Can someone turn gay?

[Rad]

Hi all!

I just want to ask a nagging question:

Can someone turn gay? Like, all of a sudden?

Honestly I have never read any study about that. Those I did read say that you're gay from the womb.

Sometimes when I read stories in Nifty or here in Dude, I read story about someone who "goes"gay.

Like not for all guys but just for one person (the protagonist)

I guess I just curious at how plausible that is.

Cheers!

Rad

[DesDownunder]

In Zen, there are two schools of thought as to whether the Satori experience is a slow realisation, or an instantaneous occurrence, of enlightenment.

Much the same arguments can be made about realising one's sexual inclination.

My opinion based on my experience is yes it can be sudden.

The basic question is, can a person change?

But what does that mean?

It can mean that a person takes a long time to overcome their childhood indoctrination that they are heterosexual.

It can mean that they have never been aware that same sex relationships were even possible.

Idle curiosity can also play a part in a "sudden" awakening.

I have heard women observe that yet another guy has 'turned gay' and then add, "Once a man gets a taste of a d**k, we have lost them."

I have known people who were gay for only one person.

I have seen gay people maintain an exclusive heterosexual relationship.

I have also seen people who are bisexual, and yet would not be able to maintain a constant relationship with either sex.

But none of these really explain that moment of self-awareness that announces a person's sexuality.

Sexual identity may occur before puberty, at puberty or long after. It might even change during one's life.

Despite such things as environment and the gay gene, it seems to me that the variety of sexual relationships is much wider than just the basic ones prescribed by our individual sexual proclivity.

In this regard, I think anything is possible. It is certainly so in fiction, and I have little doubt that if someone has written it, then someone else has done it or at the very least, thought about it.

Accepting who we are, may mean accepting the reality of the moment, without judgement. That's not always easy, especially, if there is a paradoxical change.

[Trab]

I fully subscribe to the rainbow spectrum of sexuality and orientation. Just like with autism, it runs from one end to the other, and the most being in between. I think societal (and parental) pressures keep us 'locked' into whatever section is most appropriate or instantly observable, rather than us just wandering around in accordance with our true natures. While a so called straight person might abhor us being gay, and nearly 100% gay might object to us liking someone of the opposite sex. It's pigeon holing at its worst; when it can damage someone for life. Heck, we can love someone without wanting sex with them at all, and yet lust for another who we couldn't love if our life depended on it. That's considered a 'given' by most, so why can't that apply to orientation too. Like one. Love another. Have relations with someone else again. I doubt that we really change at all, at least, not dramatically, except in that we may suddenly 'discover' our true nature or become accepting of it.

[JamesSavik]

Because many cultures disapprove of homosexuality, a great many gay people repress their sexuality. While it may appear that a person may suddenly "turn gay", it has been there all along.

[Tanuki Racoon]

You're all wrong. (In my opinion.)

Let's pretend for one moment I am 100% straight (or 100% gay if it makes you happy). I go through life loving people of one gender in a Eros sort of fashion. One day I meet someone who's so perfect I think they're "the one" only that person happens to be the same sex. Does that mean I turned gay? No. I think that's horseshit. I think if you're honest with yourself you're primarily Gay/Straight and maybe now and again someone of the other persuasion just has what you need to complete you.

It's hard to pick who you love. Love happens. It's not created. In fact, I see a story there.

[DesDownunder]

You're all wrong. (In my opinion.)

Let's pretend for one moment I am 100% straight (or 100% gay if it makes you happy). I go through life loving people of one gender in a Eros sort of fashion. One day I meet someone who's so perfect I think they're "the one" only that person happens to be the same sex. Does that mean I turned gay? No. I think that's horseshit. I think if you're honest with yourself you're primarily Gay/Straight and maybe now and again someone of the other persuasion just has what you need to complete you.

It's hard to pick who you love. Love happens. It's not created. In fact, I see a story there.

Then write it.

That's what we want to see.

[The Pecman]

It's hard to pick who you love. Love happens. It's not created. In fact, I see a story there.

I think Wibby is 100% right here. My only caveat would be, there are definitely people who are 50/50, and were already capable of having sex with men or women. They might be in a hetereo relationship and exclusively straight for years. But if that breaks up (or ends), then I'd say they may be hot to trot either way.

But I agree with him that if the person in question has acted straight for years, and never had any kind of gay feelings, it'd be exceptionally unusual for them to suddenly want to be in a gay relationship. Yet I can believe a person might be gay, just for one person. in fact, I wrote a novel about that idea. In this case, I think the two people had been friends for years, and initially the straight character just did it to make the gay friend happy, but enjoyed what was happening and was so sexual, he went along with the ride (for awhile).

