Lurid Details of Your Sex Life

[Tanuki Racoon]

Okay. Have at it boys and girls. Answer the above and remain anonymous. Or, if you want, be brave and leave some comments.

I'm going to answer tomorrow. I just thought I'd liven things up.

[Cole Parker]

I expect raccoons have rapacious, immoral and ultimately wasteful sex lives.

Tell me I'm wrong.

C

[Tragic Rabbit]

I more usually refer to myself as Queer, rather than bisexual, but that wasn't an option.Queer (that's capital Q) indicates more than 'orientation'. I'm also not sure that orientation itself is fixed for life, particularly when you do like more than one type of person. Some guys I know are very specific in who they'll have sex with: color, creed, age, make and model of car, etc, others not.

If pressed, I'd call myself Gay before Bisexual in most situations but that's because of the prevailing 'wisdom' that there are no bisexuals, just people/men in denial. I am not in denial, I am bisexual but don't want to give the impression that I'm afraid of the word 'Gay' or in any way wish to distance myself from other gay people or the so-called community.

However, as the years go on, I am less and less inclined to attempt relationships with women. Sex dreams are still pretty evenly divided. No idea what any of it means.

Perhaps a division between bisexual and biamorous would be helpful--I am not sure I've ever been in love with a woman, for instance, but definitely do, even now, sometimes find them sexually or tactile-y (is this a word? wanting to touch their hair or skin) attractive. I used to date women more often but some of that might have been more art appreciation than sexual orientation. And even now, many of my friends are women and I enjoy their company.

I definitely think the virginity concept is one that would need subdivisions, but I voted with the age that I first had what I would, then and now, call 'serious' sex with another person--my high school boyfriend. I was aware that my tastes were nonstandard long before that, indeed long before I could articulate that fact and prior to puberty. I also participated in sexual situations before that age, so, again, virginity does need a definition to answer the question well.

'Primary sexual experience' might mean what was important to you or me, while taking this Poll, or might mean statistics. I'm not sure that ties in well, or not in all cases, because someone can be gay as a a goose yet never, or seldom, actually have sex with another man.

As a bisexual myself, I can definitely say that bisexuality is often invisible...you are seen as gay when with a same-sex person and straight when with the opposite sex...that's how people evaluate you. Even though it's not true. Who you are with that day, month, year, lifetime doesn't necessary indicate the limits of your sexual potential.

Also, when talking about sex, numbers get tricky...like when asked how many lovers you've had before...a seriously loaded question to which there is almost no correct response, even if you know the answer. Not knowing the answer isn't what they want to hear, either. I think they want to know that you've had about the same experience quantity that they've had, not too much more or too much less, and that's some tricky calculus, especially when you throw in bisexuality or kink...or anything else that complicates the equation.

Maybe our primary sexual experiences are those we engage in within our own heads...and may be the ones least likely to be spoken aloud.

Kisses...

TR, still sick but attempting to write coherent sentences...

[Cole Parker]

TR makes excellent points. What this sort of questionaire does, more that anything else, is make us think. These words don't have hard and fast definitions, and give us fits trying to define them for ourselves. It's like the labels people use. They only fit a little bit. Or not at all. Humans are as varied as the colors in the spectrum. I think every questionaire that I've ever seen, I've simply scratched my head and honestly said, "I simply can't answer this," or, "I don't know what this means."

C

[Trab]

I noticed the lack of both gay and straight asexual in the list.

[Camy]

Labels. You can't escape them.

And what is losing your virginity? Is it penetration, or is it cumming at the hands of another? Hmm?

I lost my virginity to a girl at 18 or to a guy at 14. In hindsight I wish I'd been more of a tart at school. There was a lot I missed out on. Though I'm forever grateful I was on the stage crew.

[Tanuki Racoon]

I expect raccoons have rapacious, immoral and ultimately wasteful sex lives. Tell me I'm wrong.

You are SO wrong in this case it's not even funny.

[Tanuki Racoon]

I noticed the lack of both gay and straight asexual in the list.

You identify yourself as gay or straight in part one.

Then you tick the appropriate boxes in part two. (Conflicted/Other)

Voila, you have your appropriate desired category.

[Tanuki Racoon]

I am fascinated by the talk.

