Graeme

Here's hoping you get your Christmas wish!

A good example of how an editor (and author) has to know more than just writing. I will admit that I didn't spot it until I read vwl's answer.

I'll just say that I didn't have any real problem reading it as it was.... I liked chapter 2 as well, and I'm now waiting to see what happens next. Graeme :)

I've started writing a new story and I'm using third person POV for the first time (at least in a long story). I want to use multiple POVs, but the feedback I've received from a reader indicates that it's not working well. My original intention was to have one POV per chapter, but I'm now concerned that this is dragging things out too much. What I've got planned is a story with three main POVs and set of minor ones. Should I try to stick with one POV per chapter? The complaint about that was it left the reader waiting to see what happened next to that character, which could be several chapters further down the track. If I did it that way, they suggested I try to publish the complete story in one shot, so the reader isn't left waiting for an extended time. Should I switch to multiple POVs per chapter, as appropriate, so that the story is tighter, but at the expense of breaking the readers "connection" with the characters as the POV changes? Any suggestions/recommendations/comments?

Fantastic news! Now I know why I haven't heard much from you recently Seriously -- well done! :) Graeme

While I appreciate the sentiments that you intend, I would advise against taking this approach. There is too much chance of offending an unknown author by presenting a set of edits of their story unannounced and unsolicted. Editting (as distinct from pointing out a few typos while commenting on their story) should be done via a mutual agreement. Even pointing out typos can offend some authors, though hopefully not most. My opinion only, of course. Graeme

A number of these questions/comments were raised as part of the Editing demo that was conducted back in June: http://www.awesomedude.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=690 My view, as an author and NOT an editor, is that there is a continuum of editing skills that range from the fine detail technical proofing right up to big picture plot/story commentary. Few editors would be skilled at the entire range, though most would be competent throughout the entire spectrum. Would it be worthwhile doing another such exercise with different editors? The ones involved last time were WBMS, Aaron, AJ and Talonrider. Graeme

Very nice photos, Gabe! You've got a good eye for composition. Personally, I don't find photography helps with writers block, but I still enjoy it anyway. I just don't have the creative mind to work out what will make a good photo. I just tend to take lots of pictures and hope a few turn out well. Graeme

I've locked the other thread for you.

Thanks, WBMS! I'm sorry, but you'll have to wait. If you REALLY insist, I can send you a draft of NB 23, but I think you're better off waiting for the editted version. I've always found them to be a lot stronger than the drafts. Cheers! Graeme :D

Thanks for the votes of confidence, guys, but I think we should wait until I bring the story to a close. A good movie, like a good story, has a good ending. I'm hoping I can bring New Brother to a satisfactory close but that remains to be seen. Graeme

*Note to self after reading part 2: Don't let TR or Angel know where the wine from the Yarra Valley that the New Brother crew brought in has been stored*

WARNING: Never underestimate the sneaky Australians..... :twisted: Well done, TR! I look forward reading chapter two next week! Graeme :D

Well, if you want an alternative interpretation, it looks to me that they are asking you not to juggle the post-it notes. After all, that's what the message is written on. If they didn't want you to juggle the eggs, they'd have written it on the eggs themselves....

I'd have to say that for me the number one thing that makes a character memorable is simply when they are individuals. It's so easy to make either all the characters the same, or to make them all stereotypes. There has to be some personality there that you can look at and recognise as being different to the others. An example I used recently with someone was from the TV show M.A.S.H. Frank Burns was a two-dimensional character. There was no depth to him. His replacement, Charles Winchestor the Third, on the other hand, was definitely a three dimensional character. He had depth and while you could guess what he was going to do, he would surprise us every-so-often, but always in a way that (in hindsight) was in character. That uncertainty is part of what makes a character "real" and it's the "real" characters that tend to be memorable. The others just fade back into the crowd. There are a number of ways to start to make a character stand out. The simpliest is to give them an unusual name. The danger is if you end up making this into a gimmick, but equally it could help drive the plot ( the songe "A boy named Sue" springs to mind). Some strong unique feature also can help. Physical features are harder to use because pictures are not generally included with the stories. I will admit I used both this and the name feature with my characters Giant and Stick in New Brother. The nicknames, and the physical characteristic that they came from, helped them stand out from the other characters in the story. However, none of this will help unless the personalities shine through. This is, for me at least, the hardest part -- making sure each character is not a clone of the others. Their attitudes to life have to be different. Some of this can evolve through the story. I'll admit that the more I wrote, the more "complete" my visualisation of my characters in New Brother became. I had a rough idea of their personalities when I started, but I found a lot more depth as I kept writing about them. My opinion only, of course. Graeme

