The Real Meaning of Ender according to Salon.

[FreeThinker]

An interesting commentary on the real meaning of Ender's Game from someone who actually liked the book when it came out.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/30/the_twisted_mind_of_enders_game/

[Cynus]

Very good article. Thank you for sharing it.

[Cole Parker]

I think they're onto something. Not every story has an underlying dimension or message. The underlying one in this story cannot be as profound as many people seem to want to think it is. Not if the boy is six.

C

[Cynus]

He only starts out at six, he's fourteen by the end of the book I believe.

[Cole Parker]

I don't think so, but what do I know?

C

[Nick Deverill]

Quite often, a popular book will have all sorts of meaning attached by reviewers, some who will swear the author meant something they'd never even thought of. Probably not much known outside the UK, but Gerald Durrell one of whose books was chosen for a literature exam (O level Eng Lit if I remember correctly) said he never knew he mean that after reading the questions asked of the students.

Given all the noise about the book and the film "Enders Game", my guess is we'll never know the truth but I suspect it's much more simplistic than painted. Mr Card probably just though "that's a good idea, I'll see where it goes".

I don't if anyone else has said it, I can't recall reading so, but Mr Card could have suffered a number of mini strokes in the last few years. Not enough to be physically debilitating, but could explain his current offensive views as a change in personality is symptomatic.

[EleCivil]

I think they're onto something. Not every story has an underlying dimension or message. The underlying one in this story cannot be as profound as many people seem to want to think it is. Not if the boy is six.

C

A big part of why the story works the way it does is because of the author's understanding of the dangerous side of gifted children - being intellectually capable of understanding truths with which they are nowhere near emotionally mature enough to cope. Hence the high rates of suicide attempts, drug abuse, and antisocial behavior among gifted kids. That's why I think the protagonist as a kid works - not only does the government use his childish traits to manipulate him into committing the most horrific act of violence in human history, but he realizes it.

It's not a perfect book by any means, and the further into the series you get, the more off-the-rails Card goes. At its core, though, like the author says, this is a book led by its emotional core, not its sci-fi/political dressings.

I think the sequel, Speaker for the Dead, did both sci-fi and emotion better than Ender's Game, however. It follows Ender as an adult, having used near-reletivistic travel to escape into a future where he is now reviled as history's greatest villain - his name is used much like we would use "Hitler" - where he now travels as a sort of priest/historian, seeking redemption. There's a lot of talk about nano-machines, rapid-evolution viruses, self-aware AI, and the life-cycles of alien species, but the center of the story is a family drama. If the characters ages are what bothered you, try Speaker. It's a very different book.

[Guest Dabeagle]

It just makes me sick that this book is now in the best seller list again. Willful ignorance or indifference? People vote everyday with their money for what they want - and apparently it's Mr. Card. It leaves a sour feeling in my stomach.

[Guest Dabeagle]

Another perspective, one I'm not sure I agree with, but I respect.

Card 'defending' himself.

And a snapshot of what society is choosing to finance, here.

[The Pecman]

It just makes me sick that this book is now in the best seller list again. Willful ignorance or indifference? People vote everyday with their money for what they want - and apparently it's Mr. Card. It leaves a sour feeling in my stomach.

Orson Scott Card is a total asshole as a human being, but some of his books are extremely well-written. Talent and ethics don't always go hand in hand. There are some great actors and singers who've made millions of dollars and have immense success success, but are totally lousy, amoral people.

I hesitate to say this, but all of the Ender books are out on the net as PDFs from various sources for free. Not that I would condone such a thing.

[colinian]

He only starts out at six, he's fourteen by the end of the book I believe.

I don't think so, but what do I know?

C

Cole, if you're replying to Cynus, he's correct. Ender's age in the script for the movie (which was written by Orson Scott Card and discussed in his November Wired magazine interview) was advanced to 14 because of the inability of having the Ender character played by a kid who was (or looked) six years old.

Colin

[Cole Parker]

Oh, I knew that. I thought he was saying he was 14 in the book. By the end of it. I thought he was still 6 in the book, although I suppose he could have been 7.

C

[colinian]

Here are some quotes from an article "‘Ender’s Game’ director Gavin Hood on why he changed Ender’s age" in the October 31, 2013 edition of the Los Angeles Times.

...he was 6 years old at the beginning of the book but is portrayed onscreen by 16-year-old Asa Butterfield...

I went in and pitched a take on how I thought we might bring the book to the screen, which essentially involved the thing that was probably obvious — we have to narrow the time period. Because if we go from 6 years old to 13 at the end, if we were changing actors on the audience, they would find that very disruptive to their viewing experience.

Colin

[Chris James]

I have yet to see the film and at this point I consider awaiting the DVD release. The media reviews have been mixed, some say it is an awful boring film, the script is terrible but the images are well done. Not much in that to recommend I charge out to the theater and sit for two hours.

I won't get into the age debate since I don't know the story well enough to comment. But Scott Card is a flaming idiot, a local flaming idiot when I was living in Greensboro, NC. His tirades in the Rhinoceros Times newspaper (one of those free rags you saw around town) did little to endear him to the intelligent. His books seem to be at odds with the author's personality. I'm glad I don't know him.

[EleCivil]

Oh, I knew that. I thought he was saying he was 14 in the book. By the end of it. I thought he was still 6 in the book, although I suppose he could have been 7.

C

He's at least 10 by the time he graduates to command school. I think he's 12 by the end of the book.

