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The forum software can take different themes or skins, such as this light text on dark page theme, or one of the usual dark text on light page themes. The trick would be making sure both themes are customized to the site's needs. But there is one fly in the ointment: Whenever a member sets a text color other than the default, that's stored with his/her post. Unfortunately, there's no good way to convert all those. Someone skilled with database coding would have to do it, and the results would be kinda freaky. What do I mean? For instance, any very light text, including yellow or orange, looks fine on a very dark background, but on a light background? Whew. Another for instance, solid royal blue, #0000FF and darker, look very dark to me against a dark background like this. What I'm saying is that it's very possible to add another theme and allow members to choose which theme they want, but it has some inherent issues if you want to switch from light to dark and back. The real issues are (1) customizing a second theme and keeping both in sync; and (2) how many people will actually use another theme besides the default the forum uses? I did a small, informal survey a few months back, because I really wanted to use a light text on dark page type theme for a story. I wasn't prepared for the responses: there were only a couple of people who liked that idea (without seeing an example) out of over a dozen replies. Yet a lot of sites, especially for audio and video, or science fiction, or various other things, prefer it for good reasons. -- And yes, there have been legibility studies that support both sides. Some rules of thumb: * Don't make the text and page too low in contrast or too close in hues or saturation. There needs to be enough separation, or readability suffers drastically and people won't bother reading. * Backgrounds behind text can't be too busy / loud / complicated, or people will have trouble reading. It's a special case of the contrast mentioned above. * Text on a dark background needs to have enough "weight" to the font so it doesn't wash out / clog up in print. Designers are supposed to know this and use bolder and thicker fonts. The key word there is "supposed." * Text size matters if your vision is not perfect. -- A lot of designers now don't think of this because (1) they are young and have good vision; (2) they are used to their screens and light tables and don't have experience "out in the wild" with how the products are used. (That's not quite true. They just aren't thinking about it and weren't trained well enough.) * There are more rules of thumb that come in handy, but as you can see, I've already used more than two thumbs. Possibly, I'm more related to a certain simian than I thought. Hmm.... It is possible to use a "style switcher" where you click on a link or button to switch stylesheets, but that requires readers to have JavaScript turned on, for instance, or else a link that does something fancy with PHP, or else (eek) two actual versions of each page. It's possible to provide an alternate stylesheet (or a few) to handle, for example, color and light / dark schemes or text size, or whatever else the designer feels like providing. I'm not too sure how common that is and how well browsers now support it. The last time I looked into it, it was more trouble than warranted. But that may have changed. I'll put it on my "How do you do that fancy cool feature?" list. -- Meanwhile, I can run an experiment or two to see what might be doable without too much mess and headache for The Powers That Be, i.e., his Dudeness and any loyal minions. Related: To answer Pecman's question about viewing on an iPad or other tablet or on a smart phone (iPhone, Android, etc.) -- Yes, you can already do that without any extra bells and whistles, as long as you are surfing the web from your handy pad / phone / gadget. If you want to view those later offline, you'd need to save the complete web page. See your browser's File menu. For convenient viewing on a Kindle or other e-reader device, yes, you'd want a handy version of the file, either .txt or one of the ebook formats ( .epub, .mobi, and so on), or a .pdf. In my opinion, the .pdf files don't keep enough in actual text or images; the files tend to glomp too much together. -- I have been looking at how to do ebook formats off and on, but I have been busy with HTML5 and CSS3 coolness (and extreme weirdness) ...and real life in general is kicking my butt lately besides. -- Converting files to offer as mini ebooks would be doable, if you have enough volunteer trained web monkeys. This particular web monkey (not affiliated with the site by that name, by the way) is, as I said, trying to learn "a bunch of new stuff" to keep up and be marketable again. (Yes, buy me, I'm moderately inexpensive and I will do ...well, a lot of unspecified things... for gainful employment. My cats and I like to eat!) Short version: There are solutions out there to readability problems, but they each have a few built-in hurdles to get past. Yes, some readers have trouble with black text on a white page on screen, while others have trouble with the opposite, and still others need certain contrast levels, while others have colorblind issues, and some (like me) need large print, while still others need text to speech screen reader software because they can't see well enough. (I'm vision-impaired / legally blind; I get it about those kinds of problems.) I can help out if I know what to do and how to do it. Figuring out something brand new can be tricky, these days, if your resources are limited to self-teaching. I'm not as readily available as I used to be, but I do check in as often as I can, and I do get email if anyone sends any. (Ugh, spam is not good.) Sadly, I haven't gotten any personal email in...a very long time...other than a very few people who give me a shout once in a blue moon. The Dude is a good guy. He's not a techie web genius, but that's not his fault. I'm not the guru web genius I'd like to be either. I'm nearly all self-taught. -- Dude tries his best to give people what they want for basically no price of admission, and that is one heckuva big thing. Dude does have other things he does with his time, like working and feeding his cats and searching for that elusive boyfriend. Well, I'm presuming about that last one, I have no idea, really. Dude does a good job, and he'll try to do what he can, but he needs help in suggestions, comments, input, questions, and plain old information, so he can know what we readers want and need. -- One way to get what you want is to say what you need and describe the problem and desired outcome as best as you can, so that Dude (or his loyal minions) can figure out what the heck you want and need, and how many people need it, in order to provide a solution. Hmm...style switchers and alternate stylesheets for modern browsers.... Providing for e-readers and formatting for ebooks.... Hmmm.... Much to think about.... I wonder if it's now as easy with another stylesheet as they were claiming a few months back.... No, I haven't slept much the past few days, and no, no substances (other than sugar and caffeine) are involved. That and general weirdness of life. Kudos to Dude, and those of us with a techie bent to our brains (what little we've got) will put our thinking caps on. Zzzzz.... :)

