Sunburnt Aussies

[Trab]

Most illegals work under the table and do not get taxed, yet take advantage of school systems for their kids, public transportation, hospitals, etc., which are all paid for by tax money.

In all fairness, how could the illegal immigrants do anything BUT work under that table? If they wanted to pay taxes, they couldn't do so without immediately being charged and removed. When I graduated from high school, the Superintendent of the school district pointed out something which I've always remembered, and that is that when you pay your taxes, you are paying for the education you have already received. In other words, it's not that illegal immigrants are not paying for their children's education, no-one is. You pay it back yourself, later. As for taking advantage of public transportation, don't we just wish that more citizens did that, instead of driving their SUVs and leaving 'green' behaviour to the illegals. Last I heard, hospitals in the USA are private money grabs and not public endeavors which are free for all.

I don't even know why the whole discussion went to illegal immigration anyway. I guess it was just a thread highjack.

To be honest, my biggest concern with ANY immigration is accepting people who haven't grown up under 'the rule of law' and have lived in a 'survival of the strongest and meanest' type of society. They come here, and totally do not care about any of our laws, take what they want, and laugh at our courts. Those are the real problem makers, not the people who are just eeking out a minimal living, whether illegally in the country or not.

[Insomniac]

In all fairness, how could the illegal immigrants do anything BUT work under that table? If they wanted to pay taxes, they couldn't do so without immediately being charged and removed. When I graduated from high school, the Superintendent of the school district pointed out something which I've always remembered, and that is that when you pay your taxes, you are paying for the education you have already received. In other words, it's not that illegal immigrants are not paying for their children's education, no-one is. You pay it back yourself, later. As for taking advantage of public transportation, don't we just wish that more citizens did that, instead of driving their SUVs and leaving 'green' behaviour to the illegals. Last I heard, hospitals in the USA are private money grabs and not public endeavors which are free for all.

I don't even know why the whole discussion went to illegal immigration anyway. I guess it was just a thread highjack.

To be honest, my biggest concern with ANY immigration is accepting people who haven't grown up under 'the rule of law' and have lived in a 'survival of the strongest and meanest' type of society. They come here, and totally do not care about any of our laws, take what they want, and laugh at our courts. Those are the real problem makers, not the people who are just eeking out a minimal living, whether illegally in the country or not.

I love how you pick apart details Bart, I think you were a lawyer in a prior life . And I agree whole-heartedly about the trouble makers, they pose a true problem within our societies. I do realise they can only work under the table, but that is why they should make it easier to become legit and have extremely stiff penalities for those who are not.

[Hylas]

I can understand why illegal immigrants come to America, but I certainly don't agree with it. Most illegals work under the table and do not get taxed, yet take advantage of school systems for their kids, public transportation, hospitals, etc., which are all paid for by tax money.

There are certainly a lot of filipino illegals. But not as much as mexicans, cubans, etc. :P

I see way too many immigrant and second generation immigrants who have subsidised incomes and leech off of our welware systems that are there to help hard working, tax paying Americans when they need it.

Uhm... How exactly would they do that? LOL. I can only speak for filipino illegals, though I don't know any personally, I've seen documentaries about their lives. They are called 'TNT's which is an acronym for 'Tago ng Tago' (Filipino for "Always Hiding"). And I can say their lives are far from being the easy, tax-free, freedom you imagine it to be. They are wretched.

LOL. You were speaking of taxing someone who in most cases work for a pittance of what a legal resident gets.

1) Employers take advantage of their illegal alien status (and in some cases, inability to speak english) to reduce them to the lowest possible salary. Some even to slavery.

2) They can't ask help from the police/social welfare/etc. for protection/food/shelter/medicine. They'll just get deported. That means no hospitals/education/marriage/homeless shelters. etc.

3) They're also working to feed a family back home, and not for themselves alone.

America was originally a nation of immigrants.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

I find it really sad that the US, one of the world's richest countries, exists border-to-border with one of the poorest - Mexico.

I understand that the US has no obligation to help other countries, and that they are facing terrorist/drug threats. But... oh... i don't know.... America's xenophobia is simply adding more to the gradually mounting hostility against the US you know.

Sorry. I'm ranting. ^^

[Insomniac]

There are certainly a lot of filipino illegals. But not as much as mexicans, cubans, etc. :P

Uhm... How exactly would they do that? LOL. I can only speak for filipino illegals, though I don't know any personally, I've seen documentaries about their lives. They are called 'TNT's which is an acronym for 'Tago ng Tago' (Filipino for "Always Hiding"). And I can say their lives are far from being the easy, tax-free, freedom you imagine it to be. They are wretched.

LOL. You were speaking of taxing someone who in most cases work for a pittance of what a legal resident gets.

1) Employers take advantage of their illegal alien status (and in some cases, inability to speak english) to reduce them to the lowest possible salary. Some even to slavery.

