit, aren'tcha? Quiet transitional chapter, right up 'til we get the kicker at the end. Bwahahah! Yes, folks, Rabbit knows about cliffhangers, suspense, and misunderstandings as keys to dramatic conflict. Clever, devious Rabbit. Did you know that in at least one fandom, there are "Fluffy Plot Bunnies" and "Shippy Plot Bunnies," but the ones to really watch out for are the "Evil Plot Bunnies?" (That group of plot bunnies wear leather jackets and like to give writers great ideas for unexpected plot twists and character arcs.) -- I never knew there was a Tragic Rabbit plot bunny doing his own writing, though. But the last few chapters have proven it. (BTW, that's Farscape fandom, my handle over there is similar. Heh, *surprise,* if anybody's a fan of the show. Yeah, I went on a tangent. ----- Hmm. My own continuity meter must be off a bit. I can't recall if Gene's last name (Kuo) or being Asian American was mentioned earlier. Oops, had to revise my mental image slightly. Wasn't a huge thing for me, just a detail I hadn't known. By the way, I like that Gene and Angel are probably from families who've likely been here for generations. Extra style points for subtlety.

:D Thanks, Joey. A big hug back. And to Angel and Gene and the rest, a big thank you. Here's a card and flowers :rose: for Bobby, when he gets out of ICU, who's braver than he thinks.

Thanks for talking plain sense, Pecman. I'd appreciate anyone else's advice on the whole coming out situation. Yeah, I should've realized, from my own insecurities, that it makes a little more sense to tell someone about yourself, and just let it be another part of yourself, not hitting on them or waving a flag or anything. -- And yes, I did mean so that I could reveal it in order to ask for information, guidance. -- At the moment, I'm just trying to think this through, anyway. I mean, a couple of the folks I'll talk to are lesbians. It should be interesting to find out if they figured me out. (Heh, feels nice to be able to find some humor in this.) My 20th high school reunion is coming up. No, I'm not gonna stand up on a table and shout out. Caution? I've been in the closet all this time. I'm not about to throw caution to the winds, even if part of me would love to. I want more than that, I want to be integrated and happy and proud about who I am. ----- Oh! Hey, Dude! Just saw you'd posted while I'm writing this reply. Thank you!

Hi, everyone. Blue did something important today. Blue told someone he's...*gay.* -- I didn't get killed or told to get lost or told I'd burn in hell. Actually, it wasn't entirely voluntary. The friend, my minister, in a counseling session, asked a question that I couldn't bring myself to wiggle out of. Counseling session? Yes. A bunch of things were dumped in my lap all at once, a while back, nothing I could do anything about and not my fault. But it was all new at once. Add that to a guy who's barricaded himself in the ole metaphorical closet, and stir. Well, it turns out I'm still welcome at church. That happens to be an important part of my life, so I'm relieved in many ways. (I'm not in the ministry, but several relatives are, part of my closet problem.) It looks like there may finally, finally be a way for me to come out gradually and safely, and integrate this intimate part of me with the rest of me. Oh, God, I hope so. -- I am not going to run out and tell everyone I know, even though I've wanted to for a long time. Some of my family will not accept this. Some friends may not. Some church members may not. I'm not rushing into things, here. I'm not going to do anything stupid or unsafe. I'm here for the duration. I've been in the gay/artsy/alternative part of town (big city, actually) but never to explore. I'm sorta out of practice. I kinda doubt you can use the same approach as the ones that worked in school, not that that happened as often as I would've liked. I was too busy being confused or in denial, most of the time. Or do things work the same way? See, told ya I was out of practice. I would like to say a very BIG THANK YOU to everyone here and on Hoodster's lj (and a few people on another board who are openly GLBT). Thanks to you all, I had the chance to talk to guys and grrls who were out or closeted. Thanks to the freedom of press and freedom of speech on the web, I had the chance to learn real information and check out stories and, yes, images, and talk to people. That showed me what I felt and thought and what I've been through wasn't as...alone...as I'd thought. Sometimes, it has been discouraging to see how common some of the negative things are. Sometimes, it has been really great to see that other people like me are not all the negative things that people who don't understand claim about...us. Us. Us. That 10% thing. That's the problem. Who is, who isn't? Still have to be careful. That whole "gaydar" thing, too bad it's not that easy. But there are a few people I know of whom I can probably ask a discrete question or two. That first question's a doozie, though. Big leap of faith. Uh-oh. Is there a way you can ask a friend, someone you've known a while, politely, if they're gay. Is it as simple as, "(Name), if I'm out of line, I'm sorry, but...are you gay?" -- When I was in school, I never felt like anyone who asked that was really sincere. They always, always seemed like they were baiting me. I'd hope I'd know if someone was genuinely caring about the answer. Hmm. Hope I didn't disappoint anybody back then. Well, any advice?? Some of you guys are more used to this whole thing. Little help, here? -- Jeez, I feel silly.