There has to be a better way, a way to get people to listen, a way to make things better. There must be a way to reach the phobic people, shake them, and say, look, your words and actions are causing untold suffering and it's hurting and killing innocent kids. How can that be what you think God wants? What would God think of your man-made actions to make others so disheartened that they'd commit suicide, or that others would hurt them so badly? How dare you! There must also be a way to reach the at-risk kids, to say, there is a future out there, a lot of people who don't believe you're bad for being gay or bi or even leaning a little that way. There must also be a way to let them know that there are people out here in the real world and online who are allies, friendly, and have been through it or have loved ones who have been. There must also be a way to reach us, those of us who say we care, we are committed, and make us strong enough to do something real to help. ...I wish I knew the way to get that quiet minority-majority of us to refuse to take it anymore, and speak out and act to improve things. ...And yet it is a very fragile topic, how to reach someone at risk, someone whom you don't know for sure is gay or bi or any of those other letters. And yes, I have argued with people who refuse to understand, who refuse to believe what they're doing is wrong and hurtful. ...And yes, I remember too well what it was like to be a questioning (and eventually suicidal) teen who had such trouble dealing with being gay. But there must be something better. I am so, so tired of hearing political candidates, religious leaders, and ordinary people putting down, even villifying, gay people. The last time I heard that nonsense, connected with a lot of other nonsense, it pushed me past the point where I'd tolerate it. I've become more radicalized than I ever was. (Oh, I'm not some model protester; I'm all too normal and quiet for that.) But -- The next time someone spouts off about it, I may spout off right back at them. My "gay agenda" is to make it through the year without losing what I still have. So I have lost patience with the people whose nonsense I used to tolerate somewhat. Life has changed around me. I have had to change and still am changing, I hope in the right directions. ...I don't have the answers, but I long for a better world. I hate seeing yet more news of how some other teen has succumbed to the disillusionment and given up, or been pushed into it. Perhaps the answer isn't, "It gets better," although that's a good effort, but instead, "How can we make it better together?" I have an unworthy small wish: I wish that all those small-minded, hurtful people so convinced that being gay (etc.) is so wrong, would see the true harm they are doing to kids and teens. They. Like Pontius Pilate or Lady Macbeth, refusing to acknowledge their complicity. I wish they could understand that, the next time some poor gathering of family and friends have to escort the casket of a middle school or high school kid to that final resting place. (And please keep in mind, I am quite aware, since it's now almost two and a half months since my grandmother's funeral.) Though she didn't understand being gay, she would have been horrified that any teen died as a result of other people's goadings and malice, or of the loss of hope for something better.

— Martin Niemöller. http://en.wikipedia....y_came%E2%80%A6

Tennessee is a fine state.

Why is it when I see news like this, I think of the rise of the fascist powers of World War II, and not the democratic Allies and the ideals from American and English and French philosophy that went into the founding of America? This isn't the first time I've wondered if I will wake up one day and discover that I no longer recognize the country I love. I would really suggest the people who want to put things like those kinds of monitoring and limits in place, really should go back and *read* the Constitution and Amendments. Oh, such things as freedom of speech, press, assembly, religion, and more. The notion of separation of church and state. The idea of innocent until proven guilty. The idea that a free and educated citizen is the best defense in any country, enough to be ready at a minute's notice to rise to defend him- or herself and his/her neighbors. I can't recall right now the exact quote, but if I remember correctly, it was Simon Wiesenthal who said (paraphrasing) that it was all well and good until it was you they came for in the middle of the night.

