blue

Welcome! Glad you're here. I hope you guys, and other teens, enjoy it here.

Thank you, Ben Dover. :chuckles: I really needed that. I just replied to a thread of mine on DeweyWriter (I'm actually supposed to be running errands and have to go) and in my reply, I had a minor meltdown, ranting about needing to be me. (It's in the Member's Forum, "gayest common denominator.") And TragicRabbit's trying to fix me up on a double date. The first time I've been out and uh, out, with other gays...like me. Did I say that? "Like me?" Arrgh. I'm trying not to get cold feet. Oh, frell, there I go again. TragicRabbit, Ben Dover, everybody, please try to put up with me. This coming out stuff has me quietly on an emotional roller coaster. It's gonna get better, blast it. I want to be out. Grr. Hmm. A few lines before I go off on those errands. Haircut, for one. (No, it's not *that* bad, just needs cut.) "I'll come to your...emotional rescue." -- The Rolling Stones (of course) "Ball of confusion! That's what the world is today." -- heck, I forget who "This is a land of confusion. This is the world we live in And these are the hands we?re given Use them and let?s start trying To make it a place worth living in. Ooh superman where are you now" -- Genesis, "Land of Confusion" { Dang. I did it again. Perfectly good, fun thread and I go and add a downer. Jeez. Please put up with me, guys. I'm actually improving, it's just really hard to tell. }

Oops. I was thinking of "Just Hit Send." I guess I'm tired and preoccupied about friends in Florida. My apologies to all concerned. "The Least of These" is an excellent story. You'll like it, Tien. Welcome to the forum, too.

My sincere apologies to all the lonely, misunderstood cucumbers out there. I'm sure if I were a cucumber, I wouldn't relish a bashing either. :roll:

I commented on it in the Drama Club thread, in the New Writers section. Parenthetically, hypothetically, Proverbially, adverbially, Fabulously farcically ::drops thesaurus:: Well, it was pretty great.

Hi, Tien. Also try clearing your browser cache, that may help. Sometimes, though, accessing on another day will help. The webmaster@iomfats.org may be able to help you too, and if there is a file problem, if it isn't just you, he needs to know that.

I still owe comments here, but someone's been chatting me up. :) Not objecting, just hard to read other stuff or write my usual officious comments while otherwise occupied. I just read Drama Club 2, the spoof. Eegad! Gadzooks! Forsooth! And other pseudo-Shakespearean archaic exclamations. You mean *gasp* Angel and Gene and all of them, they're, they're actors...no, wait, they're worse than that, they're, they're just...pretend, imaginary, figments, fig leaves? Oh, woe is me! Oh cold, cruel world! Oh, oh, (line! wtf's my next line!) Sorry, the blue dailies haven't come back from that TR guy. I hear he runs around in an ascot and a beret smoking with a cigarette holder and wearing a monocle. Which, you know, clashes with the hot-pink thong.... Line! Line! Where the hell's my marker? Someone fix that light, it isn't making me look blue enough. Blue huffs and storms offstage, mumbling about his measly kickback for writing all those gushy comments.... :twisted: :grin: Oh, and I need a whole new pack of drippy red pens and rainbow highlighters for all that poofing, uh, proofing! And somebody get me that reference cookbook on rabbit stew, rabbit flamb?, langs de lapin, and like that there. And carrot cake! I demand carrot cake! Carrot salad! Glazed carrots in an orange-spice glaze! Phillistines! Thespians! ...Mercifully, Hoodster happens along and hits Blue over the head, leaving him defenseless for Perry and Jesse's revenge for all those mean comments about ellipsis and dash fetishes and...and all that other stuff. I mean, how could Blue be so horrid, so cruel, all that ugly proofing stuff. Anal-retentive jerk! But P&J were on a filming break, and they'd get the Drama Club cast to help. It would all start with something really awful: Uptight Blue was gonna wake up naked in a very questionable position. That'd get him for all those comments!

What books, magazines, or other in-print things do you like, fiction, non-fiction, news, whatever? I'm thinking particularly gay-themed, but it could be anything that you like. Gay science fiction? Vonda McIntyre has had gay characters, treated as just normal. C.J. Cherryh's Cyteen has two of its main chars. who are rather quietly gay. -- But I recommend any of her books, she's one of my favorite authors. There are other authors out there with notable stuff, I just can't recall much right this sec.