Hey, you don't need to quote the previous posts unless something particularly needs it. Folks ought to read the whole thread. The slash in the ends a quoted passage. BTW, if you don't know, the term "slash fic" refers to same-sex pairings, sometimes against char., in fanfic, from "boy/boy, girl/girl," that sort of thing. Tragic Rabbit said: Heh, you've got the writing bug, alright. Wait'll they insist on doing something you didn't expect, or do something you'd never do yourself. Relationships, meeting, dating -- LOL, Yeah, you're right, when *did* those change? Archetypes. All those. You're only half kidding; maybe not kidding. -- My parents loved me and said I could tell them anything. Somehow I got the message, "anything but ~that.~" I don't know if it was true. ----- I think I understand now what your approach or intent is with Angel, kind of an anti-hero, or at least someone that many people would only look at on the surface. I get your point about makeup, too. I get it about performing, no question. I think I get it about personal style. Yet, I balked. Why? Do I think it's effeminate? I know better, from history. I had a friend whose voice and manner fit the "effeminate" or "gay" stereotype. He was a great guy; I honestly didn't care, and said so publicly. (I think they moved before graduation.) Maybe, like usual, I'm over-thinking this. -- Strange to be uncertain over something basically trivial. ----- Chapter 6 was terrific. The surrealistic scenes at the start made sense. Bobby's mother, not getting it at all. Mary, trying to get it but not quite there, embarrassing Angel. Angel getting a reprimand from John at just the wrong time. Gene's astute reaction. Michael choosing the wrong time and getting the wrong reaction, from someone unprepared for the idea. Angel and Jaye's relationship clarified somehow. Bobby's mother and father, and the whole "deprogramming" thing. You said it, very Manchurian Candidate. -- I know people who think that way. You said a whole lot in how Angel simply turned his head and looked away, saddened and embarrassed. I know that feeling. When I first posted in this thread, I said that Angel and I might be polar opposites. I meant it somewhat jokingly, but partly seriously too. However, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I'd never been harrassed or never second-guessed myself just for an inflection or a movement, or for being stared at for no damn reason I could fathom, just because I'm me. I don't really think "it" "shows." Other times, I wonder if there's this big, glowing, lavender neon sign on my forehead...or one of those blue dots. (By the way, I didn't know about handkerchiefs or that bit about, "what if every gay person turned blue for a day," when I chose to go by Blue.) ...Er, sorry, guys, I think I went off on a rant there for a second. Please bear with me. Tragic Rabbit may feel all new and vulnerable about his writing. I'm sitting in this figurative closet, trying to peek out. I told someone today and didn't get rejected. I was scared to death. I live in one of the biggest cities in my state, nation, this planet, with a well-known gay part of town, arts, alternative, the works. I've been there, but never to go to a gay bar or...anything. I have no idea who knows or suspects, except for probably a few former roommates or classmates. No one ever, ever was *impolite* or honest or ~whatever~ enough to seriously ask me, except in cases where I felt sure I was being baited in school. Damn it, this is not fun. -- I have lived with this for a long time, and I'm not going anywhere or doing anything stupid or unsafe. Sorry to vent, folks. -- I'm really thankful the person I told didn't tell me to get lost (or worse). A big thanks to everyone here, who's helped just by being here. -- Again, I'm here and not goin' anywhere. -- Thanks for listening to a guy in a "closet" have a semi-public meltdown. Needed to get it off my chest. Tragic Rabbit, you rock, don't let anybody tell you different.

Blue would point out that Tragic Rabbit has done two somethings that Blue hasn't: 1. Tragic Rabbit has a story posted with several chapters. Blue has advice and does work editing/proofing, but no posted stories, just some chapters/notes of stories sitting on disc. 2. Tragic Rabbit is not in the closet. Blue is just peeking out. Not peeing out, peeking out.... Seems to me that qualifies Tragic Rabbit plenty, newbie or not. I promise not to push either of you in a puddle unless you want to mud wrestle! Pantsed? Well, I wouldn't want a wedgie, but I'll show you mine if you show me yours. :o

Well, OK, to each his own. What ~does~ anyone else think?

Hi, Dude. I'd like to suggest a story for inclusion. It's over on Nifty and still in progress, regularly updated. I don't know if the author has finished or is working ahead from what he's posted. The story is Everything's Eventual by R.H. Lee. The story centers on relationships and support. There's been no sex, just mentions that couples are involved. There's a group of six gay, lesbian, and bi friends who the main char. lucks into meeting, but that is needed for the story and turns out not to be a clich? at all. Along the way, Ryan's cousin Mitch comes to live with them and is very bad news for a while until the reasons for that are revealed. Everyone in the story is developed as a real character and the situations are all realistic. It's quite well done. The only complaint I have is that two characters are similarly named, which was initially confusing. There's Nathan and Nathaniel; the latter is sometimes called Nath. That's been the only fault, though. There are currently 7 parts and it's regularly updated. First rate. There hasn't been anything that would make it, IMHO, unsuitable for mainstream Young Adult fiction involving gay characters, by the way. It would be nice to see the story here at some point.

