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Vista Better than Windows 7


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I sent the following to Micro$oft:

Sorry to not have something more positive, but I have to tell you that after several months of trying to comply with Windows 7's new ways, I have to go back to XP, or I will never finish my projects.

Specifically, the search system is very slow, does not list what I want and I know the files are there, but search can't find them.

The places bar is useless as it does not allow for having two variations of folders with the same name on different drives. The navigation in the save/open dialogues is cumbersome and at times unworkable, as well as being inconsistent between applications which were consistent in XP.

Menu system is crazy, but more than that it is inefficient and time consuming.

What is needed perhaps is a no frills OS for power users based on XP, with structure of folders and the system interface being customisable by the end user, and not by people who don't understand the practical needs of actually achieving a productive output.

It isn't that I can't see and understand how you want us to use Windows 7, it's just that it won't do the job.

Vista was actually better in one regard, it only took a day to realise it was unworkable. Windows 7 makes you think for several weeks, that it might be serviceable. Unhappily it isn't.

I feel heaps better now that I have got that off my chest. :wav:

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Go get'em, Des!

I'm very unhappy with Vista. Of all the systems I've used, XP was the best, but it too was flawed. How can a company be the biggest and sell the most when it makes a shitty product?

C

Don't ask me Cole, I think they must have something against hiring LGBT people, I'm sure we could operate a better system than Windows.

We could call it Rainbows, and it would look very pretty. At least it would be honest as it would play 'Somewhere over the Rainbow, bullshit flies,' when it booted up. :wav:

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And you can always buy a Mac.

But seriously... there's always 3rd party add-on programs that will add this kind of functionality to searching for files and stuff like that. I can't help you with the open/save dialog box or menus, though. That stuff I just shrug, grit my teeth, and get through it. Note that some of that has to do with how each individual software producer implements the user interface in their own products. For example, Adobe always has to do things differently.

I use a 3rd party add on for file organization and stuff on the Mac, but even straight out of the box, it's usable. Not ideal. Red Hat Linux is much, much worse, IMHO.

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You might want to look into the latest version of Ubanutu.

One reviewer called it the closest anyone has come yet to the perfect desktop.

Ubanutu? I think the reviewer was being quite kind, unless he means all OSes are miles from perfection, but Ubuntu (note spelling) is an inch or two closer than anyone else. I use it all the time and yes, the latest version is very good, and getting better rapidly.

Tomorrow I have to buy a new box for a friend, which will be pre-loaded with Windows 7. She will then give me her old box, containing all her data and a load of applications, and Windows XP, and she'll expect me to return her the new box fully configured, and with all her data and apps in place. It'll be the first time I've seen Windows 7 and I'm expecting trouble. If you don't hear from me again you'll know I've killed myself...

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R.I.P.

Her lies Bruin, his casket is in the 7th window. He's the one with the fragmented finger nails. :wav:

I solved the explorer file manager debacle with a 3rd party file manager called Xplorer2. Anyone who liked Norton Commander will find this better.

But even Xplorer2 can't avoid being imposed upon by Windows 7's search engine, but at least you can see what is happening.

Yes Pec, you are correct there are 3rd party search programs and I have two that between them, do what the old XP search did without complaining.

I went to Firefox, but have to use IE 8 to do the Windows updates. (Firefox, by the way uses 92,000MB memory and crashes a lot. IE 8 uses 11,000Mb memory and is slower. Thunderbird is a real improvement over the replacement for Outlook Express.)

I still don't understand what the Win7 Libraries actually achieve, except to annoy me.

The forced change of work pattern to accommodate the new inefficient save/open dialogues is enough to make me throw the computer against the wall.

I can't wait to see what Windows 8 removes from the OS. I am guessing we will end up with another self installing screw-up.

There are whole forums devoted to Windows 7 on the Net, and nearly all of them report problems with Win7 freezing as well as, compatibility issues with hardware, software and the end user. It isn't just me.

Evidently the younger you are the less problem you have, because you don't know about the more functional aspects of the older OS's.

Now where did I put the 90 pound sledge hammer?

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I've been using successive versions of PowerDesk for years... and Norton Commander before that. Windows has always been deficient in file management.

PowerDesk looks like a great program, unfortunately the website says it is not compatible with Windows 7. :wav:

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I solved the explorer file manager debacle with a 3rd party file manager called Xplorer2. Anyone who liked Norton Commander will find this better.

Oh, I remember Norton Commander -- and (for DOS fans) XTree, too. Great programs.

I went to Firefox, but have to use IE 8 to do the Windows updates.

I'm not sure about that. I had heard because of the EU's lawsuit against Microsoft, they allow you to choose any default browser you want with Win7, and OS upgrades can be handled outside the browser.

