CA Proposition 8 Donations

[Richard Norway]

The San Francisco Chronicle is hosting a searchable database to find out who contributed to the California Prop8 ballot initiative. Searches may be done by geographic location.

Here is the link:

http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/

[Trab]

I am fascinated by the number of non-CA residents who contributed, and how much.

[JamesSavik]

I wish that outsiders were prohibited from dumping money into state elections.

When Trent Lott retired, a republican senate seat that had long been "safe" was suddenly in play.

Wicker, a republican congressman gerrymandered out of his district, ran for the open seat VS. one of the worst former governors in Mississippi history, Ronnie Musgrove (know as "old ferret face" to state employees).

The Democratic Senatorial Committee and the Republican Senatorial Committee dumped tons of money into the race- upwards of $30 million. It was one of the ugliest campaigns in memory with mud slung- NOT by the candidates themselves but these committees running adds completely on their own.

Wicker won- not because he was a republican but because Musgrove was an complete idiot and Mississippi voters remembered his one term as governor as one of the most inept in living memory and all of the damned Yankee carpetbagger money in the world couldn't change that.

After all the smoke cleared, Mississippians made up their own mind- outside influence be damned.

[Richard Norway]

James brought up an interesting point by his use of the word 'carpetbaggers.' There was an awful lot of money pouring into California from around the country, from people and businesses that didn't live there. Prop 8 has evidently taken on a national significance.

[Cole Parker]

The following was a headline for a Yahoo! news article today:

Prop 8 supporters sue to keep donor names anonymous

My reaction is, I'd be embarrassed too if it were I had monetarily supported a bigoted proposition like that!

C

[JamesSavik]

Prop 8 supporters sue to keep donor names anonymous

I don't think this is right. Whenever there is a political campaign, the first thing that I want to know is who is behind it (Political contributors).

I'll never vote for someone backed by the RED Chinese, foreign billionaires or f-ing Mormons.

[Trab]

I don't know US law, but I cannot see that it should be possible to do that. In fact, they should have to pay massive court costs and penalties for even trying that.

[Graeme]

Based on the article I saw, people were complaining about being harassed and discriminated against because they had donated money. Some had received threats. They feel that this is wrong and want their names suppressed.

I agree that it's wrong, but the correct approach is to prosecute the people who mis-use the public information about donations, not to repeal the public disclosure laws. If the harassment and discrimination is not illegal, then they should campaign for universal laws against harassment and discrimination (a nice piece of irony, given the situation).

[colinian]

Based on the article I saw, people were complaining about being harassed and discriminated against because they had donated money. Some had received threats. They feel that this is wrong and want their names suppressed.

I agree that it's wrong, but the correct approach is to prosecute the people who mis-use the public information about donations, not to repeal the public disclosure laws. If the harassment and discrimination is not illegal, then they should campaign for universal laws against harassment and discrimination (a nice piece of irony, given the situation).

What's interesting is that the Yes on 8 campaign used the exact same tactics to stage boycotts of businesses that made contributions to No on 8 campaign, or if large contributions were made by principals in those businesses. There were also personal threats made against individuals who contributed to No on 8. I guess the Yes on 8 people are only concerned if it's their supporters who complain.

Colin

[JamesSavik]

What's interesting is that the Yes on 8 campaign used the exact same tactics to stage boycotts of businesses that made contributions to No on 8 campaign, or if large contributions were made by principals in those businesses. There were also personal threats made against individuals who contributed to No on 8. I guess the Yes on 8 people are only concerned if it's their supporters who complain.

The Yes on 8 people would do well to remember words of the great philosopher Dennis Leary, "Life Sucks, wear a helment."

[Guest Dabeagle]

Unfortunately many of the people who voted for or supported in other ways the Yes on 8 campaign are more interested in seeing that others live as they think we should than they are of living that way themselves.

Not only is it ironic that they complain of things happening to them that they perpetrated themselves, the ...well what's the right term here...religious right? Right wing? The Bigot Club? I'm not sure, but they have employed boycotts and such for years to force companies to change the way they deal with the LGBT community in particular. Focus on the Family is one such group, maintaining a list of people who do not see things as they do and urging others to boycott or assail mail/email boxes in order to intimidate companies from either advertising to us or supporting equality measures.

Seems the legal thinking is this will fail, as similar arguments have failed through the years. Also the California Supreme Court seems to be forward thinking in it's law interpretations, I can't see this winning.

[JamesSavik]

Boycotts and harrassment have been the tools of the religious reich for decades. They can dish it out but they can't take it.

Crying about it makes them look as stupid and weak ast they really are.

Half the BS that we live with on a daily basis would kill these twinkies.

[Richard Norway]

This link has gotten off topic a bit and seems to have become a venue for people's emotions.

There is another topic where Des has expressed his emotions as well, and I would like to bring us all back too that.