8) Wow, quick response, and talk about responding to the readers! Ch. 3 turns Jem's char. on his ear and makes us see he's not as freaky out-there as he seemed. Fantastic! More good stuff on Tyler and his family, and a near-miss with Jaylin that gets a fast save. I see there's a link to the story on mailcrew. Good deal. Ryan, your story rocks. Hey, when will we learn more about Kayden and those guys? :: poke, poke, poke ::

(The 8 + ")" gets transformed into a smiley. Try "8." instead.) Definitely getting better and making sense. Stage Fright ?= Writer's Block? Breathe in, breathe out. Spelling note, common problem, hardly just you: "a breath" without a final E for the noun; "to breathe" with final E for the verb. Don't recall if you missed it, but it happens a lot. (Crazy English spelling....) 1. Your dialogue's fine, to me. If you need slang or sentence fragments or dialect, that's fine too, in dialogue. If you do need to write dialect, less is more, i.e. don't respell every word phonetically. A word or two will get the message across. Doesn't look like any of the chars. need dialect, though. 2. Still getting to know the chars., some of the major chars. might could use some more details, so we see their depth; Jaye, for instance. Not sure how Doug or Camille will fit in, major, minor, extra. Getting a good idea of who Angel and Bobby are. Gene and Michael get some detail fairly quickly, also Anthony. When we first see Gene, we learn he's a little cool and distant, Spock-like. If I weren't a Trek fan, I might wonder if that was a little shorthand, how he's first presented, but it works for me. Each time he talks with Angel and in the confrontation scene in ch. 4, we get a better idea of who Gene is. All the characters that are supposed to be likeable or ambiguous (good, bad, both, neither) or villains come off as they should. 3. Scene changes. Try indenting the quotes from plays or poems, except if the chars. are delivering the lines within the story. If you have a major act or scene change that seems to need it, use a line with a few dashes or stars as a cue to the reader for the separation. It also helps Dude or any editor to know how to format the story for posting on the site. Because of that, it took a little while to know whether the actors were saying their lines or whether the quotes were there to indicate a change. For the same reason, it took a moment to realize when a dream sequence began and ended. Interior dialogue (thoughts or soliloquy) might have the same issue. The quotes are a nice, artful way to add to the story, and very appropriate for a story about a drama club (or language arts or journalism/lit. mag. or foreign language clubs). The dream sequences add psych. interest too. The tech. aspect is all I'd mention. Use your judgment on when an act or scene change should be abrupt or gentle in transition. Please do keep the quotes and the variety. It adds to the story and helps distinguish it. It's right for a drama club story. Just nice all around. Hey, Tragic Rabbit's literate! Not litter he ate. ;) 4. Threads. I think those are there, it's a little early in the story to tell. Char. arcs with Angel and Jaye, Angel and Bobby, Bobby and his parents, Angel and his parents, Angel's changing perception of Gene, Angel and Michael, Gene and Michael, the Drama Club and the Bullies among the Jocks and school. You have a recurring cat motif going, too, as a sexual metaphor. Angel as representative of drama itself. How Doug, Camille, Trey, Anthony, Ms. Robi, or John enter into it, not sure. You've introduced some of the conflicts, maybe not all. 5. Heheheh. Well, I hope I've covered that. For the record, still I don't think you've screwed up. Anything we need to clarify for you, just ask. (Who said we make sense or know what we're talking about?) 6. Hope I've clarified that a little; I think I confused/frustrated you before. The sex scenes seem a little quick/brief, but that does kinda fit with what high school was like. Otherwise the scenes are alright. Wish it could be as simple and comfortable in my own life. Shyness, self-doubt, and past history, here. We know who's involved. How did they get involved? How close are they, what kind of relationship? Case in point: Gene. It surprised me for Gene to be gay and with Michael. Even if Michael or Gene were not, it would make sense (and was handled well) how Michael exited and got Gene (offstage) to break up the fight. So maybe a little background on them would be good. Maybe that's ahead anyway. How do the scenes fit with the story? Hmm. Tough question. Not sure. In a couple of places we do get clues that Bobby is insecure about his feelings, which becomes important in Ch. 5. Oh, one other item. The red dream sequence. I'll take that as foreshadowing, but I don't know for sure if it was for the fight with Ryan, the situation with Bobby, both, or some future event. It adds a psychological thriller element which is interesting. 7. Hope I've answered that. Prob'ly more right than you think. (Jeez, this Blue guy is long-winded when he posts.) 8. Hope I've answered that too. Nothing jumped out at me as, "don't *do* that!" WHEW! You still awake, there? Did I bore ya to tears? Didn't drive you to tears by criticizing the story, did I? (Please, no.) Jeez, what's with this Blue character, anyway? -- Well, it's a chance to talk to people about something I've kept bottled up for a long time, for one. For another, I like writing and like liberal arts. Maybe you can tell.... ;)

