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Bruin Fisher

US/UK Usage

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Hi all, I'm looking for help.

When reading US-set stories, I occasionally come across the term 'hard cider'. It's not a term in use in the UK, and since I'm based in Somerset, which is locally considered the home of cider, I'm wondering if any of you settlers from the colonies (!) could tell me what you mean by 'hard cider' - and is there also a 'soft cider'?

Here in the UK, cider (occasionally spelled cyder) is a very popular drink made by fermenting apples. It is roughly as alcoholic as beer, but usually a bit sweeter. There are lots of variations, dry cider, sweet cider, cloudy, clear, and the local 'scrumpy', 'rough cider' or  'farmhouse cider' which is sold in half-gallon flagons, and tastes of cat's piss, and is capable of stripping paint. Traditionally it's always made from apples, although pear cider has recently become popular, and also ciders flavoured with other fruits such as strawberries, but those are still based on fermented apples, I believe.

Any info will be much appreciated!

Bruin

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Hi, Bruin.  I was all set to wax wordy to give you a recipe for our "colonial cider" but, as usual, I discovered Wikipedia had beat me to the punch (er, cider, not punch):  Apple cider (also called sweet cider or soft cider or simply cider) is the name used in the United States and parts of Canada for an unfiltered, unsweetened, non-alcoholic beverage made from apples. Though typically referred to simply as "cider" in those areas, it is not to be confused with the alcoholic beverage known as cider throughout most of the world, called hard cider in the US.

Hope that helps.  Drink on.

James

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Thanks so much my friends for clarifying this for me. So what you call cider we in the UK call apple juice, sold on the same shelves as orange juice, cranberry juice, pineapple juice, grapefruit juice etc.

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And then there's apple cider vinegar. 😖

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I thought I'd understood, but perhaps not...

So there's a difference between apple juice and cider? What's the difference, then? Further delving into Wikipedia reveals the following:

While some states specify a difference between apple juice and cider, the distinction is not well established across the U.S.Massachusetts makes an attempt to at least differentiate fresh cider and processed apple juice: according to its Department of Agricultural Resources, "apple juice and apple cider are both fruit beverages made from apples, but there is a difference between the two. Fresh cider is raw apple juice that has not undergone a filtration process to remove coarse particles of pulp or sediment. Apple juice is juice that has been filtered to remove solids and pasteurized so that it will stay fresh longer. Vacuum sealing and additional filtering extend the shelf life of the juice."This still leaves unfiltered apple juice that is no longer raw in a gray area, presumably cider but not labeled as such. The addition of sweeteners or reconstitution from concentrate are left even grayer.

Bruin Befuddled Brit. In the UK cloudy, unprocessed apple juice is sold as apple juice, and filtered clear apple juice is also sold as apple juice. Both come in clear bottles so the consumer isn't in any doubt which they're getting.

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13 hours ago, Bruin Fisher said:

Bruin Befuddled Brit. In the UK cloudy, unprocessed apple juice is sold as apple juice, and filtered clear apple juice is also sold as apple juice. Both come in clear bottles so the consumer isn't in any doubt which they're getting.

It's all marketing hype, on both sides of the pond.

Colin  :icon_geek:

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Read the label of American apple juice and you'll find various sweeteners and preservatives.  Also a great uniformity of taste between suppliers.  It's also clear and usually a light coppery color.

Cider comes in a great variety of tastes and doesn't normally have the cloying sweetness of apple juice.

They often give you apple juice when in the hospital.  I guess their reasoning is, you're too sick and weak to protest.

 

C

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Other reasons apple juice is popular is that it's cheap, it's a way of letting kids (and adults) consume sugar without realizing that's what they are drinking. Of course, it varies a little by brand, but a good general measure (courtesy of Google) is there are 24 grams of sugar in one cup of apple juice. 4 grams of sugar = 1 teaspoon. So 24 grams of sugar is 6 teaspoons of sugar. That's what's in one cup of apple juice. There's 1/2 of a gram of dietary fiber in a cup of apple juice. There's 2/10 of a gram of protein in a cup of apple juice. 88% of a cup of apple juice (actually 88% of any amount of apple juice) is water. A cup of apple juice has 115 calories. One cup of apple juice has 96mg of Vitamin C, 160% of the daily recommended amount.

Some brands of apple juice also have preservatives to keep it fresh for a long time.

Think about that.

Colin  :icon_geek:

This has not been approved by the Juice Products Association

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Beware apple juice reconstituted from concentrate.  If it isn't shelved in the refrigerated section of your market I'd really worry about it.  Of course, thanks to Colin, I'm now going to worry about all of it.  Better to stick to beer.