Will have to put it on my to-do list, but other stuff on the list has priority at the moment. -- Still, I'd love to see some good s.f. other than just WBMS' Alone by Myself. I've tried to read some of the s.f. on Nifty, but most of them are just, well, bleh. .hack//escape held my interest for a while, then somehow lost me. There was another with a good start that never got a second chapter, I'll have to look it up, can't recall the title. It had a character, possibly a soon-to-be shape-shifter or just a lonely, confused, gay boy, who sat on his roof and saw a shape move into the snowy treeline. Seems like the shape was, unknown to the watching boy, a neighbor who was a shape-shifter and gay. :shrugs: 'Bout all I remember from it. I'd love to see some good s.f. that handles gay characters. ("Handles" gay characters? ::rolls eyes:: Heheh, that one snuck up on me.)

I'm not sure I stopped laughing the whole time. I loved it. The proofer in me understands the incomplete sentences for the conversational train of thought. There were a few boo-boos with "its" instead of "it's" and one other typo that I'll alert his Bunny-ness to. Very glad TragicRabbit's back. Put me down for a cat pin. I went to school with a guy named Tom. Think he was prob'ly gay. Would be happy to see him again some time, friend or...hm, maybe more. Oh, sorry, was this mike on? ...He didn't look like Tom in the story, though, but did look veddy nice. Oh, the story. Heheheh. Great job of showing an instant, full-on, humongous crush. Also nice about all the narrator's idiosyncracies and self-anxieties. Loved the stream of consciousness internal monologue and humor. I think he's been reading too many of my posts! Hmm. Need more predefined smilies around here. Must read up on that. That was a sweet short story. My shippy self liked it.

Yay! I got an e-mail from Grasshopper last night. :bounce: I've got a lot of reading to do to catch up on the story. Neat! BTW, folks, continue your thoughts and prayers for Mitch and family. Also be thinking about Grasshopper, and hoping that the current hurricane will *not* hit Florida again.

This thread might should be in the Readers Rule section. I haven't gotten nearly that far in Just Hit Send yet; looking forward to it. Does this mean Grasshopper might be back online? Yay, I hope so. Hmm. That you, aj, or somebody else? Just remember to log in. You know, just hit login ;)

*** SPOILER SPACE -- This post discusses part 5, so if you haven't read it yet, wait until after you've read part 5 to read this post! *** *** SPOILER SPACE -- Don't want to spoil anything for the fans. *** Well, I thought he handled it pretty well. He had me believing they were headed for derailment and breakup. I think he achieved his point about relationships, assumptions, breakups, rapprochement (reconciliation, lit. re-approach, not reproach). I didn't feel it was roughly written, either. I'm still impressed with Ryan's writing talent. And hey, he is young and learning how to write, and he is in college. So if it fulfills a class assignment while he's at it...go Ryan. Was it carefully plotted? Pretty much. Could I anticipate which direction it was going? I knew it could head in one of a few directions. In that short space, there's not a lot of room to budge. It didn't seem clumsy, like one might expect of a new writer, which impressed me. If Ryan wants to experiment with plotting, that's cool. Was it misdirecting the reader? Yes and no. Jaylin believed it; the reader believed it. Is that misdirecting, given the chapter's end? Alright, yes, but again, isn't that what the chapter's about, is how they drift away and nearly lose their relationship, then rejoin? Just IMHO. That's my pocket change, lint extra. Maybe I should keep quiet and wait for others to reply first? Perhaps I should give that point some thought. -- Hey, somebody else post, huh?

