TracyMN

Wow, what great information, and how nice of you, Altimexis to take the time to tell us. I'm a glutton for inside information, or where ever you might have picked up that more-than-passing-glance info. You have my sincere thanks. It will certainly bother Cole more than it will me, as this is my favorite CP story, and nothing is likely to change that. Though I know you might be tempted to stop writing now Cole, don't. Tracy

I know it's aggrAvate, I don't know how that happened--twice!! But I looked it up to be sure. Tracy

Hello James, that's an interesting idea--I have my doubts anyone can "get" Cole to do anything, but all you guys are welcome to try. I'll stay in the background, cheering you on, as I seem to aggrivate him enough. Imagine that... Hi Cole, I wouldn't want to aggrivate you by talking about you like you're not here. Remember guys, you write, i'll read. Tracy

I knew that was typing I heard, Cole! From your comment, I'll now try to identify the "backspace" key in it all.... But now I'm reminded that i'm waiting, and I like to let that beast sleep! Tracy

I'd contribute to that. My favorite idea is to picket FOR these things in front of their churches, on public property, not mentioning them al all, "just in the neighborhood" kind of thing. Nothing personal you understand, just a coincidence Ought to make them crazy..or is it crazier? Like I said, there's good minds here, and I am ejoying the discussion, and learning some things too. Sounds like one of those things people seldom know about, EJ, and it's worth taking note of where our own states stand. If I can find out about Minnesota, i'll post it here! Tracy

What a relief that is, Colin, and thank you for the link to the whole document. To protect the strides me make is as important as making those strides, I think. Our seemingly endless ability to move forward and back on the same issue over decades is never as clear as it is on this issue and the issue of abortion. That Iowa is on one side of one and the other side on the other is to me the irony of our Nation. And I think familiarizing myself with the document is at least my own first step in futher support of the strides made, and those to come. Thank you. Tracy

I don't know the answer to what we can do, but i'm hoping some of you do. The comments below are from a forward by Rick Beck to the upcoming chapter of "Outside the Foul Lines": But first a message from the front on the culture war: Out of VICTORY we settle for defeat The people claiming to speak for and represent LGBT interests were too busy to mount an organized opposition to Prop 8. The armies of religious groups came to deny you the right to marry. This was the biggest battleground for gay rights in 30 years and we blew it off. Prop 6 would have fired gay teachers. The religious onslaught was rolling through state after state intending to deal a death blow to gay civil rights. Prop 6 polled at 60% in favor. The religious crusaders had come to do God?s work and who can fight that? Enter Harvey Milk. Harvey cornered little old ladies on the street. He spoke to any group that would tolerate him. He spoke anywhere at any time. He ended up in front of large crowds. He?d been told he?d be shot. He would not shut up and Prop 6 was overwhelmingly defeated. Harvey?s face was on the issue. Harvey showed up to fight for our right to be free. See the movie ?Milk? for the blueprint and fight for your rights. Show up the next time or accept you are what they say you are. Let them define us and they?ll set us back another forty years. Forty years ago this August drag queens showed up. They threw several NYC cops out of the Stonewall Inn. Tired of being abused, they fought back. The cops brought reinforcements to teach the fags a lesson they?d never forget. The drag queens called for reinforcements too. Greenwich Village emptied onto Christopher Street and the people stood between the police and the bar. The Christopher Street Riots had begun. The Stonewall Generation was born. The standoff lasted for days. The city fathers, with the world watching, agreed the drag queens would no longer be harassed. The riot ended and the modern gay rights era began. They showed up and they were ready to go to war. Laws making it a crime to be ?homosexual? were overturned. This year we should be celebrating the 40th anniversary of these events. Instead we mourn the end of legal gay marriage in California. With that we may have forfeited our best shot at full civil rights for a generation. Who do we blame? Who didn?t show up? If the next generation is watching, and I hear from some amazing college students, I hope you?ve seen how seriously this generation takes your civil rights. We could have won the day, swept the opposition from the battlefield. We could be celebrating each and every new LGBT couple?s marriage and in August we?d have been able to celebrate how far we?d come in forty years. What could have been if you hadn?t been so busy? Take Heed: There are 18,000 legally married LGBT couples in California today. The crusaders will be back to cancel them out. They smell blood and are poised to finish us off. We didn?t show up and they did. They?ve taken the high ground where they wait. Is there not a man or women among us with the balls to do Harvey proud? Can any of you show the courage of those drag queens? It?s your voice that counts. It?s your feet that count. This cannot be allowed to stand. You must decide whether you want to fight it here and now or still be fighting it in another 40 years. This was California, a beacon of hope in my youth. RIP California, your final act of decline, writing discrimination into law. Fight For Your Right To Be Free, Rick Beck No peace in my world today. My marching days are done. I?d be out there if I could see. I?d show up but no one cares about some old fart?s anger with his people and that makes it your fight now. There are great minds here, and I look forward to your comments. Thanks for listening. Tracy