My advice would be to try Chrome or Safari and see if those work better. My partner is using Chrome, and says his only problem with it is that it doesn't block pop-up ads very well (yet). But it's a very lean and mean, fast browser.

My instant cure for computer problems is this: computerprobs.gif

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Windows 7 has now frozen some 4 times since I started posting how much I am unimpressed with it.

I thought about lying and saying I love it, but then the USB flash drive I use for ReadyBoost failed to be recognised.

Removing the USB flash drive has sped up the machine even though the flash drive was supposedly well within specification for such use.

Diagnostics fails to find a fault with the flash drive, but obviously I'm better off not using it. So I have stopped flashing it, er you know what I mean... :bunny:

Maybe Ready Boost isn't as ready as Microsoft think? It certainly didn't boost things for me.

Anyone else had a Ready Boost experience?

(why do I feel like I shouldn't have asked that question?) :spank:

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Oh, I remember Norton Commander -- and (for DOS fans) XTree, too. Great programs.

I'm not sure about that. I had heard because of the EU's lawsuit against Microsoft, they allow you to choose any default browser you want with Win7, and OS upgrades can be handled outside the browser.

My advice would be to try Chrome or Safari and see if those work better. My partner is using Chrome, and says his only problem with it is that it doesn't block pop-up ads very well (yet). But it's a very lean and mean, fast browser.

My instant cure for computer problems is this: computerprobs.gif

Windows updates are handled in the Control Panel and the browser isn't involved. I use both Chrome and Firefox, I find Chrome is faster but Firefox has better add-ins for blocking ads and so forth. But, Windows Update is now a separate application than the web browser. Don't even think of mentioning IE8.

Windows 7 has now frozen some 4 times since I started posting how much I am unimpressed with it.

I thought about lying and saying I love it, but then the USB flash drive I use for ReadyBoost failed to be recognised.

Removing the USB flash drive has sped up the machine even though the flash drive was supposedly well within specification for such use.

Diagnostics fails to find a fault with the flash drive, but obviously I'm better off not using it. So I have stopped flashing it, er you know what I mean... :conga[1]:

Maybe Ready Boost isn't as ready as Microsoft think? It certainly didn't boost things for me.

Anyone else had a Ready Boost experience?

(why do I feel like I shouldn't have asked that question?) :hehe:

Now, I have installed and have been running Windows 7 in various flavors on probably 15 machines since last summer (I've installed probably a hundred copies on client computers by now).

Des, I am very surprised that your experience has been so bad. Mine hasn't been anything close to that, in fact it's been a huge improvement over Fista and XPoo. The clients where I've installed it are very, very happy with it. I can only conclude that you have some kind of configuration or hardware issue that's causing problems.

Do you have an IT guy/girl, and NOT some counter in an electronics store? You need a go-to person, a schlub like me, that can come to your house, sit with you on your computer, and help you address the issues you're having. I think a number of them could be solved by (1) training you in how to use things like search and libraries (or help you find ways to make the system operate the way you want) and (2) fixing some of the obvious configuration problems on your computer.

Case in point: Readyboost is bad on Windows 7. You should have no need to use it at all and in fact I strongly discourage it.

Instead, spend the money you would have spent on the USB stick on some more RAM for your computer. Its cheap, really easy to install and will make the biggest single difference you can make in a memory starved computer. A gigabyte goes for about 40 bucks, and all you need are 2 or 3 of them. In fact, Windows 7 pretty much demands no less than 2 GB. You can run it on less, but it will not be a pleasant experience.

Readyboost is a workaround for bad memory management in Vista. Those memory management issues were fixed in Windows 7.

I'd suggest having a qualified IT person look your system over for problems/hardware concerns. Specifically, whether or not your machine is compatible with the recommended, not required, minimum system requirements, and if your hardware drivers are not causing issues with Windows 7. And I'd get that person to help you find good ways to make the system work the way you want it to.

For anyone interested, here's why Readyboost stinks. It's designed to allow very old machines to utilize a memory stick as RAM on machines running Vista.

Vista uses a lot of RAM. It grabs all free memory and then refuses to give it back to the system if other programs need it. It uses so much that if it runs out of physical RAM it will start to use your hard drive as a substitute. When this happens your system becomes very, very slow. ReadyBoost is designed to allow Windows to use a (supposedly faster) USB stick as RAM instead of the hard drive, which, on an older computer, does make it run faster under Vista.

What usually happens, though, is that if it's not properly configured (and it hardly ever is), Windows will use the USB stick even if it doesn't need it, and that will slow your machine down quite a lot. If the hardware is bad, then it's even worse.

Windows 7 handles memory much differently. It still grabs all free memory, but then dumps it into a pool that programs can use as needed, and Windows handles that process in a very efficient way. So even on slower computers, Windows 7 is faster without Readyboost than with it.