We are acting like they do! We're focusing on our anger instead of focusing on how we get the world to accept the obvious. We're here and have been always here...a fact of life. Our goal should not be on expressing our anger (which leads to confrontation), but rather on education of who we are...a part of humanity. We're not going to ever be accepted into society until society understands that we a part of that society.

[JamesSavik]

Richard-

There's something you need to learn about people- all people.

They are stupid, mean, jealous and petty and think that they are brilliant, magnanimous, trusting and generous.

They'll beat a kid or send an adult to prison for their own good so that they can get right with the lord.

Speaking of the lord, they all know and follow the one true religion and view anyone that doesn't as either a poor lost soul, with great suspicion or an evil infidel.

PEOPLE aren't going to GIVE you anything. You either have to earn it or take it.

You can ask politely, and we have for decades, but the answer will ALWAYS be NO because of human nature and its inbreed fear of that which is different even in their own race, klan or family.

This is a FIGHT and you must view it as such. We're going to have to get down and dirty, roll in the mud and kick some ass if we want to accomplish anything.

We are going to have to boycott some, intimidate others and confront the bastards that consider us "disordered" because by shying away from this fight we show weakness and embolden our enemies.

I didn't make the rules. It's just how people work.

[Cole Parker]

Unfortunately, some are like that.

Fortunately, not all.

C

[Trab]

I can fully appreciate Jamessavik's viewpoint. I don't fully agree, but definitely to some degree. I come at this from a loving and supportive family, but also with my own autistic viewpoint. He is right, in that most people won't give you anything. The need to constantly battle with authorities over rights for the handicapped, and that includes the blind, deaf, paralyzed and all the others, is amazing, and is indicative of a self gratification that has no room for love and kindness. On the other hand, most families will support and love those with the handicap.

The big difference is that none of those handicaps have active condemnation by religious bigots, and that alone makes sexual orientation a different category. Those who profess love in the name of God are very often the most unloving of all.

Sadly though, violent encounters only foster further violent encounters, and hate encounters only more hate. So, what are we to do? Being loving doesn't get us our rights. Getting violent doesn't either. How have other groups gotten anywhere? Mostly just by long term pressure and insistence from friends and family. Boycotts are one way. They are non-violent, yet fairly effective. Legal challenges is another way. When there are laws in place to ensure equality, forcing them to be abided by is vital. When there are no laws in place, pressuring to have them enacted is the first step.

And what else is vital to this? It may seem obvious, but to many, it is not. We must ensure that all of us who are sexually not 'straight' are able to accept ourselves, and stop thinking of ourselves as flawed. I hasten to add that I used the handicap references above very reluctantly, since not being straight is NOT a handicap, but I needed some example of how change can be achieved. First and foremost, we must accept ourselves, be proud of being who we are. In a way I feel that Gay Pride is too far over the top, in that what we need to be proud of is not being gay, but being human, and compassionate and accepting. It appals me when I hear of gays being abusive to transgendered, or bisexual people. That is every bit as disgusting a behaviour as straights doing that.

My point? As a story website, and a story forum, we are working to make more people accepting of their own sexuality, and maybe even some straight readers who come here, read a story, see that we are really no different in our inner selves. This too, is part of the process of change.

[Cole Parker]

Well said, Trab.

Another factor that will speed overall acceptance is increased visibility. We're seeing that today with gays more visible on TV and in movies in roles where they aren't stereotyped or marginalized. This leads to better acceptance by the masses. They tend to fear the unknown, and to most, gay men are an unknown.

It's been this way with all minorities. When people didn't know them, they feared them, and fear turns to hatred at the snap of ones fingers. But as minorities become more visible, more entrenched as co-workers and neighbors, they are seen to have the same desires and habits and problems that everyone has. With understanding and knowledge comes acceptance.

This is an area in which progress is being made. And I think it bodes well for the future.

C

[Tanuki Racoon]

There's something you need to learn about people- all people.

They are stupid, mean, jealous and petty and think that they are brilliant, magnanimous, trusting and generous.

James, ALL PEOPLE means everyone. You're including me and a lot of my friends. Some of my friends are mean, some are petty, and some are jealous. Some have more than one of those traits. But none of 'em are stupid because I can't be around stupid.

Also, there are people here I like (and people I don't) but I can assure you, speaking only for myself, I am not stupid. Am I mean? Yep, and I don't much care. Jealous? Nope. Petty? I don't think so.

But you've taken a lot of very negative traits, lumped them together, and then accused everyone on the planet of having all of them. While I would say with 95% of the planet you're absolutely right, I have come to realize over the years, that not everyone on the planet sucks. I used to feel like you, for many years, but there are people who have proven to me that not everyone is like that. If you want to say all Evangelicals are like that, you're probably right but don't lump all 6+ billion people on the planet together. I take exception to that on behalf of me and my friends. You don't even KNOW my friends so how do you know what they're like? You don't.

And it's fine if you want to feel that way. But you're wrong.