I'll save the specifics of my responses for a less public forum, James. I'm a most captive audience of this one, and have been from the first go. Haha, I'll read anything cats will sit for, they are not much given to paying attention unless you have at least one free hand to pet them where they want it--I'm still trying to figure out where that is on my current companion. I'm going looking for chapter four, which I heard would be here by the weekend, and this is that. As always, thanks for your effort. Tracy

Australia well in advance of the US again, go figure. Not perfect, but from where I sit, enviable, indeed. I applaud your description of the US and tax law, Cole. It reminds me of conversations with Rick, and I can't help but think he would so much enjoy the company here. As it is, I can pass it along to him, and continue to enjoy my education here. Now i'm back to read the initiator article to this thread. Regards and greetings everyone, Tracy

See you there! Tracy

Such fine and well deserved comments, Richard. A pleasure to read on your behalf! Well done! Tracy

Yes, I said just around the corner, from Rick Beck: "Outside the Foul Lines" returns to AD, and though it's probably supposed to go in that other section, but i'm lazy... look for "Gay Boy Running" very soon at Codey's World. Tracy

I would think it especially gratifying for a writer to see new faces appear in response to their work! Welcome here to Wildone and Dishy, new perspectives are always good for everyone. I, too, have learned never to assume where Cole's stories are concerned, and to have a hands-off approach to speculation in general. I'm simply no good at it, and as a result have found it easy to just go where I am led, and to be better for having done so in the end. On that note, I'll venture to say this story may see the best discussions of it coming at the end. Tracy

Thanks Des, such a kind word, praise. What I might have said, was thanks for tossing the ball back and forth, my favorite thing in the world. Great idea, "Guess Whose...Redux". Any particular reason you shouldn't be the one to do it? Or we could get Clint Eastwood to do a movie version, he'd be perfect for the Spencer Tracy role. If it's 3am in the US central time zone, what time is it where you are? Is it Thursday? Spring? It hardly seems possible that I could have slept through Geography every year. A writer in New Zealand informed me recently that April = Autumn there, throwing my tenuous sense of balance spinning of into space. EmmyLou Harris does a song called "Defying Gravity" that is a good analogy, using the Earth's rotation as an explaination for dizziness. My daughter would simply say "dork". Her sum of everything Tracy. Haha, yup, we need a new topic, or another angle on marriage. Tracy

A person can wait their whole life, Des, to meet a part of themselves in another. While I believe we are born with all we are and will become in the present form and life, there was nothing in the road I was on to indicate I was on my way to anything; one self-imposed prison after the next doesn't LOOK like the road to freedom. No doubt you have had your own lessons in chaos. A powerful and dangerous statement, and it is the danger that gives it it's power. Which appeals to the courageous, and fools alike. At the core of what each of you have said here, Des and Fritz, is Intent. Proven over and over, by OJ Simpson, President Obama, or Ms Prejean, intent is definite when set in operation, but once set the course of it is variable. I believe honesty is be Obama's first choice in everything; and his campaign appeared self-directed. I voted for him and now I trust him to do his job the best he can. Today tomorrow or four years from now will not find me asking for any more than he has done. Eight years of Bush and not a peep, how much stake should put in anything these people say now, their capacity to be offended highly suspect. And while his support of Gay Marriage is desireable, and would lend considerable weight to the cause, the struggle at the State level will need to be fought and won regardless. It may sound ridiculous, but I consider this fight already won, just delayed by a few obstacles. By the way Des, I love your quote. There is some work to be done along those lines for sure. Night Beautiful Boys, thanks for letting me think, Tracy