The short version is that you are far better off purchasing additional memory or adding a faster hard drive to your machine than using ReadyBoost with Windows 7.

H

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Thanks for your reply Hoskins.

Unfortunately, locally I am the person that gets called in by friends and foes to answer the questions you suggest I ask someone else.

My computer is hardly inadequate. It has 4gig memory and yes I know about the 3gig limit in Windows 32 bit system.

No I haven't gone to 64 bit as some of my programs are not compatible (so I have been led to believe.)

The 4-core CPU is more than adequate for the system as is the graphic card. There is no limiting factor in the hardware.

Interestingly the computer has not frozen since I removed the USB flash drive and stopped using Ready Boost, so I think you have confitmed the reason for that problem, thank you.

My main beef is not with the hardware or my understanding of it, I have been building computers from scratch since 1994, so I have a fairly good idea of what is needed to put them together and keep them running.

No, my problem is that I don't want to use Windows 7 the way Microsoft seem to thinks I should.

I'm not interested in its Library structure. I have spent considerable time setting up my hierarchy of folders in relation to the way I work on various projects.

What Microsoft do not seem to get is that I want to keep my (for example) audio projects for one of my clients separate from my other clients. I do not want them clumped together in My Audio. The same goes for text documents. I want them separated into different folders on different drives.

I have 4 x 500gig drives, and haven't got anywhere near filling any of them.

The Windows 7 search tool is next to friggin' useless as is the Explorer file manager. I have a 3rd party file manager, which partially restores functionality for the way I wish to work. I am not alone, here, Google 'Windows 7 Search' and you will find a number of sites which have forums discussing how much the Win 7 search is detested and considered useless.

One of my drives is Windows XP. Xp search can find files on the Windows 7 drive that the Win7 search engine cannot find.

The Windows 7 inbuilt driver for my Sharp color laser printer will not remember the last setting during a work period. Imagine the frustration of having to reset the paper thickness, paper size and other settings every time you go to print something from within say, Photoshop. XP driver for the printer would maintain the printer setting for subsequent work in the same work period.

Similarly for the scanner, default settings are not consistent.

Much of the problem is that I want to use the OS my way, not Microsoft's way. The really frustrating point being that I spent a lot of time conforming to the way Microsoft set up XP's methods and now they have changed or removed much of the support for what I have used for so long.

The fault is not with my hardware, but with my attitude and requirements conflicting with the way Microsoft have changed the functionality of the Windows 7 interface.

My productivity is compromised, because of the less than compatible Windows 7 functionality. There are a number of sites which are reporting similar frustrations on these matters with a view for 3rd party intervention in restoring many of the functions that are desired by people, who like me, want to do things our way and not Microsoft's way.

Linux is out of the question due to program and driver unavailability.

It seems that younger computer users do not have the problems with the OS that we older people have, I suspect that is because they don't know what they are missing. I see them taking very long-winded productivity paths to do what the older system could very easily and quickly, but is no longer available.

I think also that the Win 7 folder structure is meant for the single purpose user and as such does not allow for multi-tasking storage, segregation and grouping of projects into different folders on multiple drives. Lumping my AwesomeDude files in the same area as my Tax files under Mydocuments is something I (and others) want more control over than Windows 7 easily provides.

I should add that all the useless Aero stuff has been disabled as a matter of course. I'm a minimalist when it comes to GUIs.

I don't mean to sound harsh or unappreciative of your comments Hoskins, indeed quite the opposite, I really appreciate your helpful comments, but the fault is with Windows 7 and my compatibility with it.

I would probably have the same problem with driving a hovercraft instead on my 1986 internal combustion car. :hehe:

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oof, lol, M$.... where to start :P

no, I won't be going there :P I grew up with mac since I was 8 (mac 2 to be precise, buillding year is also my birthyear) and when M$ was introduced into my life, I was the only one in this household. my dad works in the printing trade and only uses mac, my mum only uses mac and well, I love mac.

So i hated my first M$ it was an 98 but I could game on it and it was useful for school, after that I got my XP I liked it because I could go on the net with it but I still hated the way it worked.

A couple of ears later I bought a eee pc with Xandros and I immediately became a huuuuge Linux fan. Linux looks better, works better and does what I want when I want it. Too bad gaming on it is quite hard.

For the course I'm taking right now I needed a laptop so I bought a gaming laptop with Vista.... hell all over... It didn't do what i wanted it gave errors all the time and uuugh blehhhhh..... so as soon as I could I got myself Win7 and started working with that. It is okay but as soon as I get the laptop back from the company i'll prob just use it for gaming.... since that is the best M$ can do... I use linux for all the other stuff....

i'm pretty versatile when it comes to computers but I choose Mac over M$ any day and Linux over the both of them!

but right now I'm wondering what it actually is that you mostly use....