Trab, I think it would be worthwhile taking a couple of extra people up on their offers. Not only does it give you the advantage of multiple opinions, but it also gives you options to consider. I will certainly not be offended if you end up picking someone else's summary, as it is the end goal that is important, not who does the work. Graeme

He's been sighted at some message boards occasionally, but that's about all.

Different authors have different approaches to proofreading. I believe most (but not necessarily all) of the authors here at AwesomeDude will be happy to receive feedback on posted chapters that includes possible proofing errors. If you read Jamie's essay titled Criticism: A Primer for Writers (accessible from the Essays link on the home page), you will find he won't mind receiving your comments. Graeme

Well done, Blue! That's exactly how I felt when I went to a gay bar in Brisbane... that everyone there was so ordinary, even to have a few kids running around (and as I seem to have shocked a lot of Americans when I tell them that, kids are allowed in most bars in Australia if they are accompanied by their parents/guardians. They just aren't allowed to buy or consume alcohol). That was one of my early steps in my coming to terms with being gay. Simply seeing ordinary people, many of which just happened to be gay, made a big difference to me. Cheers and congratulations! Graeme :D

If there is not a rush to get this done, I'm willing to give it a go. I would, however, suggest getting at least a couple of people working on it, just in case. Graeme

Please refer to the thread I started on Cliffhanger Theory... :twisted:

:hello1: :headbang: =D> Well done, TR! I'm sure there are depths to it that I haven't spotted, but I thought it was great! Graeme :D

Danny's Ghost Story can be found at DrakeTales: www.draketales.org Click on Stories, then Short Stories, then Danny/Ghost. It's a bit long to be called a short story, more a novella, but I found it fasinating. Since we are on a Halloween theme at the moment, I thought I'd bring it to people's attention. Sorry, no comments on the plot as I don't like giving spoilers. :twisted: Graeme

Thanks for the comments. I've read the same thing about the use of adverbs, but I've using them heavily anyway because otherwise the dialogue feels weak to me. I also appreciate what you said about the use an action as a verb. However, I believe that writing is generally stronger if the same feeling can be conveyed with fewer words. I don't believe anyone would fail to understand what occured. I liked your alternative, and if this was a "key" statement, I'd probably use it. However, if it was part of a larger piece, the more concise version would be less disruptive. I will admit that I still have a lot to learn, which is why I asked the question and why I'm continuing the discussion. I want to understand why the use of adverbs and adjectives should be avoided unless necessary, so I can then use them intelligently. Graeme

I've recently seen a comment that most of the time dialogue should stand by itself. However, I find that the way something is said is often as important as the words themselves. "He used to be my boyfriend," Paul said. To me, that sentence is lacking. I don't know enough to be able to picture it. "He used to be my boyfriend," Paul growled. "He used to be my boyfriend," Paul sighed. "He used to be my boyfriend," Paul said nonchalantly. "He used to be my boyfriend," Paul said warningly. These say a lot more to me than the original. The first shows he's still angry about it. The second shows a wistfulness about the situation. The third indicates Paul is over it. The fourth indicates that maybe Paul is planning on getting is ex-boyfriend back, or possibly that the ex is someone to be avoided. Now, I do this a lot in my writing. Is this just a question of style, or am I going overboard with trying to convey the emotion and feeling that goes with the words?