The book takes place over several years, which is something the movie lost - the movie makes it look like it's taking place over the course of a couple months. It kind disrupts the idea of taking a kid at a young age and keeping them isolated and in hostile conditions for years in order to break them.

I went to see the movie the other day. It was all right. The early part of the book felt very rushed - the important character-building with his siblings was reduced to about two minutes. You don't get the sense that his siblings are as brilliant as he is, and his brother is shown as being a generic bully rather than a cold, calculating sociopath.

Other than Ender and Graff, none of the characters really felt like...well, characters. If they hadn't been using their names from the book, I never would have guessed who they were supposed to be.

The visuals were quite good, though. And the acting was good. Harrison Ford is Harrison Ford-ing the whole time, which is always fun. And I liked that the movie kept a lot of imagery and scenes showing the near-totalitarian one-world government. The climax of the movie was very well visualized.

As far as adaptations, it reminded me of The Golden Compass - they took a lot of dialogue and scenes from the book, made it look nice, but lost the emotional core by focusing heavily on WHAT was happening, rather than on the people to whom it was happening. Still, I'll probably watch it again - even reading the Cliff's Notes of a great story can cause you to remember that story and evoke some powerful emotions.

I'd rank the adaptations like this:

Ender's Game Alive (the full-cast audioplay) > Marvel Comics adaptation > The movie adaptation.

I highly recommend the audioplay, by the way.

[Cole Parker]

Here's another view of this, and a very interesting one at that:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9909314/ender-game-controversial-author-very-personal-history

C

[Guest Dabeagle]

I read it all, Cole, and it would have been really nice - except for all the smoke and mirrors the fellow wields to justify himself. Anything to not give it up, something we loved and read things into as a kid, and now he passes it on to his child. I found this more interesting, to my own frame of mind.

[Cole Parker]

You do get the feel of his sadness at seeing a hero crumble before him. And I don't entirely agree with what he says is the overall message of tolerance in EG. But we all see different things in any art form, and even the author can't say these are wrong, just not what he intended.

C

[EleCivil]

I read it all, Cole, and it would have been really nice - except for all the smoke and mirrors the fellow wields to justify himself.

I don't think it's necessary at all to "justify" an appreciation for a work of art created by a flawed artist.

If I refused to read stories or listen to songs written by people of less-than-perfect morality, I'd have very little to read. Hell, I couldn't even read my own work, because I can be a dick. Heh.

And I don't entirely agree with what he says is the overall message of tolerance in EG.

Ender's Game, maybe not. But Speaker for the Dead is very much about tolerance. It's kind of the exact opposite of everything you have ever heard Orson Scott Card say.

[The Pecman]

Here's another view of this, and a very interesting one at that:

Very interesting, Cole! Thanks for sharing that.

I was particularly struck by this paragraph:

I still have trouble believing that the same man who wrote fiction full of such empathy and understanding would suggest that a civil war is preferable to legalizing gay marriage.

That's my problem, too. There's a huge disconnect between the author of those books and this outspoken, bigoted, intolerant, right-wing religious asshole. It's hard to believe they're the same person.

It again shows that the work and the author are not the same thing. I'm really dismayed, too, because Card deserved the many SF awards he's won over the past 30 years. As the article says, he's truly one of the people who took Asimov's place in that part of fiction, and it's sad to reflect that his personal life led him to his peculiar ultra-conservative religious beliefs.

[EleCivil]

I'm really dismayed, too, because Card deserved the many SF awards he's won over the past 30 years. As the article says, he's truly one of the people who took Asimov's place in that part of fiction, and it's sad to reflect that his personal life led him to his peculiar ultra-conservative religious beliefs.

Agreed. If he hadn't fallen off as badly as he did (His writing quality seemed to decrease as his assholery increased), he could have been the one to pick up the mantle of Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein. Even outside of the Enderverse, he had some interesting series and one-shots. The Worthing Saga could have easily come from one of the big three, the Alvin Maker series was very good historical fantasy (until it turned into a thinly-veiled retelling of The Book of Mormon), the Homecoming series was Asimov-esque (until it, too, turned into a thinly-veiled retelling of The Book of Mormon).

[Camy]

His writing quality seemed to decrease as his assholery increased.

I'm not offering excuses for the git's - inexcusable under any circumstances - bilious verbiage, but didn't he have a series of strokes? If so, they might account for his bigoted beliefs escaping his mental closet, even if his other yearnings didn't.

[EleCivil]

I'm not offering excuses for the git's - inexcusable under any circumstances - bilious verbiage, but didn't he have a series of strokes? If so, they might account for his bigoted beliefs escaping his mental closet, even if his other yearnings didn't.

Possibly. From what I understand, his stroke was in 2011. His anti-gay writing dates back to 1990.

[The Pecman]

...the Alvin Maker series was very good historical fantasy (until it turned into a thinly-veiled retelling of The Book of Mormon), the Homecoming series was Asimov-esque (until it, too, turned into a thinly-veiled retelling of The Book of Mormon)...

I worked on several Mormon cartoon projects a couple of years ago (don't ask), and I was stunned when I heard the whole story of Joseph Smith and the angel from god and the golden plates and the mysterious language that took him a decade to translate and on and on and on. It's the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard in my life. Scientology makes more sense, and that's really science fiction.

Gonna try to see Ender's Game tomorrow. Movie ain't doing too well, but the reviews have been OK (not stellar, but positive). A friend of mine reports the shower fight scene is intact in the book, but very G-rated.

[Cole Parker]

In the book they were nude, and he killed his opponent. Interesting to see how they'll make that a G.

C