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Hi Des,

Well, the concept of third party tools to supplement an operating system - whatever it is - isn't anything new. We've all been doing that for years.

Libraries are nothing but virtual folders, i.e. an indexed list of everything in the locations included in it. In my case, the libraries are invaluable. I multitask, constantly (three computers on my desk, multiple monitors, etc). Since a library is virtual, i.e. it's just a set of pointers to folders and is really just an index, I create and delete them constantly, and I generally have a library for each project I'm working on along with several other core libraries. I own a company and I have clients. The client folders are within the documents library but are actually not stored in the documents folder in the file system. They are kept on a different drive. When I save a file to a client folder, it is available to me in the Documents library, the Company library, and the Clients library, even though it's only stored in one spot. This keeps me from having the shortcuts I needed under Windows XP. It also means that the file is cross-referenced in different search results.

Windows search is based on libraries, it's all a big extension of the windows indexing service (which is what Windows XP search uses), so if search isn't working, it's probably because the indexing services is jacked up somehow.

Anyway, if you really hate libraries, banish them:

http://lifehacker.com/5354879/disable-the-...re-on-windows-7

The libraries will be gone after a restart.

Second, download and install Everything from Voidtools: www.voidtools.com. It's a replacement for windows search and its blindingly fast and finds, uh, everything. And it's free.

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Thanks again, Hoskins. Libraries have now been removed.

I already have 'Everything" search. It is okay, but doesn't search inside files. Not a big problem for me.

Well, the concept of third party tools to supplement an operating system - whatever it is - isn't anything new. We've all been doing that for years.

Yes, I lament the old PCTOOLS for Windows (3.11.)

Also the the program from Germany if memory serves me correct, called New Menu For Windows.

Both of these programs were 16 bit and so did not transfer at all to Windows 95 and beyond.

They provided the means to click on the mouse and have appear at the mouse cursor, a menu which would expand to show every file and folder on every hard disc. They could be arranged to show as a priority, whatever folder you desired.

I found a program in the late 90s called TrayMenu, which could also show everything on the computer as per a predetermined folder. (it's complicated.)

(Another program now has the same title of Traymenu and is not related to the program above.)

I believe TrayMenu was the program that caused Microsoft some consternation, or maybe it was coincidence that both the program and its designer have not been seen on the Net for sometime. In any case it is still functional, and still available from some sites. It is a difficult and time consuming program to get working and Windows 7 doesn't help, but it is still possible to get it to work. Imagine the convenience of being able to click anywhere, in any program and have access (with full context menu) to any file, folder or drive on your computer. Magic!

But what does M$ give us? Libraries, and a limited function file manager (Explorer) with equally limited navigation.

To add insult to injury, the places bar, in Office applications as well as other programs (Photoshop) that use a places bar, now suffer limited navigation and access to folder paths. The open/save dialogues do not show the path and thus I cannot be certain which version of my files (in different folders) it thinks I want.

I freely admit to using every work-around I can to continue working in my own stubborn way. After all I did spend a considerable effort in time and work to abide by the system that M$ setup from the release of Windows 95 upto and including XP, accommodating several changes and removals of functionality with each new release.

Windows 7 offers no advantage to my method of working, in fact it detracts from it considerably with its new configuration.

And therein lies my problem, it is my method of productivity which is at odds with how M$ now wants me to work. This new method impedes my work flow and quite frankly is in my opinion, at odds with the once rational protocols of the earlier versions of the Windows operating system.

I wonder if those who like the Mac OS are happier with Windows 7, because to me it is just as annoying.

So for those of you who think I am nuts, I do admit that the problem is mine in that I just simply cannot spend the time to work out how to use Libraries and the other indirect means of using the Win 7 OS.

To help understanding of my frustration I will tell you that I take little comfort in knowing that if the current course of Windows development continues, then eventually, each of you who do find you can cope with the new features, will one day find yourself in my position when M$ removes them or replaces them with yet another obnoxious and frustrating alternative which upsets the way you work.

Don't think it will happen? Don't bet on it, and just remember someone once told you it would happen. :hehe:

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By the way, removing the Libraries as per the linked article in Hoskins' post above, freed up over 100Mb of memory. Now that is handy.

Thanks again to Hoskins, you are worth your weight in gold. :hehe:

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Another Windows 7 Tweak.

Microsoft did not provide a way to customize the places bar. This is the vertical bar that appears on open/save dialogues with shortcuts to various folders on the hard drive. This small program allows you to customize up to 5 places as it was possible to do in Windows XP. It can also be done by editing the Registry, but this program makes it simpler and easier.

See the program and download from here. or here.

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The "places bar" has been replaced by Favorites. You can drag folder names into Favorites. It also includes a "Recent Places" entry that shows recent folders you accessed. I find both the Favorites and Recent Places features to be much more useful than Vista's "places bar".

Colin :icon13:

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