I recall Graeme wrote a nice short story about American football players a while ago. Worth reading. In high school, if you'd suggested to me that any of those big, ultra macho football players were gay, I would've blinked and laughed incredulously. It would've sounded unbelievable (to me). Yes, I should've known better, but I didn't. (Note, yes, I do know "football" is soccer in international usage.) I should probably also say, of course, not all the jocks on the football team (or other sports) were the ultra macho stereotype. Neither were all the cheerleaders bimbos. Too many were, though. A few were good guys and girls. I do wish they hadn't been so bad to our school's first male cheerleader and mascot. He was (and as far as I know is) a great guy. Most sports still don't take well to players being out. The guys get worried. In one way, I suppose that's understandable. But in another, it's the stereotype that a gay person can't keep their hands or thoughts (or other appendages) to themselves, or that they'll be attracted to every guy around them. Not so, of course. That isn't being helped any by the increased worries about privacy in public settings like locker rooms, changing rooms, and bathrooms, or in general. Now, I grew up as one of those boys very shy about his body. I was pale and skinny and short, at least up until junior high and high school, when I started catching up, except in weight. And that was without the first inklings that hey, I liked guys. But adding those feelings into it, I was very nervous about not looking and not being seen. (A friend once pointed out, if I'd let myself look some, I might've noticed if anyone was looking back, heheh.) But that was at a time and in a place where it was only mildly any big deal, no more so than for most guys. Now, however, it sounds as though everyone has that same "fear of seeing and being seen" and phobias about same-sex activity, or age-inappropriate activity, somehow happening, simply from being around each other in a setting changing clothes or having physical contact (sports, hugging, anything). Now, as someone who had to grow out of that inhibited shyness, I can say that being that focused on it all is not healthy. If only our sports and gym classes (and culture in general) could relax about such unfounded fears. As a teen especially, sure I was curious and wished I could look or someone would be interested. But how to deal with that if they were? LOL, oh my. Yet even so, that didn't mean I was going to like every guy in the room or get excited about it. I was, in fact, worried and hoping I *wouldn't*. I had manners, and shyness, and boundaries. I really wish that people who worry so much about gay contact (or whatever else) in those contexts would realize that just because I'm gay, it doesn't mean I'm going to be interested or act on it, any more than when they see someone they think is good looking at the beach or other public setting. ...But then, I wish my teenage self could've understood things like that too. Our society has somehow gotten very hung up or immature, and very paranoid about this. Considering the word-history, the meaning, of the word "gymnasium," it's strange we have gotten to this point, and that we seem headed toward further demonizing it before sanity takes over again. Possibly, though, there's enough current going the other way that things will change for the better. I have heard of a few cases where players of various sports came out without problems. That acceptance is healthier.

Camy, your poem's great. -- Also liked the quote from William Carlos Williams a lot. "Penile green." -- I'll be attempting to grow vegetables this year. I shall be on the voyeuristic lookout for flowers' exhibitionism and subtle fornications.... Uh.... Golly, and to think, if humans let it all hang out like that, even if it's good looking, they get frowned upon. Well, at least by the ones not so interested.... I think my libido's distracted. The poem really was not focused there. :shrugs:

My "poetry" nearly always comes out as freeform modern stuff, instead of the lyrical rhyme and meter I wish I could get. Rarely, something will start with any traditional lyrical or poetic form. I like wordplay, though. I like poetry, but I'm not as much an afficionado as I should be. Lately, the past two months, I keep finding myself doing alliterations without conscious intent. That's odd. I'll write or say or think something, and find I'm put three or four words or more into alliteration without planning it. Odd. I'm not sure what's doing it. I don't mind it, though, because it at least says my brain's doing something with wordplay and poetic writing skills. It's been great to see more poetry going on here. Note: You can find my own attempts at poetry at: http://www.codeysworld.com/blue/poetry/ and http://www.shinyfiction.com/poetry/ Nearly all are co-hosted at both sites.

Why and how did I miss that the movie is science fiction and not only a movie about amateur filmmakers? That's what I get for not reading certain forum threads, isn't it? *cough* 'Scuse me. I saw an ad for the movie and have it to watch on the i of tunes, once I pause from writing long enough to watch. I promise to pay more attention to discussions. ...I visit two scifi forums regularly. How did I not notice? Duh, duh, duh....

I've downloaded it to read later. :)

:: Hands Dude the box of aluminum foil. Or aluminium foil, for those of you across either pond.

