Graeme

It's divurging from what should be the real topic of this thread, but there is an essay written by Jamie on the subject of criticism for authors available on this site which I found quite interesting. In a subsequent email exchange, he indicated that he was also going to do one for readers, but I haven't seen anything yet *hint, hint Jamie :-D * Different authors handle and expect different things as far as criticism is concerned. Like ArchangelMatthew72, I'm quite happy to take an honest, if blunt, critique of one of my stories, because I can see what they are trying to say. The message, to me, is often more important than the delivery. However, even so we are dealing with real people on both sides of the communication. They all have feelings and different people react in different ways to perceive criticism. As TR indicated, it is polite to work out what level and type of comment an author is happy to receive. The times I've pointed out problems to an author have been to either people who have solicited for my opinion (silly people...) or I feel confident enough that they will take my comments in the vein intended. And for the record, my first chapter of New Brother suffers from the exact same problem -- too heavy on descriptions/introductions and not enough on plot. It seems to be a common issue for new authors. Graeme

I've only been writing for a year, so I don't have a lot of experience in what you are talking about. That's never stopped me in the past from expressing an opinion and I see no reason to start now.... :-D I am presuming that by serial or soap opera, you are talking about a story that just doesn't end. It keeps going and going with an endless series of plots that get resolved but with leads into the next plot. As long as you have at least two plots going, you can end one while allowing the second to continue (and start up a third). This can be done, but I don't think I'd ever attempt it, simply because I expect to run out of ideas, and have the whole project just end with a whimper. I'm a firm believer that if something is to end, it should end clearly, not just leave things hanging because the writer(s) have run out of things to write about. Now, if you think of it like a TV show (such as E.R.), then a series of related stories, possibly with an overall theme or guiding plot, then that is a lot more palatable, as the story could be ended at any time. While I'm guilty of starting New Brother without a clear indication of how it was to finish, I can plead "new writer syndrome" in my defence. On the other hand, I had a very strong idea of how Falls Creek Lessons was going to end before I even started. The difference, to me, was very noticable. Falls Creek Lessons was a lot easier for me to write because everything was leading to a defined end. On the subject of posting immediately vs holding them -- I've found a few times that something I write in a later chapter contradicts something in an earlier one, but I don't always realise immediately. Having a delay between writing and posting helps catch these. I usually find them when I get the chapter back from the editor and realise my mistake as I go carefully over the changes. My opinion only, of course. Graeme

On the main site, down the left hand side, there is a section headed "Email Us". The Poetry editor (our esteemed Gabriel Duncan) has an email address there for you to use. Graeme :D

I've always considered 13 to be my lucky number (why? Probably just because I like being contrary). Best of luck EleCivil -- just don't put too much pressure on yourself. Graeme

I know I'm taking the thread off-topic, but I just wanted to make a comment about chapter 12.... A good chapter, but one I found disturbing. This is because I'm feeling for the characters and I would've liked some more good news for them. Having said that, well done! I'm now looking forward to chapter 13, but I'll wait a while before I start harassing for it.... :-D Graeme

Ouch! I'm sorry to hear about the damage to your car. I hope it all works out in the end, but being out of pocket is always painful. Graeme

Maybe he needs help bringing it, ah, up?:p TR :twisted: *maintains a dignified silence*

I don't think it matters. I'd tell him, but would add that that was the way it was back in the 90's. He's a modern guy -- he'll know it won't matter. Of course, you could also tell him that copying his favourite step-nephew is the best way to go.... This from someone who doesn't have his ears pierced and probably won't. Graeme

LOL! :smt068 :smt065

How about writing up your last three months as a story? It has drama, trauma, and a triumphant conclusion! Seriously, I hope things are going well. It certainly sounds like it's been an eventful time. I won't hold you to your deadline. Cheers! Graeme :D

My sense of time is a little distorted. Since it's been three months since I wrote the above, I'm guessing that's more than one week, so I can start hassling again.... I hope things are going well, EleCivil. Real life can interfere at times, so a simple heads up on what's going on should keep me placated for at least another week. Cheers! Graeme :-D