Hello All: Since when does a Beauty Pagent participants opinion on anything matter? They have been answering the equivalent of this question forever ( well, ok, since my forever or just a bit longer than a tv to do it on, haha that sounds funny enough to leave as is...) I see this two ways, it is either just one more Jerry Springer episode, or it is significant that it is not the word "GAY" itself that gets everybody excited, but what is associated with it. That to me is progress. The rest is just the circus in town, and a monkey os only a monkey even if he can ride a bike. I don't see much threat to free speech in these tactics, Des, but it does have me thinking about the exercise of it. And the radical right has a smarter face these days, and a new vocabulary that employs what has worked elsewhere, like political convolution, PR buzzwords, and sentences that if followed to completion would make no sense, but they only want us to hear a couple of them, and that, sadly, is most effective of all. My friend's brother sends me forwards that contain endless inflammatory and patently untrue statements, most of which I delete without opening, but I use one now and then because I feel it unwise to dismiss or underestimate the power of these things to promote pieces of racism and hatred and separative influences totally free of responsibility for the content or it's distribution. I am not ready to say there is such a thing as too much freedom, but if children have parents because they can not be expected to comprehend the implications of action, how much more dangerous is choosing not to. Semantics, the weapon of choice for those with no real argument. Off to work, where theoretical is a luxury. Peace, all, Tracy

If you only knew what you were getting yourself into...though this seems like a good step one. Instructions for a young child, or where to get them would be very much appreciated. And if we've covered this before, your infinite patience is again a blessing I may or may not deserve. Tracy

Haha, that, or pluck my eyebrows out, one by one. Smart and funny, my favorite combination. Tracy

How typically American, that I get my news of my own country from someone who lives elsewhere. I am surprised most about Iowa, who reversed their stand on Roe vs Wade. But that does not mean I am not happy about their decision on Gay Marriage, as this is surely an issue that will see it's success one state at a time, with each one paving the way for others. I'd hate to think this is more "monkey see, monkey do" but I don't rule anything out. Thanks for the news, Des, and for the news I want to hear without all the aggravation of US news programs or newspapers. I do find BBC world news totally tolerable, with the aggravation coming from the news itself rather than the topics or the delivery. It's the being awake for it that poses the challenge. Tracy

I can't decide which of your quotes I like best! I am relieved to hear I don't have to reinstall Windows, as nothing for me seems to go as planned, and drastic measures make me think "drastic consequences". I think I will have to start at step two, because I seem to know a number of folks who think they are experts, I have yet to see evidence of that fact. Thanks also for the info about the beeps, seems sophistocated to me but is likely elementary to you. I do best when spoken to simply, hehe, and slowly is good too. So here's to hoping a sound card will do it, but don't be surprisd if i'm back saying "what do I do with this thing?". Have I said you guys are wonderful? I really do appreciate every bit of your attention. Tracy

Haha, so much truth in humor, Des. But you illustrate an important point--the term "de facto" seems to me to open the door to a whole world. It gives the freedom for me to define for myself what constitutes relationship, and in theory it can be what ever I say it is, for me. Your government has adopted the use of the word to serve their purposes, within the context of the scope of their influence, but certainly it was not an entirely independant or voluntary act originally. I suspect it was like any other government or service industry, a response to a situation that presents itself in a proportion they could no longer afford NOT to do something about. No matter their reasons, really, but it can be expected that it will only go so far, and riddled with what amounts to land mines and the usual extraneous nonsense. I will use the link, thank you, as look forward as I always am to being enlightened about something I did not know existed. Why that should ever surprise me, that there's something I don't know, has me chuckling and shaking my head at how small our daily world really is when left to our own resouces. It takes getting out and talking to people to retain any sense of perspective, and I appreciate all of what I get by coming here. So much easier than getting off my ass and going out. No luxury comes without a price, eh? Carpal tunnel and broader hips for an ever expanding horizon. Tracy