First Point: Tragic? Those guys genuinely love their wives and kids. It's unfortunate that they didn't realize or couldn't open up sooner, but I can't and won't judge them. After all, I've been stuck in the closet for a long time. Confusion? Oh, you betcha, nearly any question and self-doubt you could think of. Your feelings aren't some light switch that turns on like a bright neon sign one day that says, "STRAIGHT" or "GAY" or "FLEXIBLE." -- Your feelings develop over time, even as an adult. Second Point: How do you really know if you're gay, straight, or what? Here are a few questions to think about. Which do you think about more, guys, girls, or both equally? * Do you mostly think about guys or girls? * Who do you find more attractive sexually or romantically? * Who do you think about mostly when you fantasize? * Who do you think of when you play with yourself? (Admit it, you do that.) * Who do you dream about? * When you're just running around doing whatever, do you notice guys or girls? Do you suddenly notice someone as attractive? * What about in situations like at the beach, the lockerroom, or with a roommate? * When you look at pictures, erotic or not, who do you like? * When you have physical contact (not necessarily sexual) *who* (male or female) turns you on? Those are some of the usual questions that can tell you your preferences. Your answers to each question may not match. You may be more attracted to certain friends. That doesn't mean you're one thing or the other, it just means you have more varied or stronger feelings for those friends. Maybe once in a while, you see someone and feel attracted. That also doesn't tell you for sure, it just means you found that particular person attractive. Um, just to be clear, any male is going to be capable of a physical reaction with enough stimulation, whether they want to or not. If you read something like Desmond Morris' Naked Ape, you'll find that our human reactions are basic and similar to other species. So even in non-sexual situations, guys respond the way their equipment is designed to. So what tells you for sure? What are most of your answers saying? But more importantly, what do you feel deep down? Are you still confused? Yes, you might be. Of course it's confusing. Sex is so basic and deep down that it's part of everything from our most animal-like instincts to our highest thoughts and feelings. Because it's so basic and so interwoven, it's difficult to understand. Yep, it goes right up there with all those other big life questions. Third Point: It can be tough to make sense of your feelings if they disagree with what you believe and what the people you care about believe. It doesn't make you a bad person. If you have questions, find help answering them, online and in person. If you are troubled about things, get help. There are people who want to help.

A little techie humor, maybe? :roll: -- But the tags don't work that way on forums. :!: -- I'll give you props for it though. You asked nicely, though, and there's no meanness there, only a little cleverness. And since your question deserves a serious answer, I'll try to give you one. Why worry about labels and pigeonholes? Whether you like girls, guys, or both is between you and whoever you go out with (and whatever deity you believe in) and not really anyone else's place to comment on. Only you truly know what you like and don't like. Maybe you're not sure if you like something or not comfortable if you did like something. That's OK, you'll figure yourself out if you're honest with yourself. You seem to be tolerant enough and classy enough to call it "oral pleasure," and you said the guy was your friend. That's appreciated. If you didn't like what you two did together, that's OK. Did you telll your friend that nicely and honestly? If you do look at gay porn and like it, well, OK. Does that make you gay? Not necessarily. I'm not weaseling out of answering, I'm just saying only you know for sure. The scientific studies (Kinsey, and probably others) say that most people aren't 100% straight or 100% gay; most people are somewhere in between. That's the "Kinsey scale." This can change at different times in your life. It's typical for teens to experiment as part of learning about themselves. When you're older, you might have different feelings. When you're lonely, you might have other feelings. Friendship is one kind of love; it usually isn't sexual, but it can move in and out of sexual feelings too. Maybe that seems weird to you, but it happens. In straight relationships, the truest love is when the couple are friends as well as lovers. Hey, if you wanted a serious answer, that's my best shot. I'm sorry if that isn't the clear yes or no you were looking for. Only you know how you feel, and that may take some sorting out for you to know for sure. My short answer would be that if you didn't like what your friend and you did, then hey, you didn't like it. If you like looking at gay porn, then maybe you're curious or maybe you'd like to try something. Maybe you simply are lonely for a close friend or mentor, and you're not even interested in sex, you just want someone to talk to and be close to and share normal, healthy affection like a pat on the back (attaboy, buddy) or a hug (glad to see ya, friend). There's nothing abnormal or sexual about that. Everybody needs a hug or a pat on the back and everybody needs friends. Hey, if you do want more than that, something intimate, that's your business. Practice safe sex. Be good to the people you're with, whatever their relationship with you is. Hope that helps.