Best of luck, James. There is a lot they can do, nowadays, for damage to the eyes, so there may be some hope that it will all turn out find in the end. Fingers crossed! Graeme

I originally consider saying "queen-sized bed" but I thought that was being a bit blatant..... My wife's comment was that the sister knows, the mother knows, probably half the town knows, and it's just the dad who doesn't. Thanks for the comments, guys! Graeme :D

Thanks, everyone! Looking at the differences in opinions between editors was, I believe, part of the reason for the exercise. Exploring the reasoning behind some of the editing decisions or suggestions is another. I'm glad to see that more of those discussions are taking place. WMBS: You point is well taken. A paragraph describing the boy would jar the story off track, but small, subtle changes can help lift a story and make it much stronger -- that is one of the things I, personally, was looking to get out of this exercise. Graeme

At the risk of getting all the editors upset with me, I noticed that apart from myself, there hasn't been much in the way of comments about the editting itself, in the demo that was done. Some things for people to comment on: WBMS had the comment that he thinks I should've provided more description of the boy in the story. I had a private comment from someone saying they disagreed. It is a personal taste thing, to a degree, but what do people think? Is it better to provide a description, or let people imagine for themselves the appearance of the characters? I will concede that at the moment there is NO description, but is this necessarily a bad thing for a short story? Aaron suggested that the story should be written as first person POV, so we could see what the boy is actually thinking. My personal response to that, which I never passed back, is "I don't think so!" Writing the thoughts of someone under the age of maybe ten is probably beyond me -- I need to do more SF writing first so I can understand an alien mentality.... (as the father of a four- and six-year-old, I can attest to the fact that they DO think differently). I will always welcome feedback and suggestions like these for my writing, even if I don't take them up. But how far should an editor go in this respect? Different authors will react in different ways -- is this something that an editor should ask up front when he starts working with a new author? Going back into my little hole, now....

I'll start by saying that I haven't read the rest of the story, so I read chapter 26 standalone, not in any context. Having said that, it was remarkably clear what was going on. I think a lot of that had to do with the basic writing and not the emphasis added by the formatting, though. The underlining looked a little odd, but I thought the rest really added to the impact. For example, the "All over.... All over." part -- I could feel the emphasis and bitterness that the repetition was imparting. I wondered about some of the emphasis. For example, why the emphasis on "thick" in "a thick, white, spray-painted..."? However, as I haven't read the rest of the story, the answer may be obvious. I'll find out when I get around to reading the whole thing.... My opinion only, of course. Well done! Graeme

Thanks, Gabe and Bill for the comments. Yes, Gabe, you are correct. I think it is the "cliffhanger" as a gimmick that I probably find most objectional. When it fits the story, I don't have a problem with it. Bill, thank you very much for your comments. I didn't raise this issue because of any concerns about my writing, but simply to see what other people thought on the subject. Different authors have different styles, and different stories lead themselves to different treatment. I can remember a number of times where a chapter in a printed novel ends on a cliff hanger, and it can be quite effective -- especially when the author starts the next chapter on a different subplot and the reader has to keep waiting to find out how it is resolved. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series has this occuring more often than not. So this is a technique that CAN be applied to completed novels as well. Thanks again for the comments, guys! Graeme

The "Cliffhanger" is something that is largely only relevant to serialised work. It doesn't make a lot of sense for a story where the reader (or viewer, in the case of movies/TV shows) can just skip to the next installment. Now, I've read stories where every chapter ends in a cliffhanger. It's great for building tension, but I find it becomes incredibly annoying, especially if chapters take time to be published. Graeme's Theory on Cliffhangers: 1. Used early on in the story, they help bring the reader in until the story gets well established. 2. Used late in the story, they help build the tension before the story conclusion. 3. Don't over use in the middle section of the story. It's a case of overdoing anything can be bad (eg. too much water can kill you -- it's known as drowning). Moderation is important. Comments? Graeme

Hear, hear! Can I also add that the people (using the word lightly) responsible are only a handful. Please don't victimise the innocent because they may share ONE characteristic (eg. a claim to belong to a particular religion) with those responsible. I wish the UK members all the best. Graeme