Hello, Tragic Rabbit. Oh boy, long reply here. I've now read through all the chapters so far. Sorry you're having computer troubles. You might try writing your replies in a text editor and then cutting and pasting into the forum. I meant initial impressions, when I said Angel seemed campy or flaming at first. I also didn't mean it in the phony, negative sense (well, not entirely). It's clear even beginning in Chs. 1 and 2 that he isn't just being over the top or in your face, and as things develop, we see that he has reasons in his past that contribute to him being up front and (outwardly at least) unworried about how he presents himself. I guess that reflects how the public and even gays or questioning folks get worried about someone who fits the stereotype in some way. Yes, it also says something about what I'm comfortable with or used to or have issues with. Angel is a sympathetic character. Compare him with Jem ("Princess Sparkles") in Ryan K.'s One Life, and you'll see right away that Angel is clearly not like the scarily out-there Jem. (BTW, I figure there's more to that character than we've seen so far.) First impressions again on the sex scenes in Ch. 1 and 2. Very quickly, we're introduced to two or three hurried, teen hormone-filled scenes and a couple of dream sequences. So as a reader, my first impression is to wonder if this is a quickie (j/o) or a farce, or quite what story reasons the author might have for starting that way. As things go along, it's clear this isn't a quickie or a farce, it's serious and honest. BUT - From that we learn very quickly that Angel is not your typical straight-acting boy and that the guys and girls in drama are comfortable enough together that things happen from the excitement of the moment and ongoing friendships. We also learn immediately who he likes/loves/trusts. Yup. I agree wholeheartedly on that. The stories I like tend to have recognizably true-to-life characters. That can mean just about any personality or body type for a character. -- I am not Mr. Macho, not a race-horse (sorry to disappoint!), just average. That pale, skinny, quiet brain in school? That was me, friendly but not a party animal. I wasn't fishing about you or about Angel. I'm Anglo, but I *expect* diversity; I'd feel strange and incomplete without it. Drama kid, meet a language geek. :) If it's shown as a natural part of the characters, that makes sense. We are both just as likely to buy bread as tortillas. That's a lame example, but it's concrete. If people have a problem with that, then it's not *your* problem, they just don't (or won't) understand. To me, it's bad writing and worse ideology when it's pointed out endlessly just how (stereotypically) ethnic some guy is. 'Disagreeing' about high school sex? Not quite. It was my first impression from Chs. 1 and 2, because of how it works in introducing the story, how it's immediately there. Maybe it would be good to show how, for teens, it's so often incomplete, interrupted, not private, frustrating, or just plain not there or not all that they'd want -- along with how it can be a long, steady relationship, a casual friendliness, a sudden surprise, or many other things, new and complex. Unrealistic? Heh, those hormones kick into overdrive for all of us in our teens. So spontaneous attractions or hard-ons, for no reason, or dreams, solo, the sudden need to go take care of it, but not always the opportunity at the time...yes, all of those. Also the hesitant, "I really like him. How can I work around to ask him? Is it right to do that? What if he says no?" That, too. Also finding out that someone wasn't interested before asking, or that maybe they were, or rejection, or being outed, or all of the kinds of cautious maybe's or yes's. -- See, it's how it comes across, degree or quality, not that it's there. I mean, I read these stories, right, so obviously I like what's there. Um, frankly, past history and personal experience and unresolved religious questions enter into it for me. When I first found *stories* online, not just a jumble of classy and classless pictures, wow. Then when I found that some of those stories had more than just Wham-Bam-Thank-You-Sam, but that they had people I could relate to, experiences so like mine...amazing. I needed that, big-time. There are blogs and boards? I can actually *talk* to people like me, safely? Thank God. -- It looks like you are finding that out now. Beginning with Ch. 3 and onward, it looks like you are learning quickly and hitting your stride. Interactions and conversations and inner thoughts take over, and the sex gets more balanced. I think you're on the right track. Compare a written story with a script. The words in the former have to take the place of the stage directions and all of the things that a stage production shows about the scene and cast. The written piece has room for lots of extras too, that a play doesn't have time to show; two different art forms, both tell a story. :arrow: Suppose you had to write out a novelization of a short skit or one-act play. (Do they do that as a drama exercise?) Your task is to describe all the important parts of the scene, and include the dialogue as-is or add to it. Maybe that will help you figure it out. The storytelling varies with the type of impact you're going for. Look at books you like to see how they're structured. Ack, lit. criticism, sorta takes the fun out of reading a fav. book, huh? Just keep it in the back of your mind as you read. I'm sort of assuming that a theatre major would have some of the same composition and lit. classes, so I figure you have some idea of it. I can see you like poetry. I think you're stressing over pacing from what people are telling you, but I think you're figuring that out as you go. It makes me wonder if I missed your intent in 1 and 2, because after them, you seem to change pace. OK, I see as the story goes along that Angel gets concern and flak for how he dresses and acts. You handle that really well. Yes, that and the other issues you cover, those are spot-on too. Good story material. So yes, you're covering that well. Been there, friends or myself. Not fun, but needs to be talked about. Where and when I went to high school (public school, outskirts of a big city, suburbs and otherwise, middle class and lower) Angel would've been sent to the office for dress code. Heck, you could go the office for hair over your collar or facial hair or an "inappropriate" (metal music) t-shirt. This was right as Madonna was coming onto the scene and right before Boy George. Trying to explain who Boy George to my parents was...different. ;) I'm not sure how they'd deal with all the variety you see now. But a teacher friend of mine commented that the boy in that Sprint(?) commercial, who's going out with a very mild club-kid look (tail, punk hair, earring, necklace) would not be tolerated by the kids where she teaches. -- Not how I was brought up, but it's silly for people to get uptight about it, isn't it? I got a big kick out of how adults reacted when one kid at church showed up with a bright red dye-job. The kids and younger adults got it; the older adults either got it or were mystified or disapproved. I'd say the drama kids are the main characters, but she is an important supporting character. She's important to them, so demonstrate why. The role of the teachers or counselors in the story and how the young guys and girls think of them determines the size and importance of their roles. -------- New Stuff: Wow, as the story goes on, you've got a lot of good stuff, story-wise, coming in. Backstory that explains who Angel is and why; phobia with Ryan; ambiguity with Gene and Michael; poor Bobby's situation. Gene: I sort of expected him to be a sympathetic straight who turned out to be a friend. Didn't expect him and Michael to have anything going. Not complaining, just surprised a little. Bobby: Poor guy. I guess we'll see what happens in Ch. 6. Ugh, his parents and those pamphlets.