Hmm.... It has been a long, long time since I last bought from J.C. Penney's, and that reminds me to go in and cancel their card. I just checked my email. J.C. Penney's has become confused about me. Their email ad says, "Be the It Girl!" My thought was, "Uh, sorry, you've got the wrong guy!" But I thought, OK, I'll see what the email says. Hmm. It is indeed an ad for women's clothing. If I were female or straight/bi with a wife or girlfriend, or if there were some nice female relative in need of a not-too-intimate present, well, maybe. The ad is for women's dresses, shoes, handbags. Sorry, no, no, and no. LOL. They are talking to the wrong guy, sorry. Now, if there were some skit or amateur thing where I was supposed to play a character in drag, especially for a comedy, I could do that without having a macho fit. -- OK, I might have some angst, there, but I think I'd be mostly OK. I think. There's this slight issue of a mustache and knobby knees, though. ...OK, I have no idea how I'd look, really. Probably not the most attractive guy in drag, I bet! -- I haven't been in a skit or amateur play in a long time, and I'm not now part of a group, so it's not really an issue. -- Drag just isn't my thing. I, uh, have run into at least two ppl who were in drag though, and that was an "experience." (I wonder if the second guy knew I could tell, haha.) -- Note, my eyesight and whatever, it might take me a minute to pick up on the fact, if someone's androgynous enough. No, I'm not sure why I felt the need to justify. Maybe my own insecurities there? However, Penney's? You sent that ad to the wrong customer, sorry. Not currently any lady in my life I'd want to buy women's apparel for.

Oh, and just in case it might be an issue for some members, I hope things are easy to navigate for blind members; likewise for motion impairment. I'm not nearly as aware as I'd like to be of how accessible any of the forum software packages are. The last time a blind friend and I had talked about it, it was still pretty poor. I'm vision-impaired / legally blind, so it isn't quite the same sort of issue, but it's one I'm sensitive to because of myself and good friends with various conditions. The tangent off-topic is because it occurred to me I'd just told someone where to look for something on screen, rather than vision-independent directions. -- For any blind members, those controls should appear near the "top" or start of the audio reading for the page. (And yes, I need to try a full text-to-speech screen reader interface anyway.) I know of at least one gay and blind reader and author (besides me) but he doesn't participate on the forums here or at the other sites he visits. -- Anyone with other accessibility concerns is very welcome to contact me as always. Back on-topic with me.

Anthony, if you'd rather not post your email address in the forum, you can do a couple of things otherwise. * At the very top of the forum page, the envelope icon, labelled "Messenger," allows you to access the private message function (PM) of the forum, by which you can send and receive short notes to/from other forum members. That's common to any forum software. An administrator or moderator can help resolve questions/problems if you need help. * If you click the name of a forum member, such as mine at the left of this post, you will see some options, and you can click to view a person's profile. From there, one option is to email a forum member, if he or she has OK'd receiving email from forum members. In your own profile, you may approve or decline allowing other members to email you. That first such email from a given member is sent to you by the forum software, and protects your email address. Once you reply to a given member, you then have each other's email address. If there should ever be a problem, a member may contact an administrator for resolution. However, we would hope that's never needed. Happy writing and editing, all! Happy reading and listening too!

I'm a science fiction fan, but I led a very sheltered life. I have never (yet) been to a theatre screening of the Rocky Horror Picture Show to get the full effect. I'm told I should bring a raincoat. I believe this involves liquid, probably during the finale. I have, however, been to a few scifi conventions, and they have been mostly great fun. -- Friends at a couple of forums would get a huge thrill out of seeing your picture in costume, above. -- I missed out on recording myself for inclusion in a Time Warp video, but there's hope for future videos. -- Des, that photo is awesome! It's been too long since I last went to the movies. I'm trying to get back into the swing of things this year, despite budget freak outs. -- I've been to only one IMAX presentation, the Fantasia 2000 showing. -- But there's something cool about going to the movies that you don't get at home. And no, I'm not referring to the need to sweep and mop the theatre floor, haha, from all the sodas and popcorn. Your TV and couch at home aren't quite the same as that big silver screen and sharing a movie with a live audience. How cool, I know Riff Raff! Well, sort of.

You can't remove a behavior from society if it is caused by something within that society or if it benefits that society, without changing the society in some far-reaching, fundamental way. You also cannot remove a behavior in society if it has an environmental or biochemical or genetic basis, without removing all factors that cause it, or all who exhibit the behavior or trait, or all who carry the trait as a potential for their offspring. Before someone would suggest getting rid of homosexuality that way, perhaps they need to examine their society to see why homosexuality might exist in it. Does it serve some societal or biological purpose? Is it perhaps a safety value on overpopulation, or a way to support cohesion within groups in that society? Just what, in other words, are you trying to eliminate? What are you trying to do? Let's say instead of homosexuality, it's some other behavior. Would you propose to eliminate some other behavior by getting rid of anyone who behaves that way? Did they kill someone, that you'd want to kill them? Do they have some other benefit to society besides the one behavior you'd kill them for? Or it's some other biological or genetic trait, if that's what explains homosexuality, would you kill, get rid of, everyone who either exhibits that trait or carries the genes that cause that trait? -- Be careful! Not only do you eliminate the homosexual, but you've just killed his parents and siblings, because most of them carry the genes too, if it's genetic. If it's a simple trait, a single pair of genetic alleles, then that's as many as three-fourths of all offspring plus the parents, who carry the alleles that might create an individual who expresses that genetic trait or phenotype. (That's basic genetic biology, available in any high school or college textbook. I do remember some of freshman biology.) Let's see, while we're at it, who else should we get rid of? Hmm.... Well, that could get quite messy. Creating that master race could be hard work, limiting it down to that select few. Now what if you've just eliminated something unexpected but necessary? What if you've narrowed the gene pool down to a puddle that can only breed so much before it becomes inbred and it dries up? Aw, too bad. Just who gets to be in the club? Blond or brown hair or ginger? Brown or blue or green eyes? What height and weight factors? What facial features? Shall we get rid of everyone who has a physical condition, a handicap? Hmm, you seem to be squinting, are you sure you don't need glasses? Oops, so sorry, out you go! That's the absurdity of it. That if you say it's inborn or from some factor in the environment, you eliminate there. If it's behavioral, you eliminate there but you'd have to eradicate from the social causes. Either way, you are sure doing a lot of disposal of living human beings. I believe that is frowned upon in most nations and most religions. It isn't sensible to do that. Moderate and thinking people would see that. Those who don't are not really using their brains, and probably not reading through the texts they say they follow.