I have a good friend who lived with another guy for about 5-6 years, but eventually his partner left him for a woman, got married, had kids, the whole deal. And my friend told me his partner had never had a gay relationship until they met. So it does happen, but I think it's very rare. In that case, my friend told me he believed his ex-partner had had gay feelings for years but just never acted on them, so he may well have been bisexual from day one.

[Cole Parker]

Let's pretend for one moment I am 100% straight (or 100% gay if it makes you happy). I go through life loving people of one gender in a Eros sort of fashion. One day I meet someone who's so perfect I think they're "the one" only that person happens to be the same sex. Does that mean I turned gay? No. I think that's horseshit. I think if you're honest with yourself you're primarily Gay/Straight and maybe now and again someone of the other persuasion just has what you need to complete you.

It's hard to pick who you love. Love happens. It's not created. In fact, I see a story there.

When you write this story, perhaps, if you're honest, the person that represents 'you' in the story, the one who discovers someone of the same sex that attracts 'you', turns 'you' on, fulfills 'your' needs, completes 'you', will do what so many people do. He will go with the values his upbringing has inculcated him with, the values that are so strongly supported by most elements of the society he lives in, and reject that possible love and completion. He'll just move on, denying himself the chance for that once-in-a-lifetime relationship, because it's just so much easier to ingore his attraction as wrong for him.

Isn't that what usually happens?

I certainly accept your premise, that most anyone can be attracted to most anyone else. But after that initial attraction, that's when all the other garbage society throws at us takes over.

C

[Rad]

Wow, thanks guys for promt replying

I have known people who were gay for only one person.

Anyway, I found this claim made by DesDownunder is the most intriguing one.

So, people can be gay for only one person and complete straight for another person?

As for myself, I found myself subscribing to the belief that all human beings are born free of sexual thoughts...

That is, we're born bisexual.

Our society is the one that conditions us to choose opposite sex to love.

Now suppose all the kids were told that it's okay to love their (mostly) same-sex kindergarter pals?

I do believe that when you meet someone you fall in love with, you know which way you swing

Gay for only one person is plausible then...

Cheers!

Rad

[The Pecman]

As for myself, I found myself subscribing to the belief that all human beings are born free of sexual thoughts... That is, we're born bisexual.

I had the character in my novel, when asked about it, simply say, "hey, I'm just sexual. I'm not into labels."

I absolutely, 100% believe that under the right circumstances, any human can have sex with any other human. It might be a desert island/end-of-the-world situation, but it could happen.

On the other hand: Howard Stern has occasionally brought up to straight members of his radio show, "what if you were on a desert island, and you were there with Beatrice Arthur (or some other unattractive woman) and Brad Pitt. Which one would you have sex with?"

Most of the guys are completely unwilling to give an honest answer. Most of them just say, "oh, I'd kill myself" or "I'd just masturbate." But I think the reality is pretty clear.

[Tragic Rabbit]

Can someone turn gay? Like, all of a sudden?

Honestly I have never read any study about that.

The CDC and Harvard Law have done numerous studies on the subject. The consensus is that, yes, a person can 'turn gay', but the process is complex and highly unlikely to occur accidentally.

For one thing, it involves watching Sound of Music 27 times in a row while drinking fruity wine coolers and wearing tight pants.

TR

[Trab]

On the other hand: Howard Stern has occasionally brought up to straight members of his radio show, "what if you were on a desert island, and you were there with Beatrice Arthur (or some other unattractive woman) and Brad Pitt. Which one would you have sex with?"

The real question to me is, "Which of them would have sex with ME?"

For one thing, it involves watching Sound of Music 27 times in a row while drinking fruity wine coolers and wearing tight pants.

Finally, the answer I've been looking for. So THAT's how it happened.

[DesDownunder]

If you see "The Sound of Music" as it was meat to be seen, in a thousand seat cinema with a huge curved screen in Todd AO, 70mm and six Channel Stereophonic (non-Dolby version), then it will turn you gay in 7 screenings. The 27 figure only applies to modern cineplexes.

You need 127 viewings for any effect from watching it on TV, and even then it is doubtful it will have any lasting effect.

On the other hand: Howard Stern has occasionally brought up to straight members of his radio show, "what if you were on a desert island, and you were there with Beatrice Arthur (or some other unattractive woman) and Brad Pitt. Which one would you have sex with?"

In my case, the best I could hope for would be that the two of them used me for a mattress.

[The Pecman]

Just to add another thought about this: a guy I knew for years in the 1980s and 1990s had a longtime partner (and still does, as far as I know). When we shared coming out stories in the mid-1980s, he mentioned to me that he never thought he was gay when he grew up. In fact, he had no real sexual thoughts at all. He occasionally dated women, but remained a virgin for years.