I thought this was a great story, and I was never more glad to NOT find what I expected. Tracy

Thank you Des, for clarifying where you are coming from, and even more for your intent. As with anything involving government and/or legal issues, it is so important to understand the implications that are inherent, as the job of dealing with the unimaginable elements created by any act of these entities will surely require all available resources after the fact. Anticipated difficulties are nothing compared to the bs that can be dragged into it--I no longer trouble myself with whether this is caused by ignorance, arrogance, stupidity, or malice, as we will not be spared having to systematically deal with each split hair that presents itself simply by knowing who it's parents are. The American Constitution is, in my opinion, a rather inspired document, and seemed to allow for the subsequent ability of human beings to misinterpret, misrepresent, over and under estimate significance, with one or two visionary protections for threats yet unmanifest in even the imagination of the public whose lives would be shaped by it. We have not evolved beyond the limits of human capacities, and expecting Democratic principles to encompass the pernicious self-interest of Capitalism is a recipe for exactly what we have before us-- an over-developed sense of our individual rights and the total absense of collective consciousness. Failing to understand that every single expression of the word "I" defeats the purpose of every single sysytem that could actually work for us all. We make a mess of everything! How hard is the concept of equality, really? I can want what I want, and can have it, as long as I don't take what's yours without consent to get it. What is mine, what is consent--these are the questions that bring us to a standstill? Your points, Des, about the right to privacy is illustration enough of every other right we believe we have and how it can and is obiterated before our eyes--and if we were to apply this to the issue of consent, we would surely lose in any court regardless of the system of goverment. We trip over ourselves to get a picture phone so we can take pictures of ourselves or of our of our friends when they don't know it. To say that because today, you have nothing to hide so it doesn't matter if you can be tracked and recorded and filmed, or to say that because you are not someone the police would be interested in and therefore it would not be your house they could see into is reason to give up your right to not have them do so, is to sign away any and all claims to Democracy, and yet will defend it as the best system on the planet, paying with the lives of others for rights that have been surrendered with ambivalence worn like a crown. The priviledge to not give a shit, the mark of any good American. A part of me keeps struggling to believe what I see, thinking it impossible to have eyes and see nothing. Ideally, to claim ones space for oneself would be enough, and how one sees oneself be the only view that mattered. To me that would be true freedom. But that our survival is inseparable from at least some participation in the way things are done, i.e. credit ratings, criminal records, employment history, etc., and if they can't define us we simply do not exist and with each passing day this fact moves from theoretical to literal. What elsewhere produces delays and reduction of benefits, in America will blossom into the Capitalistic goal of all out denial. Why pay anything if you can find a way around it, where NO is worth it's weight in gold and no expense is spared in it's pursuit. It seems that inclusion does not necessarily provide freedom, and that acceptance brings rules of the game and proof of how good a sport we really are. Again, I will continue to support and promote equality on whatever stage it appears, seeing all such causes as part of one whole, and hope that through our own struggles we will discover each other and see ourselves in each others eyes. One thing for sure, giving voice to our hope, fear, anger, and desperation is the first and best defence against dispair. But i'd rather be kicking ass. Tracy

As with all Cole's work, I very quickly find somebody to love, in this case, Chad. And I couldn't be more thoroughly annoyed than with Brittany, which is, i'm sure, the point. I'm all set for another ride through the heart and mind of a young adolescent, through the eyes of one who remembers those years like no one else anywhere near my age. Nice work Cole, and welcome back. Tracy

I liked it. I like Steven a lot. I'll leave the process discussions to those of you who know something about it. Tracy