Well, while I'd cheer with Des gladly, I'd also caution that the inturwebz is just as prone to misinformation and disinformation as it is to correct, true, or unslanted information. Why? Because people use the web and put up what they think or believe to be true, and sometimes it isn't quite so. (I am not immune to that myself, darn it.) But that simply means we have to be smart about examining what we read, see, and hear online, just like we should be careful in person or in print or audio or video, when someone claims something. It doesn't mean it's bad, it just means we need to think about it before taking it to heart as truth. (Again, I am not immune there, demonstrably.) But Des is very right that the web has given greater freedom of information and communications, freedom of the press, of debate, of assembly, and so on, to an unprecedented degree. Yes, it's as big an improvement as the invention of the printing press in Europe and China. (Yes, it was invented both places independently. Gutenberg might have heard of the Chinese doing it.) And yet ironically, it's censorship (or attempted censorship) by both East and West that could limit us all, East and West. If we can't freely discuss things, if someone who wants information or arts and entertainment for the sake of such things, or to invent and create something new; if we can't debate things and try to come up with better solutions, then...no one advances. No one. Instead, we stay static and dull, or we retreat, fall down, defeat. How sad if we (or our elected officials or those with power) limit those possibilities, refuse to allow something better, new, or simply different, not thought of before, not invented here...or there. In particular as a gay person, I think how much it would've helped me growing up, if I could've found information about being gay, about history, translations, interpretations, art, discussions, yes images too, because it would have helped me form my own opinions and discover what I thought was right and wrong about what I thought I knew and what I'd grown up thinking, believing. Yes, as a boy and young man, when puberty started and the need to learn and understand what was happening...all over and inside...made itself known, oh, how it would've helped to have something like the internet. But it wasn't there yet. I was not brash enough to look in some of the ways I could've looked back then. I was not yet socially (or otherwise) adept enough yet to find the right someone(s) to explore such matters in person, either. I was shy and bookish, a geek, handicapped. Oh, come on, I was not all that bad. I had friends, I was friendly. But this was a super important (and very touchy, in all senses of that word) subject for me, fraught with feelings, thoughts, assumptions, preconceptions...mysteries, curiosities, wishes.... And there I was, a kid a little behind the curve and shy about it all, yet very much needing to understand why some boys seemed so much more, in so many ways, and why that was or wasn't different than friendship...or love...in whatever ways I could (or wanted to) find that. The internet offers the chance to discover things like that, to give someone the chance to educate themselves, to find out for themselves. That isn't "dirty" or "bad" or "sinful," to want to understand, to need to understand, and to seek that understanding, to seek people like oneself, or people who at least might accept you. -- That is part of that ideal of human potential, of being an educated person, of improving your life. -- Why is it that so many people are so terribly fearful of that? -- I ask that, as someone who had trouble when his body and brain found themselves feeling and thinking differently than he'd thought he was "supposed to be," and for too long, didn't accept that difference. I too was a little afraid, or maybe a lot afraid sometimes, because...I wasn't the way others said I was supposed to be, or the way I was growing up believing I was supposed to be. Yet I felt and thought differently: I was a boy who liked boys, a young man who liked young men. -- And it is important to accept and understand yourself and others, instead of to fear and refuse to learn or understand. It's vital to be able to learn and change and grow. If we don't, we stagnate or shrivel up and die a little, as a person, as a group, a culture, or a species. -- Let's please not let that happen. Because we have a choice. Like that young person (or later adult) trying to come to grips with something for which he wasn't prepared, we can either choose to learn to understand and change, or we can refuse to and remain limited and closed off, less than we could be, not reaching that full potential. We need to be able to change how we do things in so many ways, if we're going to survive. Our ways of thinking and doing must change somehow. We must accept differences and try new things. We must be willing to test those things out. We must also be willing to accept that others will do things a little differently and that is OK. Or...our families, friends, cultures, or species may not make it into that future. Those who refuse to learn and change won't survive, or won't flourish, at least. Yet there are so many out there who deserve the chance to thrive, and so much that's good in all that diverse history and mix of cultures and beliefs and ways of doing things. That, to me, is what it's about. Is that a little grandiose, making too much of it? Maybe, yes. Or is it? Anyway, it seems a worthwhile thing to strive for, despite all the obstacles. "You can be more" is a quote from Farscape which I use often, because it's fitting and it's a reminder, to me and to others. "There are more things in heaven and upon the earth, than are dreamt of in your philosophy, oh Horatio." -- William Shakespeare. Instead of censorship, let's be more.