2) They can't ask help from the police/social welfare/etc. for protection/food/shelter/medicine. They'll just get deported. That means no hospitals/education/marriage/homeless shelters. etc.

3) They're also working to feed a family back home, and not for themselves alone.

America was originally a nation of immigrants.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

I find it really sad that the US, one of the world's richest countries, exists border-to-border with one of the poorest - Mexico.

I understand that the US has no obligation to help other countries, and that they are facing terrorist/drug threats. But... oh... i don't know.... America's xenophobia is simply adding more to the gradually mounting hostility against the US you know.

Sorry. I'm ranting. ^^

America may be the richest country but I sure as hell won't see anything near as nice as some will. I work hard for my paycheck and believe it or not my taxes go to all that reside in the country, not just the 'legal' citizens. You mention of greedy employers turning immigrants into slaves if they were 'taxed', but what is the difference now other than they would gain the rights any other citizen would (voting, bear arms, etc).

My references to the abuse of the welware system refers to legal citizens of both majority and minority who abuse the system and break laws just to skate easy through life.

And you are completely right, America does not have any obligation to help any other country. We worked hard to build what we have now and it amazes me that other people expect us to just give away what we worked hard for.

Take, for example, a peasant farming community. One farmer works his tail off and creates a new farming method that makes him substantially more money than his fellow farmers. We'll just say that the other farmer's are lazy or have no dedication. Now that he has money the other farmers in the community resent him for it and expect him to give them handouts even though he worked hard for it and they did nothing. If you want to talk about compassionately helped others in need and doing what some would call the 'Christian' thing I'm all for it, but only if I seek to and they don't expect it. It is my human right to be a greedy A-hole if I so wish to be as long as I earned my keep fair and square.

[Bruin Fisher]

Sorry. I'm ranting. ^^

Yeah, but it was a good rant, and you made some powerful points. Well done you!

[dude]

OK... This is a forum for a gay literary site... not US AM Talk Radio. The politics will cease now or this thread will disappear.

[Hylas]

You mention of greedy employers turning immigrants into slaves if they were 'taxed', but what is the difference now other than they would gain the rights any other citizen would (voting, bear arms, etc).

Huh?

No I mean. They are already being treated like that RIGHT NOW because they are illegal, not when they will be taxed. I agree though, truthfully, they'll have a better life if they were given an amnesty and legalized. But come on, when has that ever happened?

As such, they have to scrape through whatever job they can get. Hence the underground drug and sex trade becomes the only source of income for most.

my taxes go to all that reside in the country, not just the 'legal' citizens.

And whatever gave you the idea that they are enjoying the fruits of your taxes? They DON'T dare go near a hospital, coz the first thing someone will probably contact is the police. Public buses probably need an ID. So does homeless shelters. Free food. Etc. They don't benefit from those.

(BTW. Homeless people are 'legal' citizens who do not pay taxes and enjoy full social welfare, NOT the illegal immigrants. I'm not saying they shouldn't be provided those. I'm saying what does it matter to whom the government spends its taxes on as long as it helps people.)

The thing you mentioned about giving free tuition to immigrants' children is one step towards legalizing them and turning them into productive, tax-paying citizens, so why are you opposing this? If they remain uneducated because they're parents are too scared to put them to school because of the risk of being deported, then... they just grow up into gangsters, drug dealers, prostitutes, etc.

I see giving education to children, legal or illegal, as a very good way for the government to spend taxes. Think of the hundreds of billions they spend on weapons each year. That's also from your taxes. Research, Space exploration, etc. those are things the US government spend tax money on, and none of you ever directly benefit from it.

Anyway. Another rant

P.S. Insomniac, I do hope you're not taking this personally

[Hylas]

LOL sorry, your dudeness.

I zips my mouth

[DesDownunder]

That's the last time I talk about the weather.

[R.J.]

I love you, Des.

Don't stop talking about the weather on anyone's account, as long as you keep posting those news stories with those hot sunburn victims.

Maybe everyone should be required to post a picture of a sunburnt American, Canadian, Briton, French, take your pick.

[Hylas]

LOL Did I mention that the sunburnt Aussie was SIZZLING HOT?!

[Insomniac]

P.S. Insomniac, I do hope you're not taking this personally

Not at all. I like a good educated conversation.

[Hylas]

Hey!!!

I just noticed. We joined at the same day! LOL

November 9 2007!

P.S. Did I mention that the Sunburnt Aussie was SIZZLING H - oh yeah, I did.

[Insomniac]

Hey!!!

I just noticed. We joined at the same day! LOL

November 9 2007!

P.S. Did I mention that the Sunburnt Aussie was SIZZLING H - oh yeah, I did.

Wow, that's funny.

And yea, good thing he burned his back and not his face. At first glance I thought he was a model in an ad or something. I wonder if he needs any help putting lotion on his back

[R.J.]

I wonder if he needs any help putting lotion on his back

Find your own sunburn victim to put lotion on.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

YUM!

I believe that is all that needs to be said.