Well, when I read Tragic Rabbit's replies last night, it made me put on my thinking cap. So you'll get a couple of big, long, wordy posts after this one. Hope they help. Hey, Tragic Rabbit. I have a couple of replies to post. Reading through the thread tonight, I see a couple of things. 1. YOU DO NOT SUCK! (Well, not at writing, anyway, what you do with friends is none of my business. Heheh. Just teasin'. No probs with that here.) 2. Nifty: Mixed bag. Some real gems, some crap, some not to meet in a dark alley. -- I read things there. 3. Read Driver's "Falling Off a Log." It'll make you laugh and cry and want to take guitar and sing. 4. What WBMS said about pacing and description is good. What amount of detail reveals the characters and the setting and mood? It's a play, in words. -- I'm an amateur at writing, too. What they teach, even in college, is not like actually structuring and painting with words, is it? Yup. I agree. 5. Your writing is NOT "utter shyte" by any means! Far from it! You've started a wonderful story and I'd like to read it. Please don't give up on it. I really hate when a nice story isn't completed. 6. "How non-white would be received?!" Please buddy, you are welcome here. I don't know how else to say it. :'( 7. Here's how you do a quote: [ quote ] Omit spaces between the square brackets and the tag name. [ /quote ] 8. Where do you find a proofreader or editor or "beta reader," to use a fanfic term? Ask here. There are writers and editors/proofers here. Let me think on it, OK? I only have to think about it time-wise. (I edit Perry and Jesse. I started editing with V-19 or V-20.) ----- Below, I've realized I refer to teens as "kids." Major Oops. As a teen, I *hated* that. I was *not* a kid. I respected adults and wanted them to respect me as a *teen* and not talk down to me. So, teens and anyone younger, I really, really apologize. The only difference being an "adult" brings is experience, or seasoning, and your hormones calm back down to a reasonable level, but they're still there. (Trust me, you'll still get horny. Ahem.) There are plenty of "adults" who are immature and plenty of teens or younger kids who are mature. The best is to keep your child-like sense of wonder and fun and optimism. Oh, seems like I climbed up on a soapbox. Sorry.

The Readers Rule section is temporarily wandering the ether, so I thought I'd post here. Just wanted to say I like Ryan's new One Life quite a lot. I wonder what's in store for Tyler, brave guy. Looks like he has a lot to get through and has found some good friends to get him through it. Rare and good to see. I also wonder just what Ryan has in mind for "Princess Sparkles." I wonder if he's going to be more than a comic or tragic foil or a villain. In person, he'd tend to set my teeth on edge. But stories have a way of pointing out difficult truths. Ryan's doing a great job with this and with Kayden. Hope to see more soon, before uni. classes take up his semester's time. (Although I'll bet he might use writing as a welcome release from all the pressure.)