Why do I write? As with most things, there isn't a simply answer to this. It is a combination of several items: * I enjoy writing. It is a hobby that I have fun doing (most of the time) * I enjoy receiving feedback from readers (even if they can be few and far between at times) * I also use it as a release. The last one needs explanation. I am a married man with two young children. I'm also gay. After I came out to my wife, and survived a crisis that threatened the marriage, we have agreed to stay together. My part in the deal is simply to obey my marriage vows and be faithful. My writing of gay fiction is partly a way of exploring and developing a part of myself that I will not be experiencing in real life -- a gay relationship. As a safety net, my wife reads (and critiques) everything I write. She also provides some useful input at various times -- especially in providing insight into the female characters in the stories. That's a simple breakdown of why I write. Graeme

Thank you everyone for their answers! I should state for the record that when I asked the question, I was not implying my own position. I was merely curious as to what other people thought on the subject. Graeme

Sometime ago, there was the discussion of the use of smoking in stories. At the time, the statement was made that smoking does occur and it can be quite prevalent at times. The story in question was simply reflecting reality. A response to this was that as authors we had an obligation to not promote smoking, or to make it appear as something that is "cool". Due to certain recent events, I have been thinking about these two views on the subject. While there will always be exceptions to every rule, it raised a question in my mind: Do we, as authors, have a moral obligation to ensure that our stories are not seen to promote or glamourise what we consider to be irresponsible things? I have used smoking as an example, but the same issue applies to things like unprotected sex and other things that DO occur in real life. Opinions, anyone? Graeme

I agree with the statement that in many stories, gay teens are portrayed as flawed. However, I disagree with the interpretation of this. In many stories (of all genres), characters are portrayed as flawed. This is not unique to gay ficition. A question has been made previously about WHY having flawed characters should be considered to be bad. After all, people are generally flawed. What I DO agree with is that gay teens need positive encouragement as well as education on the dangers they can face. A balance of the two is needed. I learnt this lesson from the feedback I got on Falls Creek Lessons. Readers enjoyed what was essentially a romance. I've promised myself I'll write another one at some stage, but I also find the other, more angst-ridden, stories equally important. Unless I am in the mood for what I saw someone call "text porn", I usually skip graphic sex scenes in stories. Drug usage usually leaves me with a "ho-hum" feeling. I don't like seeing it, but if it doesn't start to dominate the story, I don't have a major concern. The only recreational drug I've ever taken is alcohol, and while I've considered others a couple of times, I've never really been that interested. I can see how reading about it could influence some people, and for that I think your concern has some merit. While reality has some sway with fiction, it should not be used as the rule. As an example, I recently tried writing a short story with how I felt a gay teenager SHOULD be treated. I gave myself a challenge and decided I wanted to write a "happy" story. Unfortunately, the muses have gone away at the moment, so the story is sitting half written. Ficition can be used for a number of purposes. It can educate people about what is happening in the real world. It can let people escape from the real world. It can help someone understand that they are not alone in the real world. All of these are legitimate uses of fiction. Insisting on "reality" means that the story can't be used to escape. Denying that certain things DO occur means that the story can't be used to educate those ignorant, or help readers realise they aren't alone. Excuse me? I didn't realise you wrote silly little poems. I've only seen the good stuff..... Graeme

Actually, all I'd said was that it wasn't a "gay" story. Okay, I'll conceded that even when I wrote it I had once adult voice as the mum and one as the dad, but I wanted to avoid indicating the sexes. As a purely cultural exercise, I'm interested in whether it was an assumption that the "breadwinner" was the male and the "homemaker" was the female, or did I use inadvertant clues to lead you to that assumption (such as the reference to shopping). I want to re-work the story with the feedback I've been given, but I'll have to admit that the muses are currently on vacation. I'll do it when I can.... Graeme

On the subject of hermit crabs, I know for a fact that they can be found in the water along the Noosa river in Queensland, as I have sat down with my boys to watch them.... A tidal river or lake has a flow of water as the ocean rises and falls, but doesn't have a lot of water movement outside of this. This stops it from becoming brackish. In one sense, it can be considered to be an extension of the ocean, but surrounded by land to prevent waves (like an extremely well-sheltered bay). Graeme