blue

From DC17, quoted: Hmm. Portuguese. Vai has to be, you go; tomar, to take. But 'no' could be "in the," "our/us," or "no/not." In this case, I'm guessing it's "in the." And "c?" is...well, the English version would be "cu**" is my guess. -- At least, that's my guess. Marina is clearly telling Matty something like, "f--- me" or "go f--- yourself," if I'm guessing right. ?De veras? ?Tengo razo'n? Freakin' Windows keyboard, it makes entering non-English text a royal pain. Grrr. ----- Great to see a new chapter! And for Matty, "hardware-boy," well, bud, defrost, already. Is it really necessary to piss off all your potential friends? (Sorry, not yet all the way through the chapter, just to the start of the GSA mtg.) The piercing's aren't my thing, but :shrugs: to each his own. He sounds like he'd be nice minus the major 'tude and er, nicer looking without the body jewelry. Ah well. -- I think he'll grow on me. Something nice about him even so. -- From the text, and prev. refs., sounds like Matty has reasons to be kinda ticked at the world. Oh, and kudos to Angel for giving Ryan what-for earlier. ----- :blinks: Blue slaps forehead, figuratively. Crud. Now I even remember reading the ref. in the prev. chapter...and when I began reading this chapter last night. Jeez, just 'cause it's been a while, and I forget the ref. that Matty's hearing impaired. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Ooh, I could kick myself. -- Sorry, folks, you've just seen a guy with low-vision and with a couple of hearing-impaired friends and relatives...totally miss it. Duh. D'oh. I'm a dufus. :oops: Well, I probably would've realized fine in person. Still feel kinda dufus-like. OK, touch?, TR, bien fait. (Bien hecho.)

Heh, don't sweat it, EleCivil. I figured you were a guy. I've had that happen too, on a science fiction board, and seen others misidentified. S'pose it just goes to show there's nothing particularly "male" or "female" about writing. (shrugs) Blue is male, and happy that way. Apparently, Blue likes the idea so much, his equipment likes, ah, similar equipment. (grin) -- And yay, now I'm mostly OK with that. Not all the way out yet, but working toward it, working through my issues...sorta sneaking up on it.

So, solitude is the father of plot-making? Woo-hoo, looking forward to chapter 5. ...And if that pic is you, you look a little like a former college roommate from many moons ago... except he was straight. Nice friend, though.

I hadn't realized 3 and 4 were up here and I just read them. It's going to take me a while longer to think on the story, in any literary criical mode. So far, I'm simply moved to say, wow, that's a good story, with strong characterizations and plot, and it's very moving. Again, I think you've made a smart move by making the central character a straight guy who's thrown into confusion at the plight of Adam, and having to work through many of the preconceptions. However, the little story of the joey gives an important clue about David's innermost character. I figure we'll learn more about just what Adam is going through as the story goes on. I'll put my critic's hat on eventually and give it a look-see. :)

I'm already owned by a cat.... I have this feeling what you really meant went right over my head. :whoosh: Maybe enlightenment via PM?

The story's well written and thought provoking. It's also a tough read in places, and some of the subject matter is difficult or controversial. My only complaint is to wonder why it took so long for them to wonder about the coincidence of Tim's name. I would've thought they'd ask in case he was somehow related, if nothing else. I'm quite impressed by the story and have been giving it some thought. If a story is good enough to make you really stop and think, that's quite an achievement. I'll check out his other story.

lol -- Thanks for the votes, guys! :hugs: :oops: But we do need to get back on topic. Jamie's liable to sic that dog on us. Luckily, I'm good with animals. :hugs:

If you do decide to do something more with it, I'd be tempted to leave the original as a prologue or separate piece. Like you say, it's tough to know what would keep the original intact and do it justice. Any of those options you listed might work, but you have to feel like it's good enough to pursue. Heh, yeah, I think that might turn into a really interesting Sunday School session. Miss Sally might find herself answering some very good questions! The nice thing is, that a self-contained piece like Dear God means you could take any angle you wanted, *if* a few angles struck you as good material. -- You may feel, though, that the short story says all you needed to say there. I understand your p.o.v. as the author, you have to feel anything more's strong enough to stand up *with* the original. I don't know what I'd do in that case, either.

Bonsoir et bienvenu, Jamie. My French lit. survey prof. would be horrified if I admitted I've forgotten Zola, but I recently realized how rusty my French and Spanish have gotten, and pulled out my books to review. -- I'll look for Zola to read, too. -- If there's an excerpt in one of my texts from that particular Zola passage, that will tell me a great deal about just how much I've forgotten. Ah well, if so, it'll all be new again, then, won't it? :D De nouveau, au moins. Sorry, I went on a tangent there. Back on topic. I'll happily give the story a chance, I've read longer descriptions, and like you say, each writer has his own style; it's part of the charm. Oh, and btw, I'm slowly moving out of the closet. I'm keeping that sig until I'm more fully out, partly as a reminder to myself. -- I've gotten some nice answers like yours, and they're appreciated.