I replied elsewhere, on my opinions about SOPA and PIPA. It has many people worried for freedom of information, speech, press, and assembly. But there are points raised beyond the discussion here. Link: http://terrafirmascapers.com/index.php/topic,40095.0.html I've also seen a YouTube vlogger who recommended an article by Adam Curry, which I haven't read: Adam Curry's EXCELLENT Blog Post: http://wt1.me/ycqnpz

Hmm, I thought I'd posted since Colin's reply or thereabouts. Thanks for the positive feedback and continued discussion. Like others, I really want a president and a government that know it's a good thing to keep religion out of politics, to keep separation of church and state. The possibility of theocracy's not a good one. As different as JFK and RMN were, they both did keep their presidencies (I think) out of religion. Perry and Santorum? Yikes. They would not. I've talked with one supporter of Mr. Perry. Eek. (That person claimed her opinion had nothing to do with mixing religion and politics or separation of church and state, or preference for one and only one religious view and no other faiths...and then she went on to prove my point, that she did indeed support those. Scary stuff.) @ Anthony -- Your point that we should be outspoken if we see something wrong in how a group treats people, is good, something we agree on. I had thought I'd replied that if I'd had some idea the clip was from a parody, particularly by the guys behind South Park, it might've affected my opinion (or feelings) on seeing the clip. It also caught me on a bad day, I think.

This covers much of the gamut of the ongoing debate about homosexuality. At the start of this, among the assumptions made, and one I heard/read as a teen and young adult, was the assumption that gays are more promiscuous. No. I am quite sure most of the heterosexual people I know have had far, far more chances to find someone without risk of offense or harm, and far more actual experience, whether that's as kids experimenting or teens beginning to date or adults seeking a partner. Are some gay people more sexually active? Probably, but are they any more active than some heterosexual people? Probably not. And my imression is, being gay means you have fewer chances to find that person, at whatever stage in life, or however active you might be, unless you're in that small number, straight or not, who are promiscuous anyway. I had to wonder how many of those 50's, 60's, and 70's kids getting anti-gay messages drilled into them wondered why their families and churches and schools thought they (the kids) were "with a homosexual" or might be one themselves...or how it must've felt to begin knowing you're gay and have to live through all that. -- And yet, I grew up in the 70's and 80's, and I grew up with that message that being a gay (or homo or fag or queer) was not acceptable, and was likely to get you beaten up or called out or gossiped about. I dealt with that, about me and about other friends, despite none of us (as far as I know) being "involved" with each other in any way other than being friends. -- Yes, it gets to me how people did that and still do that. -- Yes, things are getting better, but the attitude is still too prevalent. Kids/teens still bully or ostracize kids or teens for being (or seeming) gay. ----- But there are two other things that surprised me personally. -- One, imagine my surprise hearing my hometown news anchors in an article I'd heard at that time. (Houston's Channel 13's Dave Ward and iirc, Melanie Lawson). -- Two, Asher, one of the boys who committed suicide over the past few years, went to a school in the same school district I went to and graduated. I didn't know his family, but you can imagine how it felt to hear it on the news, and know that boy was from a school much like when I grew up. (That school was built after I graduated.) It brought to mind memories of my own school years. We live in a time when there is some change for the good, real chances for lasting improvement. But there are many who don't want that to happen and are actively working to tear down what little progress there has been, and deny even the need or the reality. This must change. Or I fear it will get so bad that even the most ordinary of other affection will be deemed too inappropriate. That's no exaggeration. Just ask teachers about policies on any display of affection, including hugging, among students, or between a student and an adult.