First: Bisexual is perfectly valid. You can love people and be attracted to people of both genders. I can easily name members of both sexes I am attracted to -- though just because I am attracted to them doesn't mean I'll have sex with them. (Though if you read the blogs here, you must admit Hoppi's thumb is very enticing*....)

Secondly: I certainly intended for people to argue about virginity. Some people define it as intercourse. Some people as when someone else causes you to ejaculate in a sexual fashion. Some people require that to be in a partner's orifice. Since some people have lost their virginity before puberty, every definition is probably wrong. This is one case where it IS all about YOU. Age, again, it's what YOU consider. This isn't scientific. But I wanted to get people talking intelligent about a topic. I'm good at it in case you hadn't noticed.

I've voted now so my answers are mixed in, though I certainly won't share them except to leave you guessing.

* That's humour. No lectures. Dammit.

[Trab]

"I wanted to get people talking intelligent about a topic. I'm good at it in case you hadn't noticed. "

Maybe, but your English sucks. "talking intelligent", indeed.

Isn't virginity essentially religious in nature? Pure thinking and impure thinking about the Lord, and His creations, etc.?

Mind you, if that's used as a defining factor, heathens and the non-religious are either totally virginal all the time, or never ever.

[Trab]

Those who say statistics never lie haven't looked at THIS poll. 1 claims to be a virigin, and yet under Not Yet there is a zero. Hmmm. A heathen virginal mathematician?

[blue]

I'd have a really hard time answering the 2nd and 3rd questions, because they're too fuzzy for my experience. I'll take a shot at clearing up why it's fuzzy.

-----

Uh, before that, though, I have a comment or two.

Bisexual? That seems perfectly plausible, maybe even more likely to be the truth than exclusively gay or straight, for a lot of people. I don't think being bi is being in denial about being gay. If someone likes the opposite sex, physically and emotionally gets turned on by them, and also has that for the same sex... that's bi, that's not denial. If someone doesn't get his/her motor going for the opposite sex but says he/she is bi; well then that's denial.

As far as liking girls or guys as friends, that's not to do with sexual orientation, IMHO. To me, sexual orientation is whether you'd like to have love and romance (the emotional/spiritual component), and sex (the physical component) with what genders. -- I like girls, but junior high was the last time I had anything approaching a serious sexual attraction to a girl.

-----

OK, so what would I say about those questions?

Question 1 is fine, unambiguous enough, but I concede Trab's point that some ppl are asexual to some degree. However, I'd say that, if you'd like to be in a relationship (physical love and/or non-physical love) but aren't, that's being sexual. Asexual, to me, would be to prefer no sexual/love relationship, or to avoid it to such an extent that it's the result. Um, and if a person isn't with someone, but engages in solo activity, I'd say that's not asexual, it's simply missing out.

I'm a gay male.

Question 2:

What constitutes "sexual experiences?" Dating? Making out (kissing, petting, etc.)? Masturbation? (Alone or mutual?) Some form of intercourse (Tab A in Slot B)? A sexual dream (wet dream)? -- To me, all those are sexual experiences in one form or to some degree. Right?

So, my answers would be incomplete in most cases. -- Uh, I had dated girls a few times, but my real sexual experiences have been either with a very few guys (as a pre-teen and teen, before going in the closet) and not yet after coming out. -- Solo experience, actual or in my head (awake or asleep) is gay. Only twice have I ever dreamed about being with a girl. Guys are what do it for me.

Question 3:

Virginity? Again, as with 2, what constitutes that? I'd say physical, real contact. If you reach orgasm by stimulation from physical contact with someone else, you could argue that's losing your virginity. (Yes, so all you guys who played around with other boys...well, so what, if you liked being together, who else should care but you and him? Ditto for girl/girl or boy/girl.) Do you say that losing your virginity involves intercourse of some kind? Which kind? Manual, body contact, oral, vaginal, anal? -- A biggie: How does being the top or bottom, pitcher or catcher, affect whether you lost your virginity? -- Some people would say "losing your virginity" means vaginal or anal intercourse. What about oral or manual or other body contact?