Hey, Pecman. OK, your explanation clarifies some. Plus, I've been more stressed than usual the past week, so I was a little more touchy than I should be or usually am. And hey, if EleCivil's good with it, then who am I to object? It's tough to know, regarding plot or character, what's too much and what's not enough. If those are four long to medium chapters, then yes, something about the characters and plot needs to be apparent. Not that you'd want to be able to predict it all (far from it) but both need to have some direction even as early in as four chapters. With L&L, the character development is really good, and the plot is quietly building. I think I tend to like character a bit more or a different range of plot speeds, maybe. To each his own. Plenty room for various opinions. Hmm. I left off of Confusion Sets In, I'll have to give it another go. (I think my reason for bailing was either circling around or excessive (IMHO) drug use, not sure. I'll look at it again. Could be I'm confusing it with another story at the moment; if so, sorry.)

Comments? 1. This is a great, poignant short story. 2. If Graeme decides to do more with this, I think it'd be good also. 3. If that Brad is anything like the Brad I knew, well, he'd be worth it. -- No, nothing happened. :thud: Brad. :swoon: Crush, Blue? Huh? Wha? 4. I know a Sally, but I bet she's better adjusted. Gonna find out soon enough.

Ah, apparently, this is a different Jamie. For now, I'm going to guess this is "a boy and his something" maybe more than a dog, maybe connected to each other or separated in two... or something else intriguing. I'm really not going to wonder what some boy in rags is doing with a gold chain and amulet, I'm really not. (grin) But I'd guess there's a story reason for that, and hey, other stories do it. I'm hooked and eager to see the rest of the story. Um, I do have one mild criticism: There was maybe a little too much time spent getting up and sorting himself out. Things started moving along more, though, when the dog came onto the scene. (I would've just consolidated the first paragraphs a little.) I'm intrigued. We have an amnesiac boy, a cur with serious mileage, and those mysterious "they" that show up for the cliffhanger. I'm all for a well-built alternate world and a good sf&f book.

Waah! I miss Angel and Gene and all the rest of the drama club guys and girls. -- I hope you're OK, TR. :big-hug:

There are two stories on DeweyWriter's forum you might consider: He Sang To Me, by Oz, in progress; Dear God, by aussie_gw, a poignant short story; no idea yet whether he plans anything further with it, but it's a lovely standalone;

As stated in the intro, some chapters are currently hosted on DeweyWriter's forum. I'll have some comments as I can get to them. It's refreshing to see things through the straight characters' p.o.v., and to see the issues of a gay char. who's been kicked out, dealt with.

Pecman, please be a little more gentle when you have a criticism. The writer has already responded in the thread. I'd hope he'd continue to feel welcome. First, most writers are new or developing writers. Second, the plot is there, although it may not move with the lightning-quick edits currently fashionable in the visual media. (That is, after Star Wars, et al.) And what the heck, it's entertaining and has some thought to it and hasn't beat me over the head with a Big Giant Message yet, nor improbable nor constant sex. I find all that refreshing. Just IMHO.

Another point on science fiction and fantasy, particularly fanfics: I like science fiction (a lot). Sci-fi with gay themes or chiefly gay sci-fi has to be good science fiction first, and the gay elements should be worthwhile too. Don't stick a couple of ho-hum, nothing to say, gay characters in a poorly done pulp sci-fi plot, and call it good gay sf&f. Either or both will make me bail. However, there are good published sf&f books with gay themes and chars. out there and some good web-published stuff too. (I've gotten recommendations on a couple of online authors I haven't read yet.) On fanfics, those are an immediate bail for me if the established characters are out of character. I can't see some characters as being gay, sorry. Some of them, I can believe they might be up for something, at least occasionally. Fanfic has to be true to the series it is set within. -- There are some excellent fanfics out there, too, slash (gay pairings) or not.

I notice EleCivil has joined us. Welcome, bud. Has anyone noticed Leaves and Lunatics by EleCivil, currently on Nifty? It has been strictly relationship-oriented so far, with an insecure young teen as the central character, who knows his feelings, but is afraid to act on them. I am not sure if the title might be a song or poem reference. All in all, I kinda like the story. It's still in progress, with four chapters so far.