Welcome, BoyWriter! I read the 3rd ch. after making my post. I want more. I agree, the chs. could be longer; just join 'em together. The "Readers Rule" section is partly to suggest new stories for inclusion on Dude's site. Everything's kind of new, but there are some lively discussions already. Every story has to intro. its characters and setting. It's how that's done and what the author does with it then and after that makes the difference. I liked how BoyWriter did both. Without at least a line or two, the reader is going to feel like he/she is imagining disembodied talking heads. Intro'ing a new char. like Jamie was isn't a deus ex machina anyway. A DxM is an implausible, sudden way to get the heroes out of trouble without them doing anything. The "new boy" idea is entirely plausible. Been there, but we didn't get to the "benefits" stage. (grumbles) Personally, I loved the scene where they meet, a nice compare and contrast between the characters, both confused, and the romantic description. Yes, I'm shippy. I'm new at all this. Maybe I should start by cruising Galveston at dawn and dusk.... Hmm. Say, that's not a bad idea at all.... :idea: Keep up the good writing, BoyWriter! Oh, and you might like TragicRabbit's nice quotes of plays, poems, and songs. He writes Drama Club.

:snerk: Ben Dover, thanks for that belly laugh. You have a looney sense of humor. Keep it up!

Does this mean gaydar has a scanning frequency? I think my gaydar needs a major overhaul anyway. Doesn't seem to work quite right. Could be pilot error, though. :|

[*]The formatting is simple to fix, just a problem with the HTML. That would clear up most of the problem right there and make it much easier to follow. (See below.) [*]The other things I commented on, the cucumber in ch. 1, and the attitudes of the two main characters and a couple of the teachers, are not necessarily minuses. I personally thought the cuke was a bit much, but that's just me. The 'tudes are true to life and do fit with the characters. At least it's distinctive and original. As the story goes along, it's clear there's more there. [*]I thought it was worth mentioning; thus, the thread. Fix the formatting and it's a candidate, I'd say. That, or give time to age a bit to see how it goes. ----- The formatting: I looked in the HTML. The proper returns are there, but it needs the right HTML tags in the right way to show up the way it's intended. -- BTW, I'm posting this below not to criticize but so they and anyone else can benefit. [*]Paragraphs should start with <p> and end with </p> tags. Currently, the closing </p> tags are missing. (This is probably their software's fault, not the author's or editor's.) [*]For the headlines signaling POV changes (Lucas: or Jamie: ) those should be tagged as a headline, such as <h3>Lucas:</h3>. Right now, they have bold tags outside of a paragraph (tech. no-no), or no tags at all (uh-oh). [*]For the speaker changes with dialogue, those need to be in separate paragraphs surrounded by <p>...</p>. Currently, there is a return in the text, but that's not enough for the HTML. The browser basically ignores that, treats it as a space, and looks for the tags. I think what's happened is that the co-authors and the editor aren't all up to speed with HTML after it's output by their word processor or web page editor, or they don't all have the same skill level. -- Not a problem at all. -- The Visual QuickStart Guides on HTML or XHTML are good, quick, and useful for any skill level, high school and up. It's plain they know the grammar rules, they're just getting used to the formatting. Hmm. There's at least one other story by those authors, I can't recall the title at the moment. Seems like the character was a surly Brit schoolboy named Rhys (nothing to do with the author being Rhys, natch).

Walking and Thinking http://www.nifty.org/nifty/gay/highschool/...g-and-thinking/ Three ch. so far. The first two have been really nice. Great start. Slowly building relationships and characters, nice to see that kind of start. The supporting chars. show promise too, and so far, we have only assumptions that the two main characters are, or will be, gay. The author is good at style and mechanics. -- No, there've been no repairmen in the story. :) The song lyrics quoted are interesting. Haven't heard the band's stuff, though. Yes, it's a real group that's quoted.