I'm not gonna comment too specifically about myself on this one, as that gets pretty private. -- One instance, I wish had worked out differently, and others, I wish had been more. As in, more to them and more of them and more often. But I was really shy and unsure or in denial, and then went into the closet. Heh, I'm mostly out, but getting beyond that to a relationship is taking awhile. I will get there, but it takes getting over all that time being in the closet, and finding out how to work out everything. Some things, you can only learn by doing.

How you define "virginity" would determine whether I'm a "virgin," and would determine when a classmate of mine lost his virginity too. I wish, for both our sakes, we had known more and been less uptight or scared, of each other and ourselves. ...And that goes a long way to explaining why it's taking me awhile to throw the ball or ride the bike, by way of analogy.

I didn't think I was going to make personal comments. It's been ages since I've said that much, and that may be the most specific I've gotten.

For readers out there, whatever your background and however you're looking at the questions, I hope my way of answering will help explain that there are a lot of variations to relationships.

A few people who visit forums like AwesomeDude may be trying to understand themselves or people they know and care about. The answer I'd give is simple: Accept and care about the people you like and love, including yourself. If you're worried whether the person you're concerned about will be happy as a gay or bi or lesbian or whatever kind of person, I'd say: be concerned instead with whether they'll be truly happy without that part of themselves in their lives. If that is who they are or who you are, then let them (or yourself) be true to that full self.

Yes, I wax philosophical. Call it an occupational hazard.

Be good to each other out there.

[R.J.]

The questionnaire made me wonder if we have female members. Or authors. Hmmm...

As for labels, when asked, I tend to go with what the dictionary defines the word to be. It's much easier.

[JamesSavik]

Comments:

1) rapacious slut is missing from the choices

2) those of us that are exclusively gay prefer the term purebloods

[Tanuki Racoon]

1) rapacious slut is missing from the choices

Sorry. I could have put "Paris Hilton" as an option but I thought it would cheapen things.

2) those of us that are exclusively gay prefer the term purebloods

So that makes me a mudblood? :(

[The Pecman]

I'm still stunned that more than 30% of the respondents claim to have lost their virginity before the age of 12.

Sure, I had some minor sexual experiences when I was 11 and 12, but I wouldn't exactly call that "losing my virginity." (Or losing my religion, either.)

This is all like the infamous Bill Clinton case where people get into a whole discussion of what sex is. To me, the moment bodily fluids and orgasms are involved, it's a sexual experience -- not necessarily penetration. But virginity... to me that's a whole separate subject.

[Tragic Rabbit]

The questionnaire made me wonder if we have female members. Or authors. Hmmm...

Yes, we have/had both though there may not be an active AD female author at the moment (I've been out of the loop for health reasons). No question that we do have female readers on the site.

There are extremely well liked authors who are female, though not AD Authors and/or not writing at present: Savoir Faire and Java Biscuit are both female and have multiple stories on BoN, though neither are writing at present, at least under those names.

Some AD authors may have more female readers than others but I suspect all authors are read by our female forum members and non-members who read on the AD site. I know that some of Tragic Rabbit's most devoted readers are female, for instance. Drawings, including the one of Angel de la Torres here in my AD icon, were done by a female fan of Drama Club.

Are you thinking just generally or wondering whether females would lose or define their virginity differently?

TR

[R.J.]

Are you thinking just generally or wondering whether females would lose or define their virginity differently?

Nothing nasty just wondering.

[The Pecman]

Savoir Faire and Java Biscuit are both female and have multiple stories on BoN...

Really? I'm stunned. Savoir Faire was one of the best authors I've ever read on Nifty, and I went out of my way to champion his/her stories for inclusion on the B.O.N. list. I had written S.F. to compliment them on their work, but never heard back, so I had no idea what their situation was.

If you have a more current email address, I'd sure appreciate it -- or if you can point me to some of their more recent work, under a new name.

[blue]

About female readers and authors: Women like reading or writing about gay men, in the same way that (straight or bi) guys like things about lesbians. It's fantasy and wish fulfillment in one sense. It's a genuine interest and caring for people who are somewhat different, in another sense.

I guarantee, if you've seen gay-friendly fan fiction, you've seen some women writers who write about male-male relationships.