Hi, Tragic Rabbit, I'm not sure, I might be your polar opposite. So please keep the snowshoes and the salt shaker handy (grain of salt, y'know). Also, I want to offer constructive thoughts. I hope I won't bother you; I sure don't mean to. First, what I like so far. Later, I'll get to criticism. I'm only in Ch. 2, so bear with me. Wow. Closet-boy here thinks Angel might be my polar opposite. Part of me can't imagine being so out or campy. Part of me is a little envious of the freedom and ease these kids express their sexuality. In high school, I actually defended two friends into drama and mime from some idiots. I do get that you may be using the drama club as a way to explain being a little (or a lot) flamboyant. I like that they like acting and plays, and that you've shown it as a substitute family. It's true in life and in metaphor for being gay. About the play quotes, a formatting suggestion: try indenting them. Use the blockquote tag for the HTML, if you're doing it that way at all. I love the sense of fun and humor. I know there'll be other things, but I like that you're (and they're) having fun. Aside: Strange, I'd never considered "Bottom" in quite the context of a "bottom" before; I wouldn't put that pun past the Bard, either, he might well have meant that too. I guess I've missed it. Is the main character's name pronounced as in Spanish ("Ahn-hel") or English? I don't know why I started with him as "Angel;" that doesn't make sense. I know people who pronounce their names the English way, though, too. If Angel wants to reply to that or anything else, he's welcome. Now the criticism. Ouch! (Sotto voce, V.O. offstage, from a Closet onstage.) Already they've all had more sex than I did in high school. (Grumbles.) OK, that's partly just me. But actually, it's a criticism of the story, too. Maybe your point is that they really are that casual about it. That's outside my experience; I wasn't a drama kid and I was uptight, confused, late-bloomer, whatever. If that's your intent, fine; maybe it's a good point in itself. But otherwise, I'd agree with WBMS: slow down and build up their character relationships, so we as readers know that they aren't just doing it with whoever is, uh, handy. (Sorry 'bout the pun. I have a weakness for 'em.) To me, that's a difference between a piece meant to be performed and a piece to be read. What has to be compressed and can be shown on-stage with all five senses needs more time and has more time in written form. What I mean is that the reader, unless he's looking for a quickie, wants more depth, and it seems like you are aware of that from knowing about the arts. I figure it will develop as the story goes along. Then again, maybe closet-boy is just uncomfortable with it. You may have noticed the words, "I" and "me" seem to occur a lot here. Ahem. Cigarettes. I hadn't noticed that, but I don't smoke. Neither here nor there to me how you handle that. This may figure into parts of your story I haven't read yet. If Angel in particular went to school around here either now or especially back when I went, wearing makeup, he'd get sent to the principal's or nurse's and ordered to come back dressed according to dress code. That assumes he didn't first get stomped into a pulp by some of those idiots I mentioned earlier. I mention that only because it points out a story conflict and real-life conflict that you'd have to account for. I have no idea how dress code policy now deals with even the milder forms of decoration, although I've seen one or two kids, even boys, occasionally with dyed hair. But then, school uniforms are foreign to me too. Hmm. Guess that's it. Hope I haven't torn it to shreds. I'll keep reading, honest. The play's the thing. Oh, and as for sexual innuendo in Shakespeare, how about the opening scenes of R&J? I remember being surprised when my high school English teacher actually explained it to us! -- Sorry, don't have the play in front of me, so I'll paraphrase. Romeo and Mercutio and others are in a fight with the Jets or Sharks or Capulets...something like that. One of them comments, "My naked weapon stands unsheathed!" He was joking about his sword, but with those codpieces.... Oh my. (I liked the "DiCaprio" movie version...possibly mostly for Leo...but I liked it all around. Nice adaptation.) Maybe you have other plays in later chapters. Surely they'll have other things than Shakespeare, such as South Pacific or Our Town or something else usual for high school. Or maybe Ms. Robi will do something unusual. -- By the way, you've said how much the kids love her. Let us get more insight into her character so we see why. If it helps, maybe think of this as presenting the backstory and research that actors develop about their characters. Here, you have the room to present that with words. I'm known for long replies. Hope it was helpful and not just a rambling soliloquy. What? Who turned out the lights? What's that hook doing here? Wait a minute, I'll remember my line, I promise! (Lines and blocking and stage fright, but I've acted twice with the on-again, off-again group at church. Loved it, just need more practice to build confidence.) You have my sympathies. I grew up in Texas too, just a very few years earlier, it seems. (Edited to add:) (Later:) OK, I read through Ch. 3. Guess I spoke too soon about conflict. Still hope for more char. development, but looks like you're getting to that. -- And don't let my natterings discourage you. Keep writing! -- Hmm. Maybe I shoulda hung out with the drama kids. Might've cured some of the shyness and denial from the kid who liked a few friends more than he could admit. What? Was that mic. on? Hehehe. Oops.