I am so glad that some people see gay, lesbian, and bi people as good parents. It even happens in my state. It isn't common, but it's there. These may be the kids of parents who divorced. Or these may be kids adopted or fostered, and who need, very much need, a good home. Being an older kid, or disabled, or whatever other factors make a kid "hard to place" means that kid needs a hom, a family, love, friendship. "Hard to place" -- too often means, "many people are too hard-hearted to want this child." (Note the difference between that and "unwanted," becuase there are people who would want a kid, regardless of whatever he or she has been through.) LGBT people often know full well what it is like to feel unwanted or rejected by some group of people. This means there is at least one qualification there that gives them something in common, an empathy, with a "hard to place" kid who may feel like he or she has been bypassed a few times too often. As a teen imagining my future, my expectations and wishes and goals, of course I thought I'd have that wife and kids, dog and cat, home and yard and white picket fence, the ideal family. When it began to dawn on me I was gay, one of the things that discouraged me was that, not only did I not expect a spouse (at the time, I couldn't yet imagine a boyfriend, being one or having one, let alone a partner) but I thought that meant no chance at having children, biological or adopted. In my world-view at the time, and even at college age, I thought there was no way a gay man (or a gay couple or partners) would be allowed to be a parent. Much as the idea of a boyfriend didn't seem possible, so didn't having kids. (The boyfriend issue was negative self-image as much as social pressure or any actual experience.) It did not occur to me why I was wrong about those assumptions, either. I believed in my heart that because I was gay, that meant being a dad, having a son or daughter, would not be possible. It was a hurtful thing. I loved my family. I wanted to pass on all that love and togetherness and nurturing. -- In that, I was no different than most gay kids who come to the realization that they're gay and therefore, their lives will be affected in ways they did not plan on, couldn't have foreseen. -- And I was, of course, wrong. There are gay parents out there. Their kids are great kids. My parents considered adoption, sometime after it became clear to them that they weren't going to have the six kids my mom said they'd wanted, only me. Unfortunately, they told me while I was still a kid that they had considreed adoption and didn't. That marked one of the starts of a change in our relationship. Oddly enough, I felt somehow rejected too, that they hadn't further considered adopting a brother or sister. There's more to all that, on both sides, of course, but I always thought what a shame it was that they gave in to doubts and didn't adopt. It could've made a huge difference for all of us, myself, the adopted sibling, and my parents. As a gay man whose parents and grandparents are now deceased, with no siblings and all other relatives far away, and most friends not nearby, oh, does the idea of family (and friends) hold appeal for me. Gay folks have one other skill that's very important: They often have to create a support network of friends and "family by choice" or "created family." These are people who make up for the biological family gay people may lack. The ability to discern who is close enough to be family, to choose someone (and have them choose you) as family is a vital skill. (Vital: lively, live-giving.) That is, too, exactly what an adopted or fostered child needs: Someone, a group of people, who choose him or her as family, one of the deepest connections we humans make to one another. I wish someone had told me, when I was a boy and a young man coming to grips with being gay, that I did not have to give up on the dream of being and having a husband or partner and having kids to share my life with. It would have made a big difference if I'd understood that, been able to see that was possible instead of impossible. I think it's one of the things we all still face today, whether first facing that we might not be entirely straight, or whether starting that life on our own. Or even, like me, starting a new stage in life. I am really starting over, almost from scratch, but I am having real trouble letting go and taking that bold leap out into the unknown but intriguing world of new possibilities. Yes, it's a digression. But I wish happiness and more, belonging and acceptance, by choice, for all those out there who need a family, and that includes those kids needing adoption and fostering, as well as those who simply need a family, a parent, a sibling, a child. And I really wish some people could get over the idea that being gay is somehow unfit or immoral or...whatever. I am at least as moral and fit as any of the other people out there wandering around being parents and siblings and children of families. I am a lot more celibate / less promiscuous than those opposing think too, but that's really even less of their business than how fit I'd be to be a dad. It wouldn't be their family, their ideals, so...keep your noses out of it, would you? Thanks.