But he went in the Navy when he was 18. While on shore leave in San Francisco, he got drunk and wandered into a gay bar (he says "by mistake"). He wound up having sex with a guy, and really enjoyed it -- to the point where he decided to stop dating women. He eventually wound up in a longtime relationship with a guy, and is very happy.

I quizzed him several times about how I thought it would be impossible for somebody to be completely unaware they had any gay thoughts. But he insisted that it was only when he went into the gay bar that "the light went on." He acknowledged that he was so far in denial, he never had a conscious thought about it until that moment.

[Trab]

It can happen, believe me. I had the odd gay thought throughout my life, but my brain actually suppressed the information from my consciousness. It was only when I discovered my AS that I delved into my memories to see what impact that may have had on my development and growth as a person, that suddenly a whole flood of memories suddenly overwhelmed me. None of these had been available to me before that, and I didn't even know there was anything missing, but there they were. Dozens of small instances of attractions and near instant suppression from as early as about 10 years of age.

With the exception of a single kiss from a girl, which I had remembered throughout my life as tasting vile, I had been not only celibate, but essentially asexual, never having acted on any of those thoughts or feelings, or desiring to, although I must say it would have been impossible to act on something immediately suppressed from consciousness.

So, from my perspective now, I'd say you don't just turn gay, but you may well turn aware of your gayness. I also recognize that my situation is probably far from common, and that any other supposedly 'wrong' thing about yourself could trigger something like this repression. It's far from ideal, but I guess it's probably better than suicide, but regardless, it's not a conscious decision to suppress; it just happens. I doubt that one could consciously do something like that.

[Cole Parker]

I read something a couple of messages ago and am too lazy to go back and look who wrote it, but it said or asked something about is one gay if he only loves one person, one male person?

That's interesting, isn't it? Is a person heterosexual is he loves one woman and isn't attracted to others? I've always heard it said a man was heterosexual if he loved members of the other sex. If a man was attracted to women, and loved women, he was straight. Is it the same with gay men, that they are gay only if they love and are attracted to other men, not man?

This whole labelling thing has always concerned me. I think many of us don't fit exactly with what the labels are supposed to tell us. It's like stereotyping. One doesn't fit all. Everyone is a unique individual with personalitiy traits that differ. It may be more convenient to say we're gay, or straight if that fits, but I think it's frequently true that the label has flaws. I think it's better to say that than to say the person has flaws if he doesn't fit the label.

What an interesting and deep topic.

C

[Graeme]

One big problem with this discussion is the definition of the words used. Many of the posts seem to look at the actions to decide if someone is gay or straight. That's wrong -- homosexuality isn't actions, it's reactions. It is how we react sexually when we see someone. We might find ourselves attracted mainly to males, or mainly to females, and that will give us an indication of what is our basic sexuality.

However, we can then choose to act or not act on that attraction.

I believe myself to be gay. However, based on a lot of the posts above, most of the people here will take me as straight, as I am in a heterosexual relationship. The reality of the situation is that I am acting straight for one person (my wife). It took me a long time, but I've finally accepted my sexuality and it gay, regardless of appearance. Don't get me wrong, I love my wife and I have no intention of leaving her. That doesn't stop my base attraction being towards other males, not females. I have made a conscious decision to stay in my heterosexual relationship, despite my basic sexual orientation.

I remember reading a discussion on liberal vs conservative views on homosexuality, and one of the things that was highlighted is that the two groups use different definitions for the one term. The liberals look at orientation, which aligns them with most scientists. The conservatives look at actions, and hence you can have an 'ex-gay' movement because if you don't act on your orientation, then you're not gay. My view of the later is that that means that I'm neither gay nor straight most of the time, as most of the time I'm not having sex....

[Trab]

You have a really good point, Graeme, and a quick look at the asexual forums will show that they too have this divide between actions and feelings in their definitions. Sadly, it really does seem to be a case (or many cases) of the label wagging the dog. (I love broken and/or mixed metaphors)

[Bruin Fisher]

It can happen, believe me. I had the odd gay thought throughout my life, but my brain actually suppressed the information from my consciousness.

Hey Trab, I was thinking I might have been the only one! My teenage sexual experience was exclusively gay but from young adulthood until about three years ago I knew (if I cared to think about it, which I didn't) that I had gay thoughts and occasionally did gay things, but despite this never entertained the thought 'I am gay'. I kept myself very busy all the time to prevent myself thinking too much...

With the exception of a single kiss from a girl, which I had remembered throughout my life as tasting vile...

I remember a kiss like that. Yuk. I suppose the fact that I never really managed any straight thoughts or actions should have given me a clue...

So, from my perspective now, I'd say you don't just turn gay, but you may well turn aware of your gayness.

Yup, that's what I think too. I think it's possible for someone to be so self-deluded that they play out a complete heterosexual lifestyle and they may or may not at some point suddenly realise they've been living a lie. I don't think they just turned gay, I think they just woke up to it.