If that seems surprising, as in, "but... how can a woman understand a man's self and love?" then, consider that we're all human. One of the things I already knew about women, and what I should've known about being gay, is that we aren't ultimately that different. We do have differences in ways of thinking and feeling, in how we get there, but the feelings and thoughts aren't all that different. Same species.

Back in the "bad old days," women writers in certain genres, and men writers in other genres, weren't accepted readily. So men wrote with female pen names for romance and some other genres, and women wrote with male pen names for science fiction and others.

So you have well known women like Andre Norton, C.J. Cherryh, and James Tiptree Jr., for instance. Andre Norton wrote as Andrew North a few times, before using her real name. "Andre" was ambiguous enough that she could do that. C.J. Cherryh's writing style is often "masculine," but "C.J." is an abbreviation for a very nice womanly name. James Tiptree Jr. was a pseudonym, pure and simple.

On the first general forum I joined (for Farscape fans) I was mistaken for a woman often enough that I added "Ben W." to my sig, to be clear. (The W., I added, because the lead actor is a "Ben," and I then got asked if I was him!) It seems I was sensitive and caring, and... aww, shucks, but I'm a guy, ladies. Package, moustache, and all. Haha. It puzzled me, because I don't think I sound girly or fem, but it was often enough, I had to concede they saw something there in my writing style.

My point is, a writer has a distinct tone to his or her writing. A good writer can sound masculine, feminine, or anything in between, befitting the style he/she needs to get across, and the subject matter.

My apologies to anyone who takes issue with my use of "masculine" and "feminine." "Mixed gender" or "gender-neutral" are also fine.

A good writer can write a good tale. So yes, there are very classy women out there writing about gay men and gay women, just like there are very classy men out there writing.

Hey -- enjoy the good writing the authors here and elsewhere on the net are giving us. They are VERY much appreciated. Without them and their stories and poems and essays, we'd all be less entertained and less informed, and less whole, as people and as a community.

Good reading!

Have fun writing, all you authors, we love ya!

[Cole Parker]

To me, the moment bodily fluids and orgasms are involved, it's a sexual experience

Well, certainly. But so is hand holding when you're 12. It's a sexual experience. You have sexual feelings. It's arousing. Perhaps not when you're 22, but certainly when you're 12.

Many sexual experiences are mental as much as physical.

Ones that involve fluid exchanges and orgasms are pretty highly charged, richly developeed sexual experiences. But when you're young, the earlier, nascent experiences are heady as hell and just terribly, terribly exciting.

C

[Graeme]

I'm still stunned that more than 30% of the respondents claim to have lost their virginity before the age of 12.

Sure, I had some minor sexual experiences when I was 11 and 12, but I wouldn't exactly call that "losing my virginity." (Or losing my religion, either.)

This is all like the infamous Bill Clinton case where people get into a whole discussion of what sex is. To me, the moment bodily fluids and orgasms are involved, it's a sexual experience -- not necessarily penetration. But virginity... to me that's a whole separate subject.

The problem is that the phrase "losing your virginity" is not clearly defined. This means that everyone comes up with their own definition. You've give yours -- but that's not my definition. My first sexual experience was prior to the age of 12, so that's what I checked. By your definition, I was still a virgin after that encounter, but that's not the way I defined it.

[Cole Parker]

To me, losing your virginity means having sexual intercourse. Of course, I learned the word and the meaning in the Victorian age. I suppose it could mean something entirely different to others.

This discussion highlights one thing: words mean different things to different people. It's no wonder communication is so difficult. We think we know what the other person is saying, and we think they understand the point we're making, and often neither of us has a clue.

C

[Trab]

Oh no, Cole. Not true. The speaker (or writer) knows what they are saying, it is the listener or reader who may not have a clue. In speaking, it is not easy, but there is a solution: feedback. In writing, that doesn't really exist, so it is much more important to choose the least ambiguous of words. On the other hand, this ambiguity can be used to advantage when addressing a mixed readership, as your choice of words can make it that nobody is likely to take offense.

[Cole Parker]

Thanks, Trab. YOu made my point. I meant that neither has a clue -- to what the other person means. Not that he doesn't have a clue what he means. But, I didn't write it that way, thinking the message was clear without that further redundancy. You showed me it wasn't.

C