Suggestion: Why not move this thread to the Poet's Corner? My cats also want to know where to send flowers, but I found the sig funny anyway. Keep on with the limericks, haikus, kennings, and puns. I've been getting a huge chuckle out of 'em. Sort of a guilty pleasure. Ahem. Blue scribbles something madly, then steps up to the mike. "Hiya, Mike!" ::groans:: There once was a guy in a closet. Now why was he there, you may posit? All that baggage and issues, And things wrapped in tissues, Had him flummoxed whenever he'd toss it! :heart: Oh, it was so simple in school days. But confusing somehow in a strange haze. It made me quite pensive, And overtly defensive. To find guys in my dreams was no phase. (Shoot, I need to lighten up! ~ Here goes.) My dick has a mind of its own. My brain is confused by this bone. Tell that to my knob, When boys make it throb. Hard-on, tell my brain it's alone.

If you're not sold on doing it as strictly a journal format, then have you thought of this possibility? Why not intersperse frequent journal entries, newspaper clippings, and other items in with regular narrative and dialogue? Treat it as if it was a scrapbook someone is putting together or leafing through it, Charlie or Kevin or perhaps someone else. Actually, that could be a way to frame the story. It would also vary what's presented, to keep the reader's interest piqued. I still really like the hook of doing the short story as a journal. Maybe you'd want to try a sample chapter using each approach, to see what works best for you.

Keep rubbing, that's a start, although you might not get much written that way, lol. ~ OK, I won't go off on a whole riff on rubbing, rubbings, rubbing someone the right/wrong way.... { Gets dizzy from straining the metaphor and falls over. } Back to being serious. What's the character like? That might determine what he'll do. Why not write a little bit, to see where he starts going, without worrying about genre. It seems like you're getting yourself stuck trying to narrow it down to a story type or genre, when you don't want to narrow your field down, since you just have a character and not any other characters or situations or plots. Once you get an idea where he's going with all this, then you can either plot something out or keep going without knowing it in advance. That would depend on how you like to write. Maybe a little less structure or a little more structure would help you out? From what you've written on your site and an item or two elsewhere (mailcrew, etc.) I take it you tend toward the highly structured and detail-oriented, so maybe trying the reverse will help.

You have to watch for those invisible "This is humor / hyperbole / sarcasm" tags. -- I thought it was funny; I figured it was obvious aussie_gw was kidding. -- Relax, guys, lighten up and reread if somethiing strikes you as odd. -- It must be that 8) sexy Aussie accent that has them distracted. :roll:

What kind of conflict or drama, how much is too much? I can offer two major points. First, ask the seven reporter's questions: 1. Who? Which people, things, etc. are affected? 2. What? What happens? What events take place? What is the type of conflict? (Man vs. what?) 3. When? When does it happen? What's the sequence or repetition? 4. Where? Where does it happen? Is it internal, external, some specific place, or a conflict of ideas? 5. How? How do those involved respond? How do they feel or think about or act on what happens? 6. Why? Why did the conflict happen? Was it coincidence? Was it because someone did or didn't do or say something? 7. How much / how many? What amount of conflict or numbers of conflicts can the characters handle? How many people are affected? How much is required for the characters to take action (or not act)? What happens if there is too much to handle? Whatever the source of the conflicts, however big or small the conflicts are, asking those questions will help clarify things. Second, what makes it believable and what will make the reader stop and say it's too unbelievable, that he's stepped outside the realm of the story and is rudely back in the real world. -- Whether you're going for a realistic story or a fantasy tale, whatever the genre, there are things that will kick the reader out of the story. Personally, I prefer the conflict to come naturally out of the characters' personalities and actions. Sure, chance happenings can and do occur, but the real hero should solve the problem himself, rather than some other character or chance event waltzing in to provide a ready-made answer. That cheats the hero and the reader. Also, make the heros and the villains have depth. Don't be afraid to make the villain have a good point too. Don't make the villain too weak, figuratively. Let the hero have flaws. Yes, it's possible for a good story to have exciting plots but cardboard characters. Some good, pro. authors do that. I just find it more interesting if the characters are more than cardboard cutouts.

I'll check out that story. I can definitely understand your friend's reaction. Handicapped or not, the questions are pretty much the same.

I think it's effective as-is. The journal format and newspaper clipping worked well, including the surprise ending that they both eloped, despite Charlie's parents being a gay couple. Personally, I like the idea better that they eloped, rather than a single or dual suicide. If you are considering a full story, I'd say write about what happens after they leave. What do Charlie's parents or Kevin's family do? What happens to Charlie and Kevin? You could either keep it strictly in journal format or mix journal entries and news articles with the usual narrative and dialogue format. They'd face all kinds of challenges trying to live on their own that young. For comparison, I remember my reaction to a long teaser Aterovis wrote. The teaser was an alternate ending for a book. In a later story, he kills off one of the main characters (it may have been the narrator!) and has another character begin narrating. Well, since that main character was the one I was invested in as a reader, it felt like cheating, like a bait-and-switch. Now, on the other hand, having a character deal with the death of another character can work well. I wish "Do What You Can" had been completed, which deals with that as its major theme. To summarize, take the story from after the short story ending and use the short story as a prologue. Or let the short story stand on its own; it's strong enough to do that. But if you have more to tell about Charlie, Kevin, and the others, by all means do. Just make sure the further story adds something new and completes things.