aj and RPnSoCal had mentioned goo-goo-muck http://www.nifty.org/nifty/gay/highschool/...l/goo-goo-muck/ in the Everything's Eventual thread. Bonus points for an original and eye-catching title, but I have no idea what it's referring to or what it has to do with the story. Maybe I'm outta the loop. I read the 4 chapters so far. Hmm. Wasn't craxy about the 1st ch. "Whoa, major 'tude, dude." Really, I prefer my veggies in salads and stir-fry and like that. Ch. 1 was nearly a Bail Point. Gave me the impression the two chars. weren't your first class guys. OK, it does get better with the other chapters. There are some funny moments and a great car chase scene. Seems like there could be some promise here. Blue slips on his proofer's visor and markup pen. (No, Blue doesn't actually wear a visor for that. Doofus.) OK, these guys seem to have good spelling and grammar, but guys, the rule is that you have a new paragraph every time the speaker changes. Instead, we get dialogue exchanges all in one paragraph, and it's hard to follow speaker changes. Fix that, and a big problem is solved. Once in ch. 3 and a few times in ch. 4, The p.o.v. changes again, but the headline for Lucas: or Jamie: doesn't get formatted, it stays within the text. If the co-authors or their editor will fix that, it'll be easier to follow the story. It's easy to fix and it's a small thing, but it sure aids readability. For inclusion on the site? I dunno. Theme music for the story, probably Pink Floyd's "We don't need no education," and some steamy jazz saxophone. Oh, and teachers may have the urge to send the guys to detention for the 'tudes. Trouble is, I can remember a couple of teachers with attitudes like those in the story. There was a nice zinger from the English teacher in the story. "You can't use those words in class unless you can tell me the derivation." Heheh, my dictionary gets credit for giving the derivation, but then gets prim and notes that "details are uncertain due to lack of early examples of attestation." I could swear I read somewhere that it was a perfectly proper Old English word, suitable for polite company. Apparently, it really is cognate with those Fokker airplanes, "that which strikes, penetrates, copulates."

Part 11, ~Blue comments: The tunes and quotes are great. I kept expecting Gene would discover Trey when he picked up Michael, or there'd be a call or IM about it. I wonder when and how we'll find out about Trey. TR develops the GSA line a little. Gene and Michael are together, which makes its own comment on their relationship, and gets us in Gene's head the whole time. Poor Gene doesn't realize yet that detached bit doesn't work, long-term or short-term. Working 24/7 doesn't either. Hopefully, he'll figure that out, he's a bright guy. Funny, Spock's cool Vulcan logic outsider self helped me get through most of junior high, except I didn't try to be Spock. (Raises eyebrow and does salute with either hand.) "Any Trek but ENT." I get the feeling TR has gotten things set up so everyone will be affected by whatever's happened to Trey. Tony and Jaye are going to have a rough time with this. The upcoming GSA is likely to be eventful. -- It was only a few months back that a local school district's court case made it law that GSA's have to be accepted. No criticisms or comments here, otherwise. This chapter was building things up and kind of quiet. A few song titles that might be appropriate coming up: "Gimme Shelter" -- Rolling Stones; "Shout" -- Songs From the Big Chair -- Tears for Fears; "Land of Confusion" -- Genesis; "Hold On" -- Good Charlotte; "Everybody Hurts" -- R.E.M.; I'd say Bobby needs to sing "Perfect" by Simple Plan to his parents, but Ryan already used the song in One Life. I personally disagree with the first two lines of "New Test Leper" by R.E.M., off New Adventures In Hi-Fi, but everything else, and the Letterman Show it's based on, you tell 'em, Michael Stipes.

@ aj: Trey was hurt, not Jaye. For some reason, the others haven't gotten the news yet. Possibly next chapter? @ ALL: Yes, that's true. I overstated my point. (Sorry about that, guys.) You're right that he's already begun to feel that way in his friendship with Jaye. He's smart enough and sensitive enough that those "benefits" have probably always been affection and friendship as well as just fun. It's just that up until now, he hasn't felt true love. Jaye has been his best friend, but not his romantic lover. ----- Baggage? Heh, I'd have been floored if anyone had asked me out or said they loved me. If a guy asked me, unless he was a good friend, I would've thought he was baiting me and looked for the nearest exit, after saying I wasn't gay. If a nicely toned athletic guy who could clearly have any girl he wanted had asked me, I don't think I would've believed him. How could a guy like that be gay? (Hey, I was young, what did I know? I couldn't even figure out myself.) Come to think of it, one classmate did pester me with annoying questions one morning in P.E. I thought he was just being a jerk. Now I realize he may have been curious or interested. He wasn't really being ugly about it. -- Aw, come on, wasn't I gay, did I pluck my eyebrows, did I wear nail polish, and a few others, all of which aggravated me, because the only one that was true was that I wasn't sure if I was gay or not. Not that I'd tell him that. -- So I guess I either avoided getting humiliated or I missed out on someone who liked me. Hmm. Although if he was genuinely interested, looks like he would've asked somewhere else than sitting in line for roll call in P.E. -- OK, I'm confused. And I just wandered way off topic into personal stuff again. Crud. What *is* it with me? Um, little help here, is this normal in coming out? I've never been so self-absorbed in my life, and it seems like every time I post, I keep trying to do a "this is my (gay) life" thing. -- I think I'm going to have to write it down offline just so it doesn't keep bugging me. Sheesh. ::very frustrated with self ~Blue::