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5 hours ago, Merkin said:

 Better to stick to beer.

This has my vote.

Apple juice is disgusting, even worse than the apples it is made from.

There are only three thing apples are good for: apple pies, apple sauce to go with roast pork, and fermenting into (hard) cider , although in the latter case I would recommend steering well clear of scrumpy (see Bruin’s post above).

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This might add to the confusion, but here in Australia we have apple cider which is sold in supermarkets along with the other juices and soft drinks. It's non-alcoholic. We probably have the alcoholic variety, too, but I don't drink alcohol so I wouldn't know.

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4 hours ago, Alien Son said:

This might add to the confusion, but here in Australia we have apple cider which is sold in supermarkets along with the other juices and soft drinks. It's non-alcoholic. We probably have the alcoholic variety, too, but I don't drink alcohol so I wouldn't know.

We have apple cider (non-alcoholic) in our supermarkets in the USA, too. It doesn't look like apple juice; the color is darker and you can see it has fiber so it has to be shaken before pouring. We don't buy either kind.

Colin  :icon_geek:

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23 hours ago, Pedro said:

There are only three thing apples are good for: apple pies, apple sauce to go with roast pork, and fermenting into (hard) cider , although in the latter case I would recommend steering well clear of scrumpy (see Bruin’s post above).

As a chef, and one operating in an establishment that probably makes somewhat off-beat foods—that's only a supposition on my part!—you should be aware there's another great dish you can make easily with apples that goes great with various pork dishes.  Pare and slice up your apples, preferably tart or somewhat tart ones, as you do if making an apple pie and the toss them into a frying pan with a little melted butter and saute them till soft after sprinkling them with sugar, a pinch of salt, and cinnamon.  Fried, spiced apples.  Easy as anything, and man, are they good as a contrasting dish with chops, cutlets, medallions or however you're serving your pork.�

C

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On 3/8/2019 at 9:34 PM, Cole Parker said:

As a chef, and one operating in an establishment that probably makes somewhat off-beat foods—that's only a supposition on my part!—

You flatter me. I was never more than a cook - simple fare like steak pie, gammon and egg and chips (fries) with everything. It was twenty years ago before pub food started to go ‘bistro’ and now you do need a chef. Still, I have a couple of nice  Bramleys - the British cooking apple - and some pork loin steaks so I shall give your recipe a try. It sounds good especially with the cinnamon in it. Thanks.

 

Thread drift - don’t you just love it. Comparative definitions to recipe swapping in a few easy moves.

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On 3/10/2019 at 7:38 PM, Cole Parker said:

I firmly believe eclectic is better.

C

I'd agree that thread drift is often wickedly good. On the other hand it does make it difficult to find a post you might want to re-read. For instance: I'd never think to look in 'US/UK Usage' for a post on Pedro's culinary skills.

And (drum roll), it's back to the thread:- Pear Cider is scrumptious, as is good home made scrumpy ('ware the morning after). Apple mead ain't to shabby, either.

C2

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We made both apple mead and straight out honey mead at home when I was a kid.  At age 12 I learned not to snatch a bottle in mid-ferment for my own, hide it in my room, and CAP IT to hide the smell.

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A couple of years ago the son of a distant cousin of mine who had moved to the States in the 1960s came over to find out where his family had come from. He came with his wife and their two sons, aged thirteen and fifteen. For part of their stay in the UK they had hired a holiday cottage in the Peak District. The day they arrived at the cottage they drove to the nearest market town to buy groceries. Amongst which they purchased some two-litre bottles of various drinks for the boys. Amongst their selection were two bottles of Strongbow cider. Whilst in town they noticed there was a concert on that evening, for which they booked tickets, the boys declaring they would prefer to stay at the cottage and watch TV.  

Late that evening, after they had been at the concert, they arrived at the cottage to find two very intoxicated boys. It had never occurred to them that something labelled as cider could be alcoholic. 

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I wonder if the boys had a clue before their folks headed off to the concert. They certainly must have noticed when they took the first sip, though!

Colin  :icon_geek:

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9 hours ago, colinian said:

I wonder if the boys had a clue before their folks headed off to the concert. They certainly must have noticed when they took the first sip, though!

Colin  :icon_geek:

Actually, Colin, you may have a point there. The oldest boy had been over a couple of years before with his grandfather. I would not be surprised if he had found out that in the UK cider is alcoholic and that Strongbow is potent.

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