gpaulbishop wrote: I'm sure there are many people who'd be interested in a site like that. I would. (Please let me know how it progresses.) Well, Perry and Jesse has at least two readers who are visually handicapped, although the story doesn't involve physically challenged / differently abled people. I'm one of them, so if I don't use the politically correct terms, it's because I've heard all the euphemisms and not politically correct words. (And visually impaired or legally blind makes little sense to anyone, but I can tell you exactly what it means.) The Least of These would probably be one story for consideration. I think it would be wonderful to have a site for GLBT / questioning / friendly people who are physically challenged. Such folks could use resources to understand and deal with both sets of issues. Fiction that they can relate to would be a big plus. IMHO, a story doesn't have to have a disabled character for me to get something out of it. But I can definitely identify with what the characters go through for being gay. Handicapped folks are often subjected to similar discrimination because they are perceived as "different" or "strange." I'd also offer one other caution. I'll be blunt. I've read a few stories on Nifty that did have handicapped characters. Way too often, I got the distinct impression that the author didn't understand what it was like. Or worse, with a couple of stories, an unsettling feeling that something was just...off. Now the first just means the author needs to learn something about what physically challenged people are like and what they go through. The other...that bothers me more than I can say. I don't think we can/should pretend that people will always be gentle and understanding of handicaps or of the feelings and desires of people with handicaps. There's everything from being called gay (even if they aren't), to being treated as asexual, to being taken advantage of, or offered a "mercy (act)" (as opposed to a genuine relationship). Also, sometimes handicapped folks develop social maladjustments, including sexual ones. There can also be a lot of questioning, guilt, or anger, at themselves and at anyone else, at both their sexual and handicapped situation. All that is all too true, so fiction or non-fiction ought to deal with those things. There are a ton of positive things that can be said, though. Many people, even kids and teens, can be wonderful relatives, friends, and caregivers. Part of that is to make sure a handicapped friend has education and opportunities to explore relationships. (BTW, most handicapped folks are going to be shy about their sexual feelings or questions around others.) Heck, if a friendship becomes something more, that's great. Hmm. Think I need to work on that a bit myself, says closet-boy. Well, I didn't expect to get quite that deep into the subject, but maybe the input will help your site plans, Paul, as well as Dude and any story writers.

:laughing: No, I go boy! Er, I would go boy. Definitely *am* boy. I'm not Mr. Macho Jock Boy, but definitely boy. Thus, the whole closet issue. But I know you're just teasing, Ben. (Anybody with that screen name has *got* to have a sense of humor.)

:oops: Thanks, Dude. I'm going to spend some time this evening trying to kick-start those words on at least one story idea; not sure which one. I have several things, a chapter here or some ideas there, I say I'm working on. Yes, there's a couple that may make it to this site, if I can get 'em going. Each of the other stories/ideas are mainstream science fiction, but the ideas for stories here are current or recent past times, not science fictional.

I guess I'll have to download the internet version to compare the two. But maybe what you're referring to is this: The piece, Vidhrar Vel Til Loftarasa, used for the video is shorter than the piece on the original album; the album name is Agaetis Byrjun. The video leaves out about three minutes of music at the front of the piece. I personally can't think of anything in the video itself that would be too shocking for the public. Well, aside from the whole premise, that two boys could become not just friends, but show sexual feelings, from an act of kindness, all to the great consternation of the adults. A bit of trivia on the group's site says the song that originally would've been used for the boys was Staralfur. Another site gives English translations of the lyrics (thank goodness). http://www.alwaysontherun.net/sigur.htm#a7 Another video on the DVD show an interpretive dance troupe dressed as angels, with another two dancers doing other parts. The unusual thing is that the dancers have Downs Syndrome. It's actually quite sweet, especially the ending where two dancers smile, laugh, and then share a kiss. The last video on the DVD is an odd post-apocalyptic thing with kids in gas masks playing against a backdrop of black snow and a red sky. I notice, though, that except for the ending, they still play like little kids. ----- I do wish they'd include easier to read titles on the cases, and English and Icelandic printed lyrics. (I get the point of the ( ) disc, though, and it's very gutsy, artsy, and a little crazy to try it.) The band uses every kind of sound, including the human voice as an instrument, with nonsense syllables in some songs, similar to doo-wop or scat or freestyle use of human vocal sounds at play. The singer, Jonsi's, voice -- I don't know how he does that, exactly. He clearly can sing in a tenor register, but he can also sing a falsetto, and his voice very often has a unique *other* quality to it, child-like, almost alien or elf-like, but not a forced affectation. Except he's an adult. It's something you have to hear to understand, and throughout the songs, he has lots of variations. It isn't an unnatural or annoying tone at all. The quality of the Icelandic words adds to the otherworldly feel. Shades of Middle-Earth. All in all, very interesting listening.