Goo Goo Muck: Haven't read it. ----- Everything's Eventual: Well, Dude's and trent's comments made me think some about the story. I don't know why the author hasn't added a new chapter. Did he see the comments here and get discouraged? :shrugs: That would be a shame. Since it's been a long time since the story was updated, perhaps it's a moot point. I did think moving Rick out was odd. Maybe it's so Miguel gets a shot. Char. dev. -- Ryan resonates with me, perhaps the artistic and introverted aspects, and Scott as the younger brother really is done well, imho. Travis has life to him, and so do Robin and Miguel. Mitch is presented strongly but stereotypically until his problem is revealed. The others? Hmm. Yes, they need more. Ryan and Scott's parents are supportive, but there are unexplored undercurrents about step-family issues there. Two characters too closely named, that's a mistake. Too confusing. I feel like Mitch has more story there. Is there more as he deals with his trauma and adjusts to the kind of loving family he has no idea how to take? I'd think so. We don't have any hint that he's had other (sexual) abuse, so I'll presume that's not at issue. But he'd still have trouble figuring out his cousin Ryan, Travis, and the others. Trent said it wasn't realistic and it was chicken of Ryan not to make a move. Hmm. I disagree strongly with that, but it took me a long while to figure out what/if I should say in reply. With a couple of new comments, I'll try to respond. From the story setup, Ryan had just recently come out at his old school, and how he was received is part of why they moved. His parents also seemed to want to put him in a new place to force him to find new friends. He's been basically holed up in his room all the time, with hardly any friends, even before he came out. Ryan has just moved there, and he doesn't know any of his new friends well at all. The story has him first uncertain about Rick's feelings towards guys, and then has Ryan unsure whether Rick returns his feelings. That seems reasonable. Yes, it takes him a while, and maybe that's unrealistic, since they're both supposed to be openly/mostly openly gay. But some people just take longer, especially when they're inexperienced. Some people are very shy. Some people are late bloomers socially, or may not yet have those strong feelings or physical reactions in public, even though their bodies are mature enough, and they might have strong feelings and responses privately. Does that make it unrealistic or make Ryan chicken? Maybe not. It isn't news that guys get physically or verbally abused for being gay or being accused of it. Overall, yes, it's a bit odd that there's been barely even any mention that characters might be actively having sex, since several are paired off. Hey, it isn't a requirement. The relationships and how they grow are a requirement, though. I would still like to see the story continue, but unless it does and finishes, then it wouldn't be a candidate for inclusion on the site here. I still like it, critiques and all. -- And if the author did/does read this, hey, finish the story, wouldja? Even harsh critcism shows someone liked the story enough to comment on what they thought it needed.

Wrote my reply while TragicRabbit was writing his and posted it before mine. Rabbit, don't think because of criticism that you have to revise anything or everything, please. You'll drive yourself (and us) nuts doin' that! Then you'd be eating strained carrots, and that's just...eww! I have a different opinion on Angel in Ch. 10; see my reply above. The sex scenes? They seemed more integral to the story this time. (Integral in the math. sense of integrated, part of the whole, as well as the primary sense of a necessary part of the story.) And, ahem, If that had been me with Michael, pick one of these: 1. OR: Oops, heheh, guess I need to go change briefs.... :oops: 2. OR: 'Scuse me, gotta go take care of something... 3. OR: Arrgh! Build me up like that and then befuddle me outta the mood? Michael, dude, if you wanted to make the point, couldn't you have made it without making out? That's not fair, Michael. :x *However,* I'm not saying it's a fault! I think you did a bang-up job (pun?) with that scene. Sure gave Angel something to think about. (Gave me something to think about too, if I were in that situation, I might react in any of those ways, and I'm not sure which I'd choose.) Your handling of the sex scenes has gotten better overall. Not sure if I'd want more or less.