Yeah, it's different for everyone. If I know someone, if I get a good feeling about them, and particularly if they're a friend, I'm likely to be OK with a hug, pat on the shoulder, etc. But if you think about it, there's usually body language before that, unless you're very comfortable with each other, already know each other well, so that you know the other person's boundaries. Such as, someone opens their arms to invite hugging each other. The best I've felt recently was when someone I'd just met that morning gave me a great hug. I really, really needed that hug. It felt fantastic. Understand, though, that except for family, very close friends, and at church (when I go) I am otherwise very unused to hugs or other close contact. -- The hug I got was unexpected, but exactly what I needed. But it was also very uncharacteristic. I grew up that it was fine to hug close friends, family, church family/friends, but I got the message early on that, for example, other kids (esp. boys) at school or not so close friends might balk or outright not welcome contact. So I grew up very reticent about it. Also, because of other teasing growing up, I put up shields, so to speak, unless I've grown to feel comfortable with a friend. Dropping those shields is...well, I don't want to sound too stoic or closed off, because I'm not, but I'm cautious by long experience. I don't think I'm outside of the norm on that. For a guy, I might be more open than I think. And yes, trying to qualify it shows just how, well, isolated or distanced (alien) I sometimes feel from most people -- despite *wanting* closeness, friendship. But each person is different. I get what EleCivil is saying about how he feels. Didn't know he was quite that wary or uncomfortable about it. But yes, I've known friends who were like that. Thing is, I *like* EleCivil a lot. :) Free hug, dude. And yeah, a hug is a different thing than other touch. But like EC and James and Pecman have said, unwelcome touch or touch in certain ways or regions of the body? Nope, not classy and a good way to make a bad impression or get hit. -- I'm pretty easygoing. Not usually super aggressive. But yeah, if you surprised me, or really freaked me out, did something out of line, then yes, I might react on instinct to defend myself, to be aggressive. (Whether I'd freeze a second or have thought enough to warn someone might depend on just how startled I was.) In other words, piss off or startle or insult even a usually not so aggressive guy, and you'll find he's just as human and aggressive as anyone else. So, be open but careful. Don't just haul off and get touchy-feely. Show a little class, don't just grope. If someone says no, they mean no. If they're interested, they'll give you other signals instead of a no. But no is no.

Bruin, thank you. Despite having doen audio recording for a while now, I still feel like a babe in the woods on the hardware. That mixer solution was *much* cheaper than I'd expected. I've ordered it. We'll see how it goes when it gets here. -- The latency issue has been driving me nutty. OK, nuttier. Another friend suggested a *very* expensive microphone, but ehh, not doing that now. At some point soon, I'll check a local store for information and maybe buy something. Trying the (hopefully) simple and cheap first.

There is one flaw in Gee's plan: You need mass, or at least energy, to replicate something. A transporter, you don't have that issue. But a replicator, you have to feed in stuff to recycle, and you need the right raw elements, unless your replicator is so gee-whiz cool (oh, sorry, Gee) that it can transmute elements. In other words, your replicator needs to be shovelled full of **** before it can output more stuff, and if you want anything fancy, it needs the "fancy" elements, gold, silver, whatever. (Silicon, though, is ludicrously common. A few sacks of sand and you have most of a new computer, just not the fancy bits.) So, all of a sudden, the junk dealer and garbage man are the big business tychoons supplying the replicators with raw materials. That, and you can recycle your own...well, all kinds of things. However, still a good idea to keep composting and fertilizing the veggies and flowers and trees. Gotta have good food. EleCivil's right about the custom made items. That's the expectation what'll happen to printing. Everything's ebooks, but you can get a genuine, autographed, collector's edition, museum quality copy of your favorite book for the right price. Oh, and it'll be gift wrapped too, in a handsome keepsake box! OK, fine. Could someone work on the cloning lab, please? I want to order a custom-designed boyfriend to my specifications. And no, he won't be a clone of me. In fact, he might be completely different from anyone I know. But hmm, let's see.... Uh, and if I did try a clone of myself for a boyfriend, well...oh dear, there's all sorts of problems with that, aren't there? Um, I wonder...would two clones be.... Wait, how much is that going to cost? Are you kidding me? Oh man, no way! I want my money back! Or at least the clone! What happens if I get the discount rate? Oh. Really? Wow. I get Bubba, huh? And he's kinda short and.... Sigh. Well, wait a sec. If Bubba there still has the personality traits I wanted...hey, Bubba! Yippee! Huh? Oh, the super-discount rate is the blow-up doll? Fully functional, you said? Er, just how fully, uh, functional, er, um.... Golly, I'm not sure about that. Bubba, come home!

I'm really appreciating the other comments. Right, not cool to hassle someone who has said no. Don't take it further or tease. It isn't going to make an intolerant person more friendly, and is far more likely to make them openly hostile. It won't help if that person is gay, but not attracted to the particular person. Hey, it happens. It's not different than the woman telling the guy no and then spraying him. Right, if someone grabs your privates without asking (really nicely) then he or she is likely to regret it. I'm sure I'd be shocked for a second and then say no or yell, before turning it physical, because that's never happened before, to me. But hey, if you want to touch what I've got, you'd better be someone I know and like, and you should ask nicely first. I'd likely be surprised and have to think a little about it. But don't just grab. Not classy. Points go to EleCivil and Cole for brevity: "Talking is not the same as touching." "Pinching a butt is miles away from groping a crotch." Uh, but Cole, *miles*? ...Even so, both true and slightly humorous, though it wasn't intended to be humorous. It sounds like the two guys are making up things to justify what they did. I can understand saying no. I can understand getting physical if saying no is ignored. I can understand both at the same time, if someone grabs privates. But those guys don't get to beat the snot out of a guy or kill him. Persuade someone not to pursue things, sure. Bash or kill? Nope, unacceptable.