Coney, eh? I have this vague feeling TR is talking about more than just a day at the amusement park. But wait, didn't you both have a hot dog? It was Coney Island, after all. Really nice poem, clever on multiple levels.

How do you think foreign language should be handled in stories, if the need arises for a specific character? Should a translation be given with the original? Should only English be used, with a cue that it's in another language? I don't particularly have anything planned, but I do have something mainstream that I'm busy procrastinating on, which includes some French, so I thought I'd put the question to the forum. Also, I've started reviewing my Spanish and French a little. It looks like I may not be quite as rusty as I was afraid I was, but I need to practice both, build vocab., and do real-life listening and speaking more. That's easy for Spanish, here, I just have to overcome the shyness I seem to have gotten into about it. French, though, is going to be harder. Parlez-vous fran?ais, fluentement ou non-fluentement? J'appr?cierai le pratique. -- J'aimerai bien apprender l'idiome Cajun ou Cr?ole, aussi bien que la canadienne ou parisienne. Ce importe quoi. Bleh, isn't there any easier keyboard input method for Windows? Something sensible, like the Mac or MS Word uses? The forum won't accept all the alt-key-number combinations, and I hate memorizing them, but I'll have to. Lousy Microsoft, if they were gonna "borrow" something, why didn't they "borrow" the Mac keyboard entry method? Alt-0241, my butt!

:arrow: The Camille and Doug storyline: It's not too much at all. She's struggling with a real issue. She's a strong female character, good, there aren't enough of 'em in fiction anywhere. Doug is great, a straight guy who's got it together and comfortable with his feelings and his imagination. Go Doug! As an added bonus, they support their gay friends. It's also important to see that. :arrow: Ryan: Yes, he's icky and lousy and hard to write. You've given him some interior motivations, so he's not a lousy character in the story-structure sense. We see some of why he's a sociopath. So, like AJ said, go through a decontamination filter afterwards. Just the fact that he isn't so two-dimensional (or one-dimensional) is fine. Regarding the "villain you love to hate" and the "sympathetic or not entirely bad villain" or the "subtlely villainous villain" -- those are really interesting types. But you've set up Ryan (and Bobby's parents) as big antagontist forces, embodying huge problems that affect us as gays. Nothing prevents you from adding their evil or quasi-evil minions and lackeys. You know, spear-carrier extras or supporting cast. ----- Unrelated, but I had to mention: I got a big kick out of Michael telling Angel, so matter of fact, "I understand Spanish, Angel," then Angel wondering what he'd said. Good for 'em both. Speakin' in tongues or doin' stuff with tongues, during, heh, gotta like that. :D