Bruin

[aj]

I think it's possible for someone to be so self-deluded that they play out a complete heterosexual lifestyle and they may or may not at some point suddenly realise they've been living a lie. I don't think they just turned gay, I think they just woke up to it.

I have a very dear friend that I grew up with who is just going through this very experience. He had a lot of homosexual type experiences as a boy, but then put them away when he 'became a man' and entered into a straight marriage, and adopted two special needs kids with his wife.

A few years later, she ran off with her lesbian lover and divorced him, leaving him to raise the two kids alone. Then, years later he met Wayne, his first male lover of his adult life, when he was 45 or so. His relationship with Wayne was essentially done in by his ultra religious family, and he has finally reached a place where he's like "F it. I'm not Bi, I'm gay and it's time to get on with my life." I've been writing to him and giving him support and advice ("Dude, kick your family to the curb!" kek!) for a couple years now. It's been a fascinating process, watching him wrestle with and finally gain a grip on, his sexuality.

cheers!

aj

[aj]

I think it's possible for someone to be so self-deluded that they play out a complete heterosexual lifestyle and they may or may not at some point suddenly realise they've been living a lie. I don't think they just turned gay, I think they just woke up to it.

I have a very dear friend that I grew up with who is just going through this very experience. He had a lot of homosexual type experiences as a boy, but then put them away when he 'became a man' and entered into a straight marriage, and adopted two special needs kids with his wife.

A few years later, she ran off with her lesbian lover and divorced him, leaving him to raise the two kids alone. Then, years later he met Wayne, his first male lover of his adult life, when he was 45 or so. His relationship with Wayne was essentially done in by his ultra religious family, and he has finally reached a place where he's like "F it. I'm not Bi, I'm gay and it's time to get on with my life." I've been writing to him and giving him support and advice ("Dude, kick your family to the curb!" kek!) for a couple years now. It's been a fascinating process watching him wrestle with, and finally gain a grip on, his sexuality.

cheers!

aj

[Rad]

I have a very dear friend that I grew up with who is just going through this very experience. He had a lot of homosexual type experiences as a boy, but then put them away when he 'became a man' and entered into a straight marriage, and adopted two special needs kids with his wife.

A few years later, she ran off with her lesbian lover and divorced him, leaving him to raise the two kids alone. Then, years later he met Wayne, his first male lover of his adult life, when he was 45 or so. His relationship with Wayne was essentially done in by his ultra religious family, and he has finally reached a place where he's like "F it. I'm not Bi, I'm gay and it's time to get on with my life." I've been writing to him and giving him support and advice ("Dude, kick your family to the curb!" kek!) for a couple years now. It's been a fascinating process watching him wrestle with, and finally gain a grip on, his sexuality.

cheers!

aj

Wow man, that really is one great story. What did his kids do when they found out that dad is gay? I hope he's fine now & has found another lover :)

[colinian]

The Day I Turned Gay

It's embarrassing to admit this, but I actually did turn gay. I know exactly when it happened, to the day. As of today, August 27, 2008, it happened 6,854 days ago. It was very traumatic. I can't remember the circumstances, but my mother was there at the time and she?s told me some of the details. My father even took a couple of photographs. When it happened I was a complete mess. I wasn't ready to meet or talk to anyone, but that didn't dissuade people from coming to visit. Fortunately, my parents were circumspect and didn't expose that I turned gay to anyone.

Even though I have no memory of the events of that day any longer, I can look back with pride. I accept the fact that I turned gay. In fact, I embrace it. It's the best thing, the single most important thing, that has ever happened in my life. If I hadn't turned gay I would never have met Doug, who I love with every molecule of my body, every thought, every breath. If I hadn't turned gay on that day, I wouldn't be able to be in love with Doug. I wouldn?t even be alive.

Colin Kelly

[Bruin Fisher]

As of today, August 27, 2008, it happened 6,854 days ago.

Brilliant, Colin. I read it, mouth agape, and only after reading it did I wheel my maths into play and worked out you've been gay for nearly nineteen years... so you didn't have a great deal of time to explore being straight! I hope you didn't cause your mother too much trouble. It must have been awkward for both of you, going through such a traumatic experience, and not even in your own home but in a hospital!

Bruin

[Tragic Rabbit]

I probably 'turned gay' the first time my parents took me to a musical theatre production. (No, not CATS )

Actually, I've always (as in being aware as a preschooler that I felt attraction and romantic love for members of both sexes) been bisexual, though I now use words like 'queer' or 'pansexual' when not just saying, 'yeah, I'm gay'.

After meeting me, not too many people seem to wonder and/or ask, though...

Wasn't Hillary killer last night? A real statesman.

TR