There are several threads with comments on Ryan's stories in various sections, so check 'em all out. Some great points in them. -- I've been amazed at a few authors, to find out they're teens. That much talent and activism is rare, teen or adult. It's good to see teens who use it. Many of the authors around the web do handle some really tough issues really well. A few of them are on Dude's site. Others are around on other sites and forums. They deserve a lot of respect for it, and I hope they'll keep on. When you talk about those everyday issues, there are all kinds of things to that. I'm assuming you mean the whole range. There's everything from how do you handle being gay at work or school to how do you handle it at home, with relatives and friends, to the daily relationship with your significant other. And yes, there's lots of story material there. You seem to be saying, OK, once Johnny has come out, now what? How does his character go on in life, what are the challenges, and how does he deal with them? I think that's been handled to an extent in some stories, but it's a big topic, which, incidentally, we each have to go through in real life. So there's a long time to cover story-wise. I get to answer that very question, somehow, pretty soon. "OK, once I'm out, now what the **** do I do?" (But first I get to deal with coming out.) I think the reason the coming out story or the first relationship story is so common is because it's so obviously powerful and important in our minds, that realization of being different, that this isn't a little thing or something there's a turning back from. ----- I wouldn't know how to write about a transgendered character, because I don't know nearly enough about them. I've seen and read a little, but that doesn't give me a lot to go on. I'd want to know more to do such people justice as a character, even as a supporting cast member in a story. AwesomeDude (the site) has primarily been about male characters, from the name of the site. But the slogan says, gay and bi young people, i.e., gender-neutral. So, IMHO, that should include lesbian or transgendered characters or any of the other (very real) cases out there. ----- Other issues: I have not seen many stories that really discussed some of the issues I see and read and hear about in real life. In just the past two months, on message boards, I have become very acquainted with what was before only a statistic: teen depression and suicide. I certainly understand it, from my own feelings, growing up. But it's different, seeing it play out on a message board, where teens are hurting in realtime, and where, dammit, I can't reach through the modem and offer a real-life shoulder to lean on. What do I say to some teen, when nothing unlocked me as a teen, to deal with it? -- Well, anyway, I've gotten sidetracked from the main topic. My point with that is, what about all those teens out there, afraid or unable, for whatever reasons, to do more than surf the web or post on forums? They have all kinds of stories, some just lonely, some abused, some confused...everything. There are people here, including teens like the Mail Crew and adult health workers and teachers and mentors, and just plain other teens and adults, who support them. What about teens who have to go to shelters or support groups or just a GSA meeting at school, for some peace. Worse, what about the teens who have nowhere else but a shelter or the streets? Those kids (excuse me, y'all) those youth, forced to grow up too fast, have real lives out there. I don't see many stories that really, truthfully deal with that. Too many stories are either some fantasy or some sick nightmarish thing, if they were real. (Worse, some of those nightmarish things do happen.) -- But I know that right now, there are youth in my city living on the streets, or, if they're lucky in some bed in a shelter. Many of those youth are doing things to survive. -- And they deserve to have stories told about them. What about the volunteers that help out teens like that? What about the success stories and the failures? Some of those teens make it out of the streets and out of all that goes with that, to a new life back in society. Some of them stay on the streets. Where are their stories? What about people like me, who've spent years and years in the closet and come out? I keep reading, and I only see glimpses of characters somewhat like me, as a pre-teen or teen or adult. Yet there are people out there much like me writing these stories, so where are they and where am I, in fiction-land, as our past or present selves? By the way, some of us are gay and have a handicap or physical condition. That carries with it its own set of issues. There are a few stories out there that deal with that with a lot of sensitivity. What about, hang on to your hats, HIV/AIDS patients? Yes, those stories may seem like automatic downers. But there must be something to learn in there. And they are us, our friends and loved ones, whether we want to face it or not. Oh, one or two more: What about those volunteers and friendly, supportive people, straight or not? What about those health care workers and counselors and religious leaders who are willing to help out? (Or for that matter, the ones that don't?) Those people who help support the GLBT community have seen a lot. They're to be commended. What are their stories? What have they seen? And, and, and ... That's only the tip of the iceberg. ----- So I know there are talented writers out there who've tackled tough issues with lots of insight. Let's widen our subject matter some more with some new stories. And yes, at some point, I'll actually have something completed to submit as a story too. Also, in real life, I'll be volunteering when I can. Right now, I have things on my own plate to resolve. But I still make time for some things, like forums and reading and writing and editing, because, well, this helps me and hopefully it helps others. ----- Whew, marathon post here. I'd better stop, this op/ed thing is turning into a major thesis on its own! :)

Latest Two Parts: Overall, a winner as usual. -- My comments aren't in any kind of order, I'm distracted, sorry. Michael's a big ol' romantic, fond of grand gestures. Angel and Michael do it in the rain, almost. (Could be fun, in warm weather.) Well, I notice a parallel between Camille and Doug and Barbara Kuo's story. So I'm just guessing there's a connection there. Poor Camille, a guy who actually loves her and wants to take responsibility, even if he's totally unprepared, and she can't see it. Girlfriend's got it so wrong. Nice char. bit about Doug and the ducks, speaks to his real character. While Blue generally prefers the mild-mannered approach, Blue would say Bobby shoulda knocked Richard in the jaw...or lower regions. At least Bobby is slightly better than before. (Bobby, get outta there before Nurse Ratched shows up, dude.) (And for the record, I never would've agreed with Exodus, even before.) Interesting interplay between Jaye and Gene; Gene actually seems to be making a little progress, although it's not apparent yet. Ryan, he of the "happiness is a warm gun" -- reminds you of ice cream that's partially thawed and refrozen. -- I'll presume Trey hasn't made a statement to the police yet. -- Looking forward to Ryan in a nice, form-fitting jacket with wraparound sleeves, and rubber-upholstered walls.... How 'bout we send *him* to Exodus. Hmm. I only have one criticism. Angel seems a little in the background or not as active in this chapter. Yes, he had screen time, but, I dunno...hmm, maybe it's because he's not as decisive, since he's confused by early love? I'm not sure that's it. OK, I don't know what's bugging me about Angel here, but it seems like he's not as central as he should be. -- TR, don't over-stress on this. I can't put my finger on what it is. (Heh, unintentional Freudian thing, there, sorry.)

Or you could just go with the Big Bird costume. If you want to include part of a single post, just go to that post and press the Quote button, then just delete the portions you don't need. If you want parts of more than one post, it looks like, for this forum software, you'll have to use plain old copy-and-paste, then surround it with the [ quote="aj" ] ... [ /quote ] tags, as mentioned already. Don't apologize for